Week ago I started thread “Which calibre for wild boars in mountains?” ( http://forums.accuratereloadin...3221043/m/1181086411 ), searching for what would be the most appropriate calibre for me. Initially, I was leaning toward one of 7mm cartridges, 7x64 being front runner because of its ballistics, availability of moderately weight rifles and availability of ammo in Europe where I have intention to use this particular rifle.

Since I like to shoot my rifles, I am definitely thinking about reloading, not just to lower the cost of ammo, but also to develop accurate load for it. In that respect, one of very important issues was availability and cost of brass. As I said, 7x64 looked as the most promising (I ruled out 7mm magnums since those rifles are heavier than I like and magazines are limited to 3 rounds). But, when I so the prices of 7x64 brass, comparing with other typical North American calibres, I started thinking bit more about other solutions. 280 Remington was ruled out because this ammo is basically non-existent in Europe. However, in that thread a fellow shooter analog_peninsula, mentioned “Not to be boring, but it sounds like you need a .30/06 ...”. At the firs moment I dismissed his hint, but after a while I started thinking about his words. Well, since “the proof is in the pudding”, I started looking data what I am going to get on 300 meters, and surprise, surprise, any way I slice it, 30-06 looks better than 7x64.

Now, because this is going to be primarily wild boar rifle, my fellow hunters suggested to go with nothing but with ammo that has one of those Barnes solid copper bullets. From what they had seen, there is nothing better than those bullets. According to them, any reasonably well placed shot and boar is just down. Since my intention is to use one of those Tipped TSX bullets ( http://www.barnesbullets.com/p...e/tipped-tsx-bullet/ ), I did not have reloading data for TTSX 30-180, but having its BC I found bullet with similar BC and use its ballistic data and interpolation to get velocity and energy at 300 meters.

As a basic reference, I searched for the load in 7x64 that will give me the biggest punch on 300m and found RWS http://www.rws-munition.de/en/...ic_data.htm?navid=10 where they listed the following load:

Calibre: 7x64 Brenneke
Bullet: HMK 11.2 g (173 gr)
BC: N/A
V, E at 0: 850m/s (2789 ft/s), 4046 J (2984 ft-lbs)
V, E at 300 m: 628m/s (2060 ft/s), 2984 J (1629 ft-lbs)

As for 30-06, I checked reloading data and found the following:

Calibre: 30-06 Springfield
Bullet: Nosler Partition-Spitzer 180 gr
BC: 474
V, E at 0: 2700 ft/s, 2913 ft-lbs
V, E at 300m: 2110 ft/s, 1782 ft-lbs

As for Barnes TTSX, I assumed that V/E at muzzle is going to be about same as TSX ( http://www.barnesbullets.com/i...06SpringfieldWeb.pdf ) and other 180 gr bullets, so I used 2700 fps value:

Calibre: 30-06 Springfield
Bullet: Barnes TTSX 180 gr
BC: 484
V, E at 0: 2700 ft/s, 2913 ft-lbs
V, E at 300m: 2120 ft/s, 1798 ft-lbs

Anyhow, if I had it right (corrections appreciated), anything that the best load for 7x64 will do on 300 meters, 30-06 will do also and then some, including larger calibre and bit heavier bullet, a definite plus when boars are in question. Considering availability and prices of rifles in 30-06, brass and bullets, and loaded ammo in Europe, I think that I am going to make a big mistake if at this moment I consider anything than this calibre.

I am not saying that I am ruling out for good one of those 7mm magnums (I would love to have 7 Weatherby), but in order to have it my way, I’ll have to get one of those big CZ or similar size rifles with magazine for 5 magnum rounds and commission custom 7 Weatherby that will have no more than 7 lbs.

Until I manage to save few cents or win jackpot, 30-06 will be more than enough…

Hard to go wrong with an '06!

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
Hard to go wrong with an '06!

- mike

Oh so true!

Some may consider vanilla ice cream boring, but it's still the best seller.

