I just bought a p 17 endfield rifle made by Charlie oneal and from what I read it was Charlie Oneal and elmer Keiths rifle ,It was made In 1943It is in excellent shape .I have the dies for it and about 600 bullets.I am buying a bullet sizer for it.I read in Elmers books about this rifle its been to Alaska ,Africa and Elmer shot ten elk with it.It was the cartridge the 338 win mag was madxe from .I was wondering if there are any more of these guns around .This is the only one I can find .

It seems as if the .333 OKH enjoyed some limited popularity in the 40's and early 50's, so there must be a few more of them still around. Do I recall correctly that it was pretty simply a .375 H&H necked to accept a .333 bullet?

It was never clear why the trio settled on using the odd .333" British bullet when the existing .33 Winchester used the same .338" diameter that ultimately became the standard for .33 cartridges.

Its the shortened version same as 338 win mag.The 334 okh is the full length version close to the 340 nweatherby.The regular 333 okh was on the 30-06 case.They used .333 bullets because its the only hard enough bullets at the time .I am getting a 333 bullet sizer that downsizes the 338 to 333 .Its so awesome to get this gun.I been a huge fan of Elmer Keith all my life from age of ten.He was way ahead of his time .I cant wait to hunt with this gun.I will put some Kane chaps on it to protect the stock.It only looks ten years okld but the action is 99 and whole rifle made ion 1943.

Okay, thanks for correcting me on the two cartridges. And congratulations on owning such a unique rifle.

Neat rifle, how about some pictures please

Sounds like a very interesting rifle. Can the bullet sizer only size down lead core bullets? I'm assuming monometals and anything with a solid partition wont work in it?

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
I just bought a p 17 endfield rifle made by Charlie oneal and from what I read it was Charlie Oneal and elmer Keiths rifle ,It was made In 1943It is in excellent shape .I have the dies for it and about 600 bullets.I am buying a bullet sizer for it.I read in Elmers books about this rifle its been to Alaska ,Africa and Elmer shot ten elk with it.It was the cartridge the 338 win mag was madxe from .I was wondering if there are any more of these guns around .This is the only one I can find .

Congratulations! That's a rare find.

dgr416,

First congrats on a somewhat historic find.

Now I'm scratching my head. Didn't Elmer do some sort of 33 cal on the 9.3x74 case?????

Mark

338-378 KT perhaps...?

Where's the pics?
without pics it doesn't exist.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

It was never clear why the trio settled on using the odd .333" British bullet when the existing .33 Winchester used the same .338" diameter that ultimately became the standard for .33 cartridges.

Elmer state in his book `Safari`(1968) that .333cal bullets made before WW2 was good bullets. He experience a 300grain .333cal bullet from Kynochs after WW2 penetrate poorly on soft skin game in Africa. So I would conclude Elmer choose the .333cal heavy 300grainer when wanted deep penetration from the better bullets of pre-WW2 period.
Ofcouse when Elmer started out with the .333OKH there wasn´t a 300grain .338cal available. Only .333Cal bullets for the Jeffery round was their option. Later I believe Elmer was looking at the longrange ballistic aswell with the 300grain .333cal versus 300grain .375cal.

And not to forget. Elmer like the long 156grain 6,5 Schönauer bullet which I believe inspired him to see a beefed-up performance using the long Jeffery bullet.

Seems like I remember an article that told of having .338 bullets reduced to .333 by center-less grinding. It thinned the jackets just enough to expand well at the lower vel too.

This post brings back memories. In about 1972 or 73 a close friend bought a 333 OKH done by O'Neil that came with documentation. The seller, who had lived in Alaska and moved to the "lower 48's" said it worked great on Moose. Included with it were an abundant supply of .045" thick jacketed Barnes 275 gr. bullets as I recall. Near us was a construction site where they had "trenched" an area for some now forgotten purpose however the side-wall that was exposed was solid damp clay. We thought it would be interesting to shoot into this clay and compare the 333 to my 375 H&H which I had loaded with 300 gr. Hornadys. The 375 blew a hole about 10 to 12" in diameter and maybe about that deep. While this has no basis in science we were suitably impressed until touching off the OKH... The hole was something like 2" to 3" in diameter and over 2 feet deep! There was one box of either .028 or 030" thick jacketed Barnes which we subsequently loaded and Fred used on Elk but I never forgotten this experiment. Keith believed in heavy bullets and deep penetration and I'm sure the .045" jacketed bullets would provide such, maybe even approaching solids. He never hunted with the thicker jacketed bullets but I always wondered how things would have turned out. Good luck with your piece of Americana...

Yep Elmer made a 338=74 for ruger 1 and had a rifle made for it . My bullets are barnes 300 gr from long ago and i have a box of .333 speer 275 grain and a bunch of speer 200 gr .333 .The draw dies can be used on partitions but not solid copper or bronze bullets .I talked to Dave Corbin about drawning bullets down.Its $175 for die but will pay for itself quick.I shot it the other day didnt kick shot dead on.I will see if someone can put pics on here >i want to write an article or two about it too.Elmer Keith was way ahead of his time on everything he did.I just wish I could have meet him.I have all his books signed but one and some of his letters too.I am going to deer and bear hunt with it and take it back to Alaska .

