I'm in the planning stages of getting another rifle built was choosing between a 280 and a 284. they both have very similar performance but have heard that the shorter fatter case design of the 284 might give me more consistant shot to shot velocitys. if i were to build a 280 i might go to the 280AI and use nosler brass, and base it on a rem700 long action.

im unsure what sort of an action id need for a 284, i know id take a long action to get the most out of the case. but with the case being fatter it wouldnt feed reliably in a normal rem700 action or most normal actions designed for the slimmer 06 / 08 cases.

I will want the rifle to hold atleast MOA to 600yards, and id like to on a calm day to average 6" atleast at that range, prefer 4 or 5 inch 5 shot groups.

any reccomendations on the action would be great, is it worth getting a customed action, such as barnard which is made in NZ and can get them roughly half the price of a nesika. probably going to use a mcmillan stock and a shilen barrel, prob 26" and number 3 or 4 contour.

I have a 284 winchester on a short action and am entirely happy with it.

Mine is based on a Tikka M595 action,originally a 7mm-08 that I had reamed to 284. The magazine in this rifle will allow me to seat bullets out to an OAL of 3 inches. This allows me to seat most bullets so that the base of the bullet is level with the base of the case neck.

The magazine was easy to modify so that even with the fatter cases and the rebated rim, it feeds reliably 100% of the time. I did this modification myself and am sure that any smith who can do the rechamber job, should have no trouble modifying the magazine to feed reliably 100% of the time.

The 284 cartridge is one of the most under rated around, with load data in most manuals truely well below what this cartridge is capable of performing at.

You do not say exactly what you will be using this rifle for(targets, game etc?)but to maintain MOA out to 600 yards I believe a short action would be your best option.

A short action is slightly more conjucive to accuracy than a standard length action, not much in it, but the short action may just provide that little bit more in the accuracy stakes.

Even if you have to seat the bullets to factory OAL of 2.8 inches you will still be able to launch a 150 grain bullet at 3000fps+, a 160 grainer at around 2900fps+ and a 168 match king at around 2900fps. Any of these bullets will easially make it to 600 yards at those velocities and probably to 1000 yards without any drama.

7mm(284) is such a great caliber, superior to all commers when it comes to high BC bullets and long range work.

I think the 284Win, 280 rem and 280AI are all fantastic cartridges, but I do think the 284 win will be the winner in the accuray stakes

http://www.accuratereloading.com/284win.html
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/seven_092105/index.html
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/wildcat_0612/

Twenty years ago, I went through the same inquiry, build a 280 or a 284?
Both are equal as far as performance is concerned, and I opted for a 284, after a month of considering which way to go.
The 284 is a short action round, although mine is on a Mauser 98 long action. I had the action available, that's why my rifle is on a long action.
Can't say enough good about the 284. I like the case design, and my rifle shoots far better than I had hoped for.
Reloader 15 is THE powder for my 284, much better than the 4350 I used earlier for load developing.
284 all the way!!!!

Don

I think the ideal action is a medium one. By that I mean a 98 Mauser length. I built a 284 on an Argentine a few years ago. When I put the barrel on, I throated it long for the 160 gr Barnes seated to the base of the neck. The original loading for the 284 was a max length of 2.80 to feed through the magazine of the model 88/100 Winchester. With my seating and throat length, I can get an OAL of 3.10" or greater which equates to more powder, less pressure in my loads. The feed rails and sometimes the follwer will need to be modified but you will not look back on the project after that.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I think the ideal action is a medium one. By that I mean a 98 Mauser length. I built a 284 on an Argentine a few years ago. When I put the barrel on, I throated it long for the 160 gr Barnes seated to the base of the neck. The original loading for the 284 was a max length of 2.80 to feed through the magazine of the model 88/100 Winchester. With my seating and throat length, I can get an OAL of 3.10" or greater which equates to more powder, less pressure in my loads. The feed rails and sometimes the follwer will need to be modified but you will not look back on the project after that.Jim

ditto roger

It is being built to shoot game, but i also enojoy paper punching and thats where most of the shooting will be done. itll easily go through 500 rounds in its first year. if its shoots really well i might take it to a 1000yard range and have a go with it, but thatll require a bit of practice and a scope with a higher power than 14X!

i quite like the look of a 284 and it looks like a well rounded 7mm cartridge in my eyes

quote:

It is being built to shoot game, but i also enojoy paper punching and thats where most of the shooting will be done

The 284 win is an excellent choice for the game in your country. If you wanted to use it as a mountain rifle for Thar etc, then the easiest solution would be a Tikka T3 lite in 7mm-08 and have it reamed to 284W, like I did with my Tikka.