A .30-06 will serve you well (I assume that you've considered the "French" problem?)

If you're still interested in a 7mm Rem Magnum (and I don't find much to recommend it over the '06), you might look at a Sako since they have a magazine capacity of four rounds in belted magnums.

quote:

Originally posted by filmit:
Some may consider vanilla ice cream boring, but it's still the best seller.

Well, you if you put in a cone chocolate ice cream and some chocolate chips, you go few notches up, similar to what you gonna get when you put in 30-06 (or any other) case a premium bullet...

The .270 Winchester or .270 WSM or .270 bee is the answer for mountain boar.

The 06 is the round by which all other are judged.

If you wanna be different, look at the 338-06, impressive on the piggies, much more so than it should be.

John

somebody real smart, it was probably Abraham Lincoln, said, "you're never wrong choosing a 30-06". See if you can find you a sack of those 220gr RN core lokt cartridges. I would admire to see what they would do compared to these magic, dollar a pop, bullets they're selling now.

quote:

Originally posted by filmit:
Some may consider vanilla ice cream boring, but it's still the best seller.

I love vanilla ice cream, but never really warmed to the 06. Just too common, boaring really. Yep, does a good job at most things, but there are other rounds based on the 06 case I like better. If all I could get were factory ammo, the 30-06 is a tough one to pass on for sure.

I think that the .375H&H is the round by which all others are judged. The .30-06 is a good cartridge, no question, but, it is only an American "knockoff" of earlier German developments and is hardly any "better" than a number of other rounds, the original 8x57JS being one.

The .375H&H, however, is an original development and is the one cartridge from before "The Great War" that WILL handle ANY game on Earth and still is "shootable" by the average guy.

But, the old .30-06 is pretty good and provided the basis for the .270W and .280R. rounds, my favourites among smaller bores.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:

quote:

Originally posted by filmit:
Some may consider vanilla ice cream boring, but it's still the best seller.

I love vanilla ice cream, but never really warmed to the 06. Just too common, boaring really.

Nice pun there, fred!

quote:

somebody real smart, it was probably Abraham Lincoln , said, "you're never wrong choosing a 30-06".

Somehow I suspect it wasn't Lincoln that said this as the ole '06 wasn't designed until about 60 years after he died!

Here is a "quote" for you guys...


"There is not much a man can't fix, with seven hundred dollars and a 30-06."

30-06 is never a mistake. It was my first centerfire for about 25 years, then I started having fun with other calibers larger and smaller. I would be comfortable with it in the lower 48 states for anything,varmits to elk and black bear, only wanting larger bores for bigger or more dangerous game.

It wasn't Lincoln who said you can never go wrong choosing a 30-06. It was George Washington who said it right before crossing the Delaware. The exact quote is: "IF WE'D OF CHOSEN THE 30-06 WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO CROSS THIS DANM RIVER, WE COULD JUST SHOOT FROM HERE, I GUESS WE WENT WRONG PICKING THESE BLUNDERBUSS' INSTEAD OF ENFIELDS, Note to self, when this is over fire the armorer"

I've been a 30-06 man for most of my life, but there are better choices. If you don't mind a magnum, I'd recommend the 338 Win or Lapua Mag. But, if the magnum is more kick than you want, I'd suggest the 338-06 or, why not, the 338-06 Ackley Improved, especially given that you're a reloader. Modern 338 bullets are awesome, especially the 225 gr Nosler Accubond (BC=.55). With the 338-06 AI and a 26" barrel I'm getting 2875 fps with ~63 grs of N204 - THAT'S over 4000 ft# of muzzle energy and 600 yds of massive killing power. This is a very efficient cartridge in the 06 case category (infact, likely the most efficient when long range shooting is also considered). Regards, AIU

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
If you wanna be different, look at the 338-06, impressive on the piggies, much more so than it should be.

John

For piggies the same can be said about the 358 Winchester and 338 Federal.

