The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 7mm Remington Magnum or 7mm Weatherby?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
I have decided to forget the brake on the 340 Weatherby and buy a rifle without a brake. Is the Weatherby's 200 fps worth the hassle? | ||
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I wasn't aware that there was a hassle with the Weatherby. Of the two cartridges I prefer the 7mm Weatherby because of the longer neck. I am not a fan of the Mark V, although it's a matter of taste, since it is a perfectly fine rifle. My tastes run more toward Winchesters and Sakos. One of those in the Weatherby chambering would be the best of both worlds. | |||
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Thanks Ray  | |||
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Yea your right, Redding makes both a neck sizer and body die for the 7mm Weatherby. | |||
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Get the Weatherby...cause why not? Otherwise you might as well just get the 280 Ackley. | |||
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I think Lee would make a custom collet die as well. I have no experience with the Redding neck size die. What do you guys prefer, Lee collet or Redding? | |||
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Im not a 7 Rem fan as I can get real close to a 7 mag Rem with a 270 ro 280 without all the fuss..I would opt for the Wby, but I would also suggest your were on the right track with the 340 and a muzzle brake..Personally I like the .338 Win in a Ruger African with the brake and brake thread cover that gives me the choice of a brake on the range or without it while hunting..but in truth, Ive gotten to where I never take the brake off... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Redding, but I like RCBS dies as well as any die. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have a 240 and 257 weatherby, both customs. And I have a Rem 7MM mag. All are terrific cartridges in my view. Nothing wrong with the wby 7MM. Is it better than the Rem 7MM? Slightly, but whether that’s enough To buy it is your call. Factory ammo will be more expensive and not as prevelant. If you hand load, that’s less of an issue. Brass will also be more expensive in the Wby. NRA Patron member | |||
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I am thinking the recoil of the Weatherby will be at the edge where I don't have to buy a brake. STW might be too much. I can shoot the 7mm Remington Magnum mighty fine so even three hundred fps quicker hotloads in the Weatherby should be tolerable. But my rifle aspirations are put on hold. I first need to load for the 270 Winchester. Accubonds are on the menu.  | |||
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I may be totally wrong on this but it seems ;like that the 7mm. Weatherby is not any better than the 7mm. Rem Mag ballistically and requires more powder to achieve the same results. I am probably wrong on that. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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No, you're not wrong. The case capacity of the two is essentially identical. The primary difference is that the Weatherby version usually has a long freebore which both requires additional powder and can be detrimental to accuracy. Factory loads for the Weatherby are loaded to higher pressures (and therefore velocity), but who uses factory loads? Handloaded to the same pressures one will do what the other does. However, a 7mm Magnum seems neither fish nor fowl. A smaller bore is better for high velocity/long range shooting of medium game, while a larger bore is better for heavy game like elk, moose, and the big bears. The 7mm magnums are an unhappy medium that can be bested by both the larger and smaller bores. | |||
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The outfitter I have hunted elk with off and on since 1992, swears that he has witnessed more elk shot and lost with 7mm Rem Mag's than any other caliber. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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That's probably because it is a very popular caliber, so your outfitter would have had a lot of clients using it, meaning that there are more chances for an animal to be lost with that caliber. I've also seen a disproportionate amount of 7mm Rem Mag ammunition which is sub-par in a number of ways, which may contribute to the failures he's observed. But please don't misunderstand: A 7mm Rem magnum is fully adequate for elk; it's just that a .30 or .33 magnum carries more authority for an 800-pound animal, if more authority is what you're looking for. Similarly, a .25-06 or a .270 will take a whitetail or a pronghorn just as dependably at just as far a distance as the 7 magnum without as much recoil or bellowing so loudly at the muzzle. I suppose there's an argument that a 7 magnum will cover both the big and the little for the person who only owns one rifle, but who wants to be that person? Besides, having worked with both of them for the last half-century, I'd pick the .30-06 over a 7 magnum if I were consigned to the hell of being a "one-gun man". | |||