This thread rekindles my wondering if the 334 OKH was actually the first .333 based on the H&H case.
I have a Griffin & Howe 333 Super Mag. which is also made on the full length H&H case but could be prior to the OKH.
Does anybody know this chambering?

dgr416,

Yep! 338x74R. Answered my own question yesterday. You say it used a 333 bullet though?

Mark

Mark, the OKH cartridges used a .333 bullet but the later KT and the .338x74R used .338's.

Yes! That is what I remembered.

THX

I called rcbs about the 333 okh belted and asked about dies even though I had the set that came with it..They had made a set 20 years ago and a set in 1954 and one before that.I looked on ebay and had been told they had seen a set on there so I bought them asap just in case.I stuck the first once fired 338 win mag case in it .I guess its a new case only deal.I am going to buy the drawning dies to reduce bullets from 338 to 333 .I also have to buy an h style press to do that .I am going to put a new Nikon scope on it my eyes don't like this redfield that's on it.The cross haits are the T post.I am going to start loading 200 grain bullets with imr 4350 about 10% below 338 win mag.I have to replace the recoil pad its gone rotten from age.I want a nice thick shotgun style on it the length of pull is short for me was probally perfict for Elmer Keith.I shot it once with the loads that came with the rifle its so heavy it does not kick.I hope to hunt deer and bear with it this fall and back To Alaska next year with it .

About 1960 I had O'Neil build a 333OKH Belted for me. The case was a 275 Magnum case with expanded neck.
Sorry I let it get away,

I recall reading an article wherein the author had a bullet die that would reduce .338 Win. bullets to .333....I pretty sure that would just be a one pass operation with my heavy as hell Hollywood press.

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
Yep Elmer made a 338=74 for ruger 1 and had a rifle made for it . My bullets are barnes 300 gr from long ago and i have a box of .333 speer 275 grain and a bunch of speer 200 gr .333 .The draw dies can be used on partitions but not solid copper or bronze bullets .I talked to Dave Corbin about drawning bullets down.Its $175 for die but will pay for itself quick.I shot it the other day didnt kick shot dead on.I will see if someone can put pics on here >i want to write an article or two about it too.Elmer Keith was way ahead of his time on everything he did.I just wish I could have meet him.I have all his books signed but one and some of his letters too.I am going to deer and bear hunt with it and take it back to Alaska .

This may sound strange but when you come back up to Alaska, if you go to Cabelas in Anchorage, as you are leaving the men's room, you will see a large black and white framed photo on the wall of Elmer with a large bull moose and a woman (presumably his wife) in the background. The rifle in the picture may well be the one you now have in your possession.

Yep he took it to Alaska and Charlie Oneal took it to Africa .He also shot ten elk with it .I cant wait to hunt with it and take it back hunting in Alaska .I need to get the bullet die I just have 200 grain bullets I think speer ,275 grain speer Elmers favorite and the 300 grain barnes bullets .I cant wait to size some partitions and accubonds .I shot it only once so far I am behind making brass and reloading for it .I might take apart some old Winchester silver tip 250 grain 338 win mad loads and chamge them into 338 okh belted loads .This is my favorite old rifle from my favorite Author !

This is pretty cool Quality Cartridge company is using firded case from my 333 okh to make new brass for it.I dont know how many rifles exist in this caliber not many.I am lucky to have found two sets ofg dies for it !I am putting a new recoil pad on it the old one was white from age.I had to put a new ejector on it also.A new scope and sling is next in line and start hunting and shooting it !

In Elmer's memory, use only 275 or 300gr bullets. He liked them heavy for caliber :-)

That lady in the photo, Sep, probably is Mrs Keith. IIRC Elmer was hunting from horseback with her along the Slana River in a snow storm on the last day of the moose season (30th Sep?) when he shot a big bull. He was using a .338 mag with 300gr Winchester bullets.

Now, maybe he shot big moose while out with other women but, had they been clients, they would have taken the shot and been up front in the pic.

As to his choice of .338 projectiles, he didn't mind 250-grain Noslers, either, as I recall.

I have some of his bullets for this gun and hate to shoot them.I.have about 300 of the 300 grain Barnes bullets ,one box if Speer .333 diameter 275 grain which was his favorite in.this gun and the 338 win mag.He had lots of bullet failures with.the 300 grain..333 kynoc bullets which blew apart I..his .333 okh.which is I. The 30-06 case .He had Fred Barnes make these 300 grain .333 bullets with.thicker jackets .I.have about.300 .333 200 grain bullets .Quality cartridge company is making brass for the 333 okh belted from a fired case from my gun pretty cool.This gun was built.in 1943 and went to Alaska and Africa some time between 1946 and 1958 not exactly sure on dates just read what Elmer wrote about it.I am.putting.a new recoil pad and ejector on it and new scope the old Redfield on it will cut you quick .It's an awesome gun .ow I gotta buy the bullet swagger to reduce them from .338 to .333 I can't.wait to.hunt.with it !