The nostalgia bug has bitten me again and I want some practical knowledge. I want to develop an "old time" turn of the century load for my .30-`06 Browning 1895 rifle using a 200 to 250 grain RN bullet. I'd appreciate any personal experience with bullets in this weight range at velocities below 2400 fps, especially for the Barnes 250 gr, Hawk 200 gr, 220 gr, or 250 gr (which jacket thickness?), North Fork 200 gr, and Woodleigh 220 gr.

The late Grancel Fitz shot just about everything with the 220 gr bullet in the 30/06. That would be a traditional choice.

A turn-of-the-century 220-grain load for the .30/'06 would be at around 2300-2350 FPS. The 220-grain .30 caliber round-nose bullet at 2200-2400 FPS is a very deadly short to medium range load!! Even on little animals like whitetail deer.

If you're gonna do that, why not throttle back just a tad and shoot heavy cast bullets like 311299. I used to shoot them in my 30/06 and they were more accurate than anything I could run down the barrel and PLENTY effective as a hunting bullet.

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A well placed bullet is worth 1,000 ft/lbs of energy.

Harald,
Here are some interesting old quotes about the 30-06;

In John Taylors book; "Rifles of less power and smaller bore than the .318, with the sole exception of Holland's "Super 30" (.375-.300) and the American Springfield .300, loaded in either case with the 220 grain bullet, should never be used on any but the very smallest animals in Africa"

I also have a copy of "A Treasury of Outdoor Life" and in it there is an article written, "Horseshoe Luck", about E. C. Haase shooting a world record mountain goat, in 1949, with a "brand new sporting rifle" in 30-06. He used the 220gr bullet. He says the goat was about 400 yards away and the wind was blowing a gale. The third shot nailed the goat.

Here's some Jack O'Connor quotes from "Gun Book"

"After my experience, particularly with the Remington 180gr pointed soft-point Core-Lokt 30-06 bullet, I've concluded there's no need in America for a bullet giving greater penetration. In the Yukon I once put four of those bullets, rapid fire, right behind the shoulder of a big, rangy grizzly that measured 7' 7" from tip of nose to tip of tail as it lay dead. The bear was on a sandbar, and every bullet fired went clear through him and cracked against rocks on the far side"
"For the heaviest African antelope, like the eland, or for knocking over big Bengal tigers or stopping charging African lions, the 220-gr. bullets make the 30-06 a real rifle. Stewart Edward White used the 30-06 on dozens of lions, his bullets being the old Remington 220gr delayed mushroom and the Western 220gr boattail with only a pinpoint of lead exposed. He felt that for this work, the 30-06 so loaded was superior to the .405 Winchester."

Jack also gives a load for the 220gr Western boattail as; 52gr dupont 4350 powder, and claims it was very accurate.

It seems as if I am not the only one here who has been impressed by the performance of the Old Warhorse, but I don't believe most current (conventional) bullets peform like they did a century ago. I think they are probably much harder. Has anyone used the 220s or similar types?

Terry P and Harald,
Since we are going to qoute the Old Masters, let me quote from a 1st edition of both volumes of Small Arms Design and Ballistics by Townsend Whelen.
In the chapter, "Wounding Effect and Killing Power", page 154: "With 180 grain expanding bullets at M.V. 2700 f.s. it is very suitable for all American big game to 350 yards. A very satisfactory cartridge, and time tried in the hands of many prominent sportsmen.
With the 220 grain bullet at M.V. 2300 f.s. and over it is regarding by many as a little more reliable than the 180 grain bullet on wapiti, moose, and large bear."

From the horses mouth.

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Harald, I have not only used the 220 in the '06, but also in the .308 Win. with 48 grains of MRP. This .308 load was devastating on deer in VA, at very short ranges in the heavy woods. I used both Remington and Hornady RN 220 grain bullets with lots of exposed lead. Never saw a deer move over 5 feet after being hit with a 220-grain load. One of the largest brown bears ever killed was taken by Harold McCracken in Alaska (in 1916, I believe) with a .30/40 Krag M95 Win. using 220-grain loads. These moved even slower than in the '06.

Just wading around the archives, I thought this thread might spark some interest in fellow forum members, since it highlights the good old 06 and my beloved 220 grain Round Noses...

cheers and enjoy...
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by Harald:
The nostalgia bug has bitten me again and I want some practical knowledge. I want to develop an "old time" turn of the century load for my .30-`06 Browning 1895 rifle using a 200 to 250 grain RN bullet. I'd appreciate any personal experience with bullets in this weight range at velocities below 2400 fps, especially for the Barnes 250 gr, Hawk 200 gr, 220 gr, or 250 gr (which jacket thickness?), North Fork 200 gr, and Woodleigh 220 gr.

When you say "turn of the century .30/'06 load of 200 to 250 grain bullets, what exactly do you mean? The original .30/'06 which arrived 6 years AFTER the turn of the century, was never loaded with 200 to 220-grain bullets until well AFTER 1906, the original loading being a 150-grain flatbased spitzer bullet at 2700 FPS.

Now the .30/'03 round, the original cartridge for the 1903 Springfield, used the same bullet as that used in the .30/40 Krag, a 220-grain full-jacketed roundnose of 220 grains. The MV of this 1903 round was 2300 FPS, 200 FPS faster than when shot in the Krag.

Is this what you want? If so, any load that uses a 220-grain bullet at a MV of 2300 FPS is as close as you're going to come. None of the powders used in 1903 are still available, so one must just have to be content with a current propellant! Use any medium to slow-burner that will produce 2300 FPS with a 220-grain bullet.

If you need a full patch 220-grain bullet, it is possible that Hornady is still making some......

The 220gr Nosler Partition worked well on an elk two years ago. Clocked 2350fps from my '06 and dropped him like a rock at 90yds.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Martin29:
The late Grancel Fitz shot just about everything with the 220 gr bullet in the 30/06. That would be a traditional choice.

As did Josea Sarber during his Alaskan shooting years...and he reputedly killed as many grizzly/brown bears as anyone who ever lived, most of them with the .30-06 and 220 gr.bullets.

There is no need to slow the bullets down if using 220 gr. lead-alloy bullets either.

It is no big trick to get that much velocity out of a smaller case than the '06. You can easily get 2,300 fps out of a .30-BR case with 212 gr. Eagan MX4-30ARD cast bullets....though 2,100 fps was easier for me to achieve top accuracy with...