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I think you are right concerning the 340 Weatherby. I was thinking a muzzlebrake would degrade accuracy. A Vais should still shoot half MOA. | |||
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His theory, for lack of a better term, was that the hunters did not work with the gun enough to be comfortable with it and therefore handicapped themselves. I owned a tang safety model 77 Ruger in .7mm Rem Mag for a few years and enjoyed it. Never did get a chance to shopot an elk with it, but I thiuthink it would have been more than adequate for the job. Just my belief but I think the biggest problem some folks have is that they simply do not spend enough time working with a gun to become confident with it. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I think you are right concerning the 340 Weatherby. I was thinking a muzzlebrake would degrade accuracy. A Vais should still shoot half MOA.[/QUOTE] I've owned 6 muzzle braked rifles. Five in 338 Win Mag and one in 300 Win Mag. All shot submoa with their preferred loads. I don't believe a properly manufactured muzzle brake will have any impact on the accuracy of the rifle itself. | |||
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In my experience with the 7 Remington Mag over the last 38 years, mine has been sort of a squirrel as I get up to the power level that separates it from the .270 Win, or the .280, both of which I own, or have owned. Everything I read and hear leads me to believe that the 7mm WBY will easily do 200 to 300 fps faster than those two lesser cartridges. The long neck is appealing. It should be the cat's ass for 160-grain Partitions and Accubonds.  | |||
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just searched this old thread and may want to add a comment. I acquired a used accumark recently (7mm Weatherby) at a very attractive price. It was in great shape and appeared to have a very good trigger job on it. I acquired a Leupold VX5 HD 3X15X44 to mount on it (outstanding scope). I put together 4 different hand loads and went to my range with my Ohler 35. 1) Max load RL 25 (160 partition) load: 1/4"- 3/8" groups but not close to advertised velocity ~ 3050 FPS. 2) Max load of Retumbo (160 partition): 1/2" group. 3177 FPS 3) Sames as load #1 but 160 accubond. 3020FPS , 3/8" groups 4) Max load Norma MRP (160 partition). 3214 FPS; 1/4"-3/8" groups This may be the most accurate rifle out of the box I have ever shot. It did not matter the load, it grouped in 3-4 shot cloverleafs at 100 yds. That is with "hunting" bullets. Not target bullets. Scratch my head why someone let this rifle go. None of the "max loads" showed any signs of pressure. I reloaded all of them to load #4 and all retained tight primer pockets. The rifle is pretty heavy and definitely not a carry rifle over distance but it will shoot! EZ | |||
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I've had both. Started with a custom 7mm WBY, shot it for a few years and wanted a 7mm RM from Brown Precision so sold the WBY. Both shot anything I put thru them very well. I have one aggregate group from the Remington that measures 1.5 inches at 100 with 6 different loads and 3 different bullet weights. Would really like to get another Wby in a Mark V. I have a ClassicMark stock in my gun room that begs for a barreled action. Largest animal I've shot with a 7mm was a black bear in Alberta with the Weatherby and the 175 grain Hornady factory load. Dead bear. Everything else was deer sized game....whitetails, mulies, antelope, etc. When the animals get bigger, I go up in caliber. Had a set of Bonanza Competition dies for the Weatherby that loaded really accurate ammo. | |||
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Good to hear. Brakes are obnoxiously blasty shooting crutches. They're marketed to flinchers and lazy hunters who don't want to invest in the range time required to shoot the big calibers properly. 
Nope - nor generally the expense Weatherbys involve as against other suitable alternatives. Design-wise, the 7mmRM is actually a descendent of the old Brit .275 H&H cartridge, although the latter used somewhat heavier bullets. All The Best ... | |||
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Funny you say that. The one I hunted with for elk called them the 7 mangler. Don't know why seems like a perfect decent caliber and bullets. If some one said here's a elk hunt but you need a to use a 7mag I would jump at it. Heck I would use my 7x57. | |||
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200 FPS is basically 100 yds. In general a projectile with a decent BC will slow down about 200 FPS / 100 yards. The faster they go the faster they slow down. Just air friction increases. My personal perspective is I do note require all the nonsense in a modern scope if I have a flat shooting rifle. A good projectile that is fast is what I look for for game up to the size of Elk. Sight this rifle in for 250 yds. (~1.5" high at 100 yds with my scope centerline 1.75" above and anything out to 400 yds is easy (probably will not shoot beyond that range). The main thing regarding the post was the accuracy of the rifle. It just comes down to confidence. Perhaps debunking the old freebore dialog if it even exist any longer. If so, it had no affect on this specific rifle.