Hell, I'd A.I. either of them!

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
If you wanna be different, look at the 338-06, impressive on the piggies, much more so than it should be.

John

You know John, I have to admit that I made same mistake as in another post and did not pay attention to your suggestion. Low and behold, I checked some loads and here is the fact; 338-06 could push 210 bullet as fast as 2820 fps, see http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/338-06Web.pdf . But, that’s not all, Barnes Tipped TSX 338-210 has BC .482, just trifle less than 30-180 (.484), see http://www.barnesbullets.com/p...e/tipped-tsx-bullet/ . And that means that my trajectory is going to be basically identical, or even bit better on 300 meters to/than trajectory of 30-180. Combining all that with heavier bullet and its bigger dia, looks like that piggies, once properly hit, wouldn’t go too far.

For such performance I’ll drop my requirement for cartridge that ammo should be available in Europe. And if I make it improved (AI), I’ll get not just much better brass life, but also few additional fps as a bonus.

Now, I only hope that such round wouldn’t make my bones rattling when fired from 7.5-8 lbs scoped rifle…

For sure the venerable 30-06 is a great round, but it's very mundane to many of us. It's analogous to going to Baskin Robins and buying a vanilla ice cream cone. Nothing wrong with vanilla, but when there are so many other exciting flavors to chose from... Vanilla, like the 30-06, is the default flavor - it's works when you can't make up your mind. Lou

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I've been a 30-06 man for most of my life, but there are better choices. If you don't mind a magnum, I'd recommend the 338 Win or Lapua Mag. But, if the magnum is more kick than you want, I'd suggest the 338-06 or, why not, the 338-06 Ackley Improved, especially given that you're a reloader. Modern 338 bullets are awesome, especially the 225 gr Nosler Accubond (BC=.55). With the 338-06 AI and a 26" barrel I'm getting 2875 fps with ~63 grs of N204 - THAT'S over 4000 ft# of muzzle energy and 600 yds of massive killing power. This is a very efficient cartridge in the 06 case category (infact, likely the most efficient when long range shooting is also considered). Regards, AIU

Very impressive, no question about that. What is rifle weight and how heavy is recoil? I did fire 338 WM full load with 225 gr ammo, but rifle was 9-9.5 lbs with scope. Recoil was substantial, no question about that, and since we fired it from the bench, even padded jacket did not help much. However, few shots off hand were not too bad. As a matter of fact, I would prefer 338 WM over 300 WM. However, those rifles are heavier than I want, so I am going to stick with -06 family.

quote:

Originally posted by Onty:
[As a matter of fact, I would prefer 338 WM over 300 WM. However, those rifles are heavier than I want, so I am going to stick with -06 family.

That is a sign of wisdom!

quote:

Originally posted by Onty:

You know John, I have to admit that I made same mistake as in another post and did not pay attention to your suggestion. Low and behold, I checked some loads and here is the fact; 338-06 could push 210 bullet as fast as 2820 fps, see http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/338-06Web.pdf . But, that’s not all, Barnes Tipped TSX 338-210 has BC .482, just trifle less than 30-180 (.484), see http://www.barnesbullets.com/p...e/tipped-tsx-bullet/ . And that means that my trajectory is going to be basically identical, or even bit better on 300 meters to/than trajectory of 30-180. Combining all that with heavier bullet and its bigger dia, looks like that piggies, once properly hit, wouldn’t go too far.

For such performance I’ll drop my requirement for cartridge that ammo should be available in Europe. And if I make it improved (AI), I’ll get not just much better brass life, but also few additional fps as a bonus.

Now, I only hope that such round wouldn’t make my bones rattling when fired from 7.5-8 lbs scoped rifle…

You will also get less wind drift and a larger punch hole and even larger exit hole. With the 210 gr bullets, you will be able to break the front femur and still punch through the vitals and exit. No chasing.

