What to do with tool-marked barrel

19 January 2016, 06:27

My father bought an original style or model (whatever) Ruger M77 in 7X57 back in the late 70's. I has a tool-marked barrel that coppers-up. As a result, or in addition to whatever other factors, it is inaccurate. I really like the rifle. It's the only Ruger M77 style I really like, and it is lovely in its clean, functional way. I also have shot a lot of deer with it, and would like to 'fix' it. What should I do? Could the tool marks be lapped out? Will a new barrel be needed? If I get a new barrel, I'll get it in a different caliber like 280 or 30 06. Ruger sold a shoddy barrel. Should they be included in this? Thanks

19 January 2016, 06:35

scottfromdallas

That was back when Ruger outsourced their barrels. You could try Tubb's bullets. I'm not sure they can work miracles on a really rough barrel but it's a cheap place to start.

http://www.davidtubb.com/final...finish-bulletkit-284

19 January 2016, 06:43

craigster

Have it rebarreled. If you've shot a lot off deer with it, it can't be all that inaccurate.

19 January 2016, 07:01

Luckyducker

How do you see the tool marks in the bore? If you can see them with a light while looking down the barrel with your naked eye the barrel will need replaced, but if the only way you can see them is with a bore scope you MAY be able to hand lap the roughness out of the bore. I have hand lapped a couple of rough bores that copper fouled quickly and horribly with very good results but these two weren't too bad. One was a Ruger M77 Mk II in 30/06 and the other was a Mossberg ATR in 270Win. Both of these rifles would shoot before lapping but with less than 20 rounds down the tube the accuracy went south quickly due to copper fouling. After hand lapping they would shoot more accurately and hardly foul at all, even with many more rounds fired.

SFD is correct, some of the barrels that Ruger bought during those years were not very good. I think it was a hit and miss as far as barrel quality with more miss than hit.

19 January 2016, 07:17

Sylvaneous

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
That was back when Ruger outsourced their barrels. You could try Tubb's bullets. I'm not sure they can work miracles on a really rough barrel but it's a cheap place to start.

I did that twice. It helped but didn't cure the problem. It's still an issue.

19 January 2016, 07:20

Sylvaneous

quote:
Originally posted by Luckyducker:
How do you see the tool marks in the bore? If you can see them with a light while looking down the barrel with your naked eye the barrel will need replaced, but if the only way you can see them is with a bore scope you MAY be able to hand lap the roughness out of the bore. I have hand lapped a couple of rough bores that copper fouled quickly and horribly with very good results but these two weren't too bad. One was a Ruger M77 Mk II in 30/06 and the other was a Mossberg ATR in 270Win. Both of these rifles would shoot before lapping but with less than 20 rounds down the tube the accuracy went south quickly due to copper fouling. After hand lapping they would shoot more accurately and hardly foul at all, even with many more rounds fired.

SFD is correct, some of the barrels that Ruger bought during those years were not very good. I think it was a hit and miss as far as barrel quality with more miss than hit.

Oh, yes, I can see them. Stuttering lines perpendicular to the axis of the barrel on the riflings. You just have to look down the barrel at an angle.

19 January 2016, 10:12

ColoradoMatt

If you handload, and use any of the 4350's, you might try ImR's 4451 Enduron powder. Very similar performance, and virtually no fouling in smooth bores. It probably won't completely cure your barrel, but it should help a lot. You might load up a few hundred rounds and shoot some prairie dogs. That would be more fun than fire lapping your barrel, and would probably give you a similar result.

Matt
FISH!!

Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984:

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

19 January 2016, 17:40

Jim Kobe

Handloading and lapping won't cure the problem. If you are not happy cleaning out the copper after every 5-10 Shots, put on a new GOOD barrel.