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IF the twist is 1-9, the reason to choose the Weatherby is to use heavier bullets. And, the nice long neck plus a generous freebore makes a standard chamber job attractive. I have a Mark V custom rebarrel (from .300 Wby with a brake) 26" long and 160's are nice and accurate. I picked the 7mm Weatherby because I intended to handload. FWIW, factory load shoots faster than what's on the Federal box. Cheers! Barry _______________________ | |||
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If I had it to all over again I would just have Weatherby hunting calibers. And I would sure have it in 7mm Mag. I like it. It is different and it has the velocity. Yes it is "only" 200 fps. Hey 200 fps IS 200 fps. One thing was after years of loading for the 7mm Rem Mag and not for my Weatherbys ( I just used Weatherbys ammo ) I started loading for the 300 Weatherby Mag. What a peach and easy to load for. Somewhere here on AR and in one of the threads one of the members said something once like it is easy to load for the 7mm RM - the hard part is to do it at true mag velocities. That is true in my own findings. If I didn't already own lots of 7mm Rem Mag dies and brass I would have rebarrelled my Model 70 Laredo to 7mm Wby already. | |||
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I owned a .7mm Wby Mag for about 30 years. I killed mule deer, antelope, wild boar, elk, and black bear with it. Only thing I didn't like about it was the price of the Wby ammo. Way too expensive IMO. I think the .7mm Rem will do everything the Wby does, with a cheaper operating cost. I would go with the .7mm Rem personally. I never noticed recoil from my Wby. It was a Mark V Deluxe and had beautiful wood. The felt recoil on it was actually less than a 700 Rem BDL in .270 that I owned at the time. The extra weight of the Mark V was noticeable after a long day of hunting in the mountains for elk. JMO BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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9 times out of 10 a larger case will be superior for heavy for caliber bullets. A 308 will keep up with an 06 nicely with 150-165 grainers, snappy and efficient, but move up to 180's + and the 06 really begins to shine. Same, same with 280 vs magnum cases. Personally I like the RM because brass availability is a walk in the park, I can get it on demand right down the road. Not so with the Wby. But BNagel makes some good points for the Wby. | |||
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Im not a 7 magnum fan, I am a 7x57 fan but anyone who sez the 7 mag is a wounder of elk is full of ca ca poo poo, the shooter is the failure..The big sevens are all excellent elk rifles. There are excellent outfitters and guides and stupid outfitters and guides, It runs about 50/50...  I know many outfitters in the Pacific Northwest that sit in a bar all year drinking and passing gas, then set up a camp a half mile from a highway, and pack clients in another route that takes 8 hours, client thinks in the wilds of Wyoming, and never notice the sound of 18 Wheelers..Make it easy to haul in supplies..Most of them have a line of BS par excellence.I will add that if a brake makes one shoot better then so be it, I know of a lot of guys out there that can't shoot worth a shit with any device and they need all the help they can get..Ive tried the brake with my .338 Ruger for the first time in my life and it has a thread protector so Ihave the option..I really like the brake and I can shoot any big bore without a brake, but now Im sold on them because they work so much better than the options..I also know that if one doesn't shoot enough throughout the year, recoil has to be delt with when you start shooting again during the course of the year..If one has shot a lot of big bores they know this to be true, if not they are gathering a line of bull hockey.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Absolutely agree with you there Ray. Just comparing velocities of various cartridges of the same calibre is not the answer. Taking a 140gr bullet weight and saying the 7mm-08/7x57 are only 100-150fps slower than the 280Rem/284Win meaning nothing to an animal, or that these 06 sized 7mms are only 100-150fps slower than a 7mm Mag with same 140gr bullet, again meaning nothing to an animal, is just totally missing the point. The 06 sized 7mms will shoot a 150gr bullet at the same velocity that the shorter cased 7mms can only ever do with the 140gr and likewise the magnum 7mms will shoot a 160-175gr bullet at the same velocity as the 06 7mms do with a 150gr. It is not the velocity where larger cases excel it is the heavier bullet, often with greater ballistic efficiency, at the same velocity which has the impact on killing animals. I have used a 7x57 with 140gr bullets, now use a 7mm-08 with 140gr bullets at 2900fps (Sierras), my German friend uses a 7x64 which with 150gr bullets should do 2900fps, but throughout most of my decades hunting I used a 7x61S&H (7mm Magnum) with 160 gr bullets at a chronographed 3000fps. That Sierra 160gr boattail bullet from that cartridge hits long and hard, I can tell you, the lessor 7mms just don't compare no matter how much anyone plays up the velocity with any given bullet, and animals do know the difference when hit with a heavier bullet. So Ray, I totally agree, anyone saying the 7mm magnums are wounders of elk or any hoofed animal is full of shit and obviously has only attracted poor shooters. | |||