That may not be the best solution for long rang target shooting though, where a heavier rifle would make more sense. Then again I would reccomend the Tikka T3, this time using one of the Varmint models. Still light enough for field work and accurate enough to maintain MOA to 600 yards or so, if you are good enough. I'de hate to cart one up and down your hills though.

some day i will build a rifle on the .284. I am not sure what bore I will use but I like the case.
If I were going to build one I might go for a mauser action two.
I think the yugo would work, I am not sure if it would give you the acuracy you want, your standards are prety high for a milsurp action .
I think you would do prety well with the remington short action, the .284 is a shorter case thean the whatever X57 mauser. I would talk to a few smiths about feeding, I doubt it would be a huge problem. A Montana 1999 action should work for you too ! ...tj3006

I purchased a used browning lever action rifle in 284. love it. really kills deer.

Why not just build it on a Rem 700 action, stick a good barrel on, as well as a good trigger. Drop it all in a good glass stock, bed it properly and You should be in business.

I've had all three and now just have the std .280 and an AI thats pretty much as described above. Both are very accurate.

I get a kick out of the .284 on a LONG action "so I can seat the bullets out, and gain ALL that extra velocity". Do some testing, I doubt if you gain 40 fps.

FN in MT

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I think the ideal action is a medium one. By that I mean a 98 Mauser length. I built a 284 on an Argentine a few years ago. When I put the barrel on, I throated it long for the 160 gr Barnes seated to the base of the neck. The original loading for the 284 was a max length of 2.80 to feed through the magazine of the model 88/100 Winchester. With my seating and throat length, I can get an OAL of 3.10" or greater which equates to more powder, less pressure in my loads. The feed rails and sometimes the follwer will need to be modified but you will not look back on the project after that.Jim

ditto roger

Doesn't the post 64 CRF short actioned Winchester 70 have a 3.10" magazine? And then some can still be gained by removing/repositioning the "block" at the rear? Will cost less than redoing a mauser in the long run! Most fitting for a Winchester round, don't ya think?

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:
Why not just build it on a Rem 700 action, stick a good barrel on, as well as a good trigger. Drop it all in a good glass stock, bed it properly and You should be in business.

I've had all three and now just have the std .280 and an AI thats pretty much as described above. Both are very accurate.

I get a kick out of the .284 on a LONG action "so I can seat the bullets out, and gain ALL that extra velocity". Do some testing, I doubt if you gain 40 fps.

FN in MT

I was considering getting a long action rem700 action, possibly get it trued? use a shilen barrel mcmillian stock, glassbed it of course! and stick my leupold vx-3 4.5-14x40 LR b&c on it, i think thatll be enough scope for what i want to use it for.

unsure if the rails or anything will need opening up a bit to feed a little better but thats no biggy is it

Dear Paul:

I ran through the same thinking as you are doing now. I chose a 7x57 Ackley Improved over the 280 Remington, because it fit better into a Mauser 1898 action, and has given me approximately the same velocity. My Winchester brass 7x57 AI fired cases are only one grain less in water capacity than the unfired 284 Winchester cases that I used for comparison. Actually, I use 284 Winchester loading data in many cases for load development.

Like some of the prior commentary, I endorse the use of the 1898 Mauser action for either the 7x57 AI or the 284 Winchester, although I have not built a rifle using the rebated rim 284 Winchester case. Nevertheless, the 284 dummy rounds that I made up seem to line up and feed appropriately in my 7x57 AI, but not fully into the 7x57 AI chamber of course. I did expand my magazine box a bit at the shoulder for the 7x57 AI and this seemed dimensionally okay for the 284 dummy rounds, too.

