Guys I need your input.

As a professional hunter in South Africa I am looking for a calibre between the 500 Jeff and the 303 Brit.

It happens that clients visit South Africa and do not bring their own rifles and needs to use to PH's rifles, I am looking at the 338 win Mag because its a flat shooter with a heavy bullet and should work well for plains game.

What is your experience with the calibre and what brand off brass do you prefer to reload with?

I will be reloading for this calibre.

What do you think about Howa rifles in this calibre? It looks like they are straight shooters.

Thanks.

Gerhard

I love the .338WM. Brand of rifle... I dunno? Mine is a 1983 Remington M-700, in a custom fiberglas stock. It has been my mainstay as a moose/bear rifle for nearly 20 years.

67grs IMR-4350, 225gr Nosler Part = 2800 fps MV

I used exactly the same load with 250gr Nosler or Speer GS and get 2645fps MV.

Superb caliber - if you can shoot it. If the rifle is intended as a loaner, and you don't know whether the potential users can handle the recoil, you'd be better off with a .30-06.
- mike

I'd be another that would suggest perhaps a 30/06 is better as a "loaner rifle" or a 300WinMag with good recoil pad. I've never owned a 338WinMag but locally the Ruger M77 (S/S in particular) has an enviable reputation and you just dont see them being sold secondhand. Very robust and the S/S just laps up abusive weather.
Cheers...
Con

Thanks for the feed back.

I was thinking of using the 303 Brit as a loner rifle and using the 338 as my personal back up rifle on plains game.

Gerhard

The .338WM recoil is exaggerated and the .300WM is an overrated caliber IMHO.

If you're going to use .30 cal then it might as well be a .30-06, just use premium bullets.

Since you reload,
you might consider a 35 Whelen. Its not as flat shooting as the .338 win,but it it shoots plenty flat out to 300 yards for most any game.
And of course in Africa the classic 9.3X62 is a good round out to 250 or 300.
...tj3006

In my opinion -- my humble opinion, that is, the .338 win mag has no flies on it. I can see recoil complaints in a really light rifle, but I shoot a lot bigger stuff than the .338 and it is pleasant to shoot -- maybe I'm a bit numb. That said, it shoots flat, and hits hard. There's a myriad of premium bullets available and there are lots of good factory offerings if you are forced to use factory loads. I have settled on 250 grain Partition Golds at 2750 fps and it has proven very affective thus far.

I love my 338s and don't view the recoil as being that much. It is like a big shove - I would rather shoot them than my 300 mags, which tend to slap you more, IMO. Great caliber & real fun to shoot !!

quote:

Originally posted by taylorj:
I love my 338s and don't view the recoil as being that much. It is like a big shove - I would rather shoot them than my 300 mags, which tend to slap you more, IMO. Great caliber & real