John

quote:

I think I’ll go with 30-06…

The worst drawback with the old .30-06 is that once you own one, it gets very hard to justify several other guns. Damn thing just works on everything from pronghorns to eland and would also do well with some larger targets as well.

Only two others can match that statement, the .280 Remington and the 7mm Rem Mag!

for me, the 30-06 is all anyone needs. however, what one "wants" changes the picture entirely.

I have 3 30-06 rifles. I don't get the plain vanilla crap as it can be loaded to snap at the heels of the smaller 300 magnums or easily down to 30 carbine levels. putting together a good load for cast bullets is not a problem either. As for not getting a 30-06 because it makes owning other rifles unnecessary I also own another 10 deer rifles. For a big hog bullet the 180 gr. Speer Hotcors or Mag Tips work very well

The .338 on one side or the 7mm on the other is better.

The great thing about an '06 is that you can focus on your hunting and not on your gear. It just works.

Why couldn't it be Abraham Lincoln?? Everything smart is always quoted as being said by him or Ben Franklin and even I know old Ben was dead before the '06 came along.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:
I have 3 30-06 rifles. I don't get the plain vanilla crap...

Sorry, I can't explain it in terms any simpler. Also, there's nothing wrong with vanilla. That's why they still sell it. It's just that many of us like something different. Lou

One of the few all around, accepted cartridges with an all around accepted bullet is the 30-06 with a 180gr Nosler Partition. Feed it into a BAR w/BOSS and there won't be anything in the lower 48 that'll give you a problem, including wild boar. On the note of it being a "boring" cartridge, those folks are just tired of hearing how it works. Remember your old favorite song: after hearing it 100's of times, you became tired of it and yet the elements that made it your favorite haven't changed, only you have.

I love vanilla. Never been in jail, never started a story "So there I was, sittin' in the bat at 3A.M. minding my own business..." Never had a 3 way.
I also have 5 30-06's.......
I must be boring!

bja,

"...never had a three way..."? Man, you haven't lived til you've been to Baskin&Robbins for a triple scoop of chocolate, strawberry, and pistachio!!

Rich
DRSS

Onty,

there's always the option of a CZ six-shooter in 300 H&H Magnum.

Hunt with class
Hunt with classics

Rich
DRSS

I had one once, the cartridge works its just not as much as a 300WSM, and too much more than a .270 win....

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
I love vanilla. Never been in jail, never started a story "So there I was, sittin' in the bat at 3A.M. minding my own business..." Never had a 3 way.
I also have 5 30-06's.......
I must be boring!

As boring as Vanilla IceCream and the 30-06 are alleged to be, they have another common characteristic, they outsell most of their competetors combined.

And as for Vanilla's runner up, chocolate?
You can't make chocolate ice cream without vanilla.

Similarly without the 30-06 there wouldn't be a 7x64, 280rem, 270win, 25-06, 338-06, etc...

AD

The 30/06 is plain jane vanilla but as good as any.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

Similarly without the 30-06 there wouldn't be a 7x64, 280rem, 270win, 25-06, 338-06, etc...

AD

Exactly! If everyone was happy with the 30-06 the way it is, they wouldn't have needed to create the above mentioned cartridges - are you sure the 06 is the parent of the 7x64? My 7x64 brass has a smaller head diameter.

Truth be told, I like vanilla, especially with warm chocolate cake topped with hot fudge; however, I can never bring myself to order it at BR when there are so many other choices. Same goes when I am at a gun store. Another good thing about most used rifles chambered for the 06 and other mundane cartridges are that they are usually cheaper.


Lou

quote:

The worst drawback with the old .30-06 is that once you own one, it gets very hard to justify several other guns.

Tell me about it , I own a 30-06 and a 375 H&H (and a 9.3x64 that I inherited). I've been trying to find reasons to get more rifles, but everything I go hunting for can be taken with one or the other. There may be calibers that are slightly better for the task, but that just takes away funds for future hunts and taxidermy. Maybe I need to go hunt in France ...