Jim

19 January 2016, 18:53

xausa

You might try fire lapping. There is a thread on this site describing a test done on several rifle barrels and giving the results: http://www.accuratereloading.com/fire.html

If you are interested in giving it a try, this organization sells fire lapping kits:
http://www.neconos.com/details2.htm

19 January 2016, 19:12

ted thorn

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Handloading and lapping won't cure the problem. If you are not happy cleaning out the copper after every 5-10 Shots, put on a new GOOD barrel.

Jim

^^^^
This

19 January 2016, 19:56

Leo L.

Send it to PacNor for a new barrel.

19 January 2016, 20:46

larrys

What Jim said! There is no sense trying multiple things over and over again with the same bad results. You do realize that is one definition of insanity, "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

There are lots of good barrel makers out there and lots of good people to install them. I would get both. Sometimes, you can pick up a good barrel from eBay. I got a Brux that way for little money, still in the wrapper.

20 January 2016, 05:14

custombolt

See ADDITION: at follow up post below mentioning the differences between 7X57 and 8X57. Sorry for my error below.

And then there's the re-bore option to a larger caliber. For example: I've heard 8X57's are putting down some decent groups with hand loads and JES Re-boring has a stellar reputation from what I've heard. Same case as the 7X57.

20 January 2016, 07:12

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by custombolt:
And then there's the re-bore option to a larger caliber. For example: I've heard 8X57's are putting down some decent groups with hand loads and JES Re-boring has a stellar reputation from what I've heard. Same case as the 7X57.

Good idea.

Kobe dose good work.

20 January 2016, 07:46

z1r

quote:
Originally posted by custombolt:
And then there's the re-bore option to a larger caliber. For example: I've heard 8X57's are putting down some decent groups with hand loads and JES Re-boring has a stellar reputation from what I've heard. Same case as the 7X57.

The 8x57 is not the same case as the 7x57. But, I'm pretty sure that the chamber will be cleaned up with an 8x57 reamer. Yes, the 8x57 is capable of excellent accuracy and is very capable on game.

20 January 2016, 07:47

z1r

quote:
Originally posted by bartsche:
quote:
Originally posted by custombolt:
And then there's the re-bore option to a larger caliber. For example: I've heard 8X57's are putting down some decent groups with hand loads and JES Re-boring has a stellar reputation from what I've heard. Same case as the 7X57.

Good idea. Kobe dose good work.

JES is not Jim Kobe.

20 January 2016, 08:31

craigster

Things may have changed, but the last time I checked JES does not offer 8mm/.323" re-boring.

20 January 2016, 17:57

Jim Kobe

quote:
Originally posted by z1r:
quote:
Originally posted by bartsche:
quote:
Originally posted by custombolt:
And then there's the re-bore option to a larger caliber. For example: I've heard 8X57's are putting down some decent groups with hand loads and JES Re-boring has a stellar reputation from what I've heard. Same case as the 7X57.

Good idea. Kobe dose good work.

JES is not Jim Kobe.

Corecto mundo! But I do good work. I still think it is a waste of time and money to rebore a barrel when you can get a good barrel to start with.

20 January 2016, 18:42

jeffeosso

Firelap it twice and see if it improves .. if not replace the barrel.

20 January 2016, 21:22

Duckear

quote:
Originally posted by xausa:

If you are interested in giving it a try, this organization sells fire lapping kits:
http://www.neconos.com/details2.htm

Holy cow is that a crappy, hard to read website!!!!

20 January 2016, 23:42

Smokin Joe

Why don't you just have Ruger rebarrel it for you?

21 January 2016, 02:52

TX Nimrod

Posters should read the whole thread. The OP already fire lapped his barrel twice without success. The least expensive route will be to have Ruger rebarrel the rifle. Current barrels are hammer forged, don't know about any fitting the old M77. Next is a custom barrel, the sky is the limit on cost. The more you pay for the barrel the smoother the bore will be as the better barrels are hand lapped.

.

21 January 2016, 04:19

Atkinson

If it were mine, Id stick a Lothar Walthar barrel on it and be done with it..Never had a less than awesome LW barrel..