I have found that my 7x57 AI likes slower powders even for the 140 grain bullet than are usually published though. Presently, I am using Re-22 for my 140-160 grain bullets that produce nice velocities. I use IMR-7828 for the 175 grain bullet. I imagine the 284 Winchester would operate in the same manner.

The only advantage that I see in the 7x57 AI over the 284 Winchester is the longer neck. I neck size mine down approximately 3/4 ths of the way. The 284 neck doesn't give you that much latitude. The advantage of the 284 Winchester is that you don't have to fire form your cases. To me fire forming is another excuse to go shooting!

You will have to do some feed rail work in an 1898 Mauser to get either of these cartridges to feed properly.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Ya know,
Might not be your cup of tea but a #1 Ruger would be agreat in the .284. I think I would want a 6.5X284...tj3006

just imagine a nice old 98 with DST's in 6.5-284 or the original 284 cartridge...an X57mm magazine box would allow you to seat the bullets out as long as you wanted...well over 3".

Rich
DRSS

I like the .284 and the 280 and its imp version. as a hunting caliber.

I like the .284 in my Savage 99 or in a Browning BLR, The .284 always feeds better in the lever guns. It requires some good deal of tinkering to feed 100% in a bolt gun, it has a recessed base and thats not a desirable feature IMO.

I would opt for a 7x57 long throated std. Mauser action, a 7x57 IMP, a .280 Rem or a
280 Imp. in that order. But the choice of caliber is up the person building the rifle, let it be your choice not someone elses, that way you will be pleased in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
But the choice of caliber is up the person building the rifle, let it be your choice not someone elses, that way you will be pleased in the end.

thats a very valid point


whats your reasoning for saying a lever feeds better than a bolt action with the recessed base. my 300WSM is recessed and ive never had a feeding issue with it.

Paul,

Your choice of a Rem 700 long action is a good one.
Although I said earlier that the 284 is a short action round, I am very happy with mine on a Model 98 Mauser long action. I can seat bullets any length I choose.
Jim is correct that the ideal length for a 284 action would be an intermediate length.

Don

quote:

284 always feeds better in the lever guns. It requires some good deal of tinkering to feed 100% in a bolt gun, it has a recessed base and thats not a desirable feature IMO.

Not true, it actually took me about 5 minutes to modify my 7mm-08 mag so that the 284win cartridges would feed perfectly through it.

I actually talked this over with the smith who did the rechamber and his answer was " not a problem, i've done atleast 50 Rechambers with this family of cases(284) and other rebated rim cases and never had feeding issues with any of them, nor were the magazines difficult to modify".

it seems to be harder over here to find a long action than a short action. as a lot of people like the 308 and the 7mm08. not a lot of people have a 30-06 but seems to be a few 270s around, but when ones for sale everyones after it.

i wont have much of a velocity loss if i put it on a short action will i? ill only have to make sure the throat is short enough i can stick one seated right out to the lands and still fit it in the mag?

tumbo, what exactly did you have to do to the mag to get it to feed properly?

quote:

tumbo, what exactly did you have to do to the mag to get it to feed properly?

Because the 284 win case is fatter and the rim is still the same diameter as the 308 based cases, the 284 cases need to sit higher in the mag. To do this in my Tikka M595 it was just a matter if carefully bending the feed rails out until the bolt picked up the rim of the case up every time.

I would talk this over with your smith/armourer, who is going to do the rechamber because some magazines may be harder to modify than others. My Tikka uses a detachable mag, so it was easy to modify.

quote:

i wont have much of a velocity loss if i put it on a short action will i?

I would suggest that you measure the internal magazine length of any prospective rifle/action, as some short action magazines have an internal length of around 3 inches or more, like my Tikka. If you find one that the magazine can take a cartridge with an OAL of 3 inches or more, then you will only loose an insignificant amount of velocity, or none at all over a long action.

Again I would check with your smith/armourer.

oh okay thanks for that.

im meant to be picking something up from the local gun dealer but he specialisings in reloading supplies and knowledge in that area. he knows a lot about building rifles too, ill have a talk to him about the things you mentioned

I have a 25-284 built on a remington 700 short action. It works fine, but I am pushing the magazine length. With 7mm bullets that are really long a medium action would be better.