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Many good points here. I always laugh when someone (often a guide) says that a certain cartridge wounds more. In the case of the 7mm RM it likely does but not because it comes with some magic power to do so. Up until recently the 7mm Remington magnum was by far one of the most popular cartridges starting in 1962. Because so many are being used it will statistically wound more game. But that's like saying a Toyota Carolla gets in more wrecks because there are more of them than any other car on the road. But the average guide only knows what he sees and like anybody else has his own prejudices reasonable or not. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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When I was young, you could not give me a brake on a rifle, today due to age I have a brake on my 338 and I love it..but they are butt ugly and I would prefer not to have one, but my has a screw on false muzzle, so I have the option. claimed noise? well I can't tell any difference, big guns make big noise, and I prefer the brake to a set of ear plugs that have no place in the hunting field..I see 0 difference in the 7 mag and the 7 Wby in the field only on paper.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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IMO that's  I enjoy prone practicing every week at the steel gongs at our range with my 7mm RM and/or my KDF braked .300 Weatherby. As a reloader, I opted for the 7mm RM over the Weatherby version because of the cost and availability of the brass. The 7mm RM has plenty of power for anything walking in the lower 48. In the mid 80s I took a friend moose hunting, and he made a one shot DRT kill with his 7mm RM on a bull that at that time was the 4th largest B&C moose in Montana. If I want more power than my 7mm RM I'll use my .300 Wby, and if I still want more power I'll use my KDF braked .375 RUM, which I hated without the brake, but now, with the brake, I have no problem shooting it prone. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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I actually did not post that comment. I tagged onto a few other comments. That being said, I do not completely disagree. I do not like brakes as I have seen them garner ice in Alaska creating a potentially very dangerous situation. No one likes being around you when you shoot. A good way to learn to shoot inexpensively is go to a stock tank way out in the country not close to anyone with a 22 and shoot at turtles in any position you want.If you can hit something the size of your thumb with open sights at 40 yds. you are probably good to go hunting big game if your rifle is shooting where it is supposed to. A lot fun as well.
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The 7mm Weatherby is probably the most underrated caliber in their lineup. You get the performance and trajectory of the 300 with the recoil and (rough) powder consumption of the 257/270. Sure, the 7mm Remington Mag is everywhere and much cheaper, so if buying ammo at Walmart or some back country store is in your future, the Weatherby might not be the best choice. I'd say it depends on the rifles you're interested in. If you can find a smoking deal on a nice Mk V rifle, I'd take it. _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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I am jumping into this one a little late, I have had a few 7mm Rems and 1 stw, never the Weatherby. I have also had a few 280s and 1 AI, That STW was a great rifle, i shot a .17 inch group 3 rounds at 100. And once feeling really cocky i vporive a thumb tack with at 100. No bull i really did. But i have decided I like the 7 mag best of the rounds mentioned. The new Nosler 150 grain LR acubond has a crazy high BC. If you can get it out to 3200, and into an inch at 100, i bet you can hold dead on to well over 300. And i don,t want another round where you need 80 plus grains of powder. Thinking of trading my .257 Roberts Ruger MK2 RL for a good 7 mag...tj3006 | |||
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You can take a 7MM weatherby in their accumark 26" pipe. Load a Nosler 160 partition from data in the Norma loading manual(max charge 74.6 gr MRP)and get an average 3214 FPS across a Oheler 35 chrono. I did a little testing and bumped that charge to 75 gr. and achieved 3250 FPS. The spent shell did not show any optical signs of high pressure indications and the primer pockets were still snug after a reload. I suspect the Nosler 150 LR accubond will easily achieve 3200 FPS in this specific rifle. As stated previously it is the most accurate out of the box hunting rifle I have ever acquired.
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I burnt out 3 barrels on a 7MM Wea that I bought while still in high school. The long throat seems to cause faster barrel erosion and in my experience it was more difficult to develope an accurate hand load with the freebore, but it gets more velocity than a 7MM Rem. I think the answer is the 7MM STW. After the third barrel burnout I rebarreled it to 7MM STW and found a number of high velocity accurate loads for it with less experimenting. I gave that rifle to my son and got another built up on on a 700 Rem action with a fiberglass stock (Shilen barrel) and also found it easy to develope accurate high velocity loads. My opinion is that the freebore was a good idea way back when when the slowest powder was 4831 as it gave more velocity than without a freebore but nowdays with all the slow burning powders available freebore is not needed for high velocity. That is, a larger case is a better way to get more velocity. | |||
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I don't think there's spit worth of difference between the two. The original spec for the 7mm Rem Mag was 175g bullet at 3000 fps. Not much in North America that doesn't fall to that with proper placement. That being said I own a very used Mark V in 270 Weatherby and a Rem XCR II in 375 Weatherby. Both the 7mm Rem Mag and the 7mm Weatherby are great rounds. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 7mm Remington Magnum or 7mm Weatherby?
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