21 January 2016, 07:29

Snellstrom

quote:
The least expensive route will be to have Ruger rebarrel the rifle.

I didn't know they would do that. Please tell me what you know about this.

21 January 2016, 07:45

dpcd

You call up Ruger and ask them if they will still fit a barrel to a Model 77, tang safety model. It's that simple. They probably won't change calibers though; You can ask them. Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.
Customer Service Department
411 Sunapee Street
Newport, NH 03773
Telephone: 336-949-5200 /

21 January 2016, 20:11

custombolt

ADDITION: Thanks for pointing that the cases are not exactly the same Mike. I just looked at the case specs. Do you see these differences as causing issues when switching from 7X57 to 8X57? The .006" narrower rim width suggests the need for a extractor replacement for the 8X57 unless the current 7X57 one has a lot of flex with the case in place. The thicker rim bears mentioning as well. Again, thank s for pointing out my error.

quote:
Originally posted by z1r:
quote:
Originally posted by custombolt:
And then there's the re-bore option to a larger caliber. For example: I've heard 8X57's are putting down some decent groups with hand loads and JES Re-boring has a stellar reputation from what I've heard. Same case as the 7X57.

The 8x57 is not the same case as the 7x57. But, I'm pretty sure that the chamber will be cleaned up with an 8x57 reamer. Yes, the 8x57 is capable of excellent accuracy and is very capable on game.

21 January 2016, 21:35

dpcd

Yes, absolutely, you can make it an 8mm. There is more tolerance allowed in the brass than .006. Certainly no extractor change needed.
But, for resale, the 7mm will outsell an 8 ten to one. More like 100 to one.

22 January 2016, 04:56

custombolt

True. Few folks appreciate the 8mm Mauser. I've never had a re-bore done. Seems much less costly than a new barrel to re-bore IF the caliber stamp can be filled in and re-stamped nicely. Plus, I find keeping the otherwise original matching barrel very appealing. Different strokes. Damn shame anyone should have to spend a penny to right Ruger's butcher job.

22 January 2016, 07:14

Joe Henderson

A good barrel will help a lot. If you send it to Jim Kobe get him to bed it as well. It will be money well spent.

just my .02

Joe

22 January 2016, 07:20

dpcd

I will give you an 8mm barrel for free. That is how valuable they are. I use them for reinforcing bars in concrete.

22 January 2016, 15:57

Slowpoke Slim

Ruger has gotten "funny" about these kinds of things lately. They may only offer to replace the rifle with a new one.

I would just have it rebarreled by a good gunsmith and be done with it.

26 January 2016, 21:11

custombolt

I bet you have a nice pile of them. Let me guess, all stepped contour 98 Mauser barrels? In the old days, the local gunsmith put a like new military take off on a '09 Argy action for me and charged $30, head spaced and ready to go.

quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
I will give you an 8mm barrel for free. That is how valuable they are. I use them for reinforcing bars in concrete.

01 February 2016, 04:41

buckeyeshooter

quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
You call up Ruger and ask them if they will still fit a barrel to a Model 77, tang safety model. It's that simple. They probably won't change calibers though; You can ask them. Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.
Customer Service Department
411 Sunapee Street
Newport, NH 03773

Ruger has discontinued all service on the tang safety guns.
Telephone: 336-949-5200 /

05 February 2016, 06:06

Sylvaneous

Thanks for the advice, folks. I don't have anything against the 7X57 and would really appreciate it if Ruger could pitch-in some to fix the problem they sold my dad. BUT, if I go the re-barrel route: I don't live terribly far from Shaw barrels, not far from Pittsburgh. I'd rather drive it that box and ship it. But I'd get a different caliber. 7X57 is too much like my 308. Prolly 280 A.I. Closest to a 7 Mag I can get with this action and without getting a new rifle. Again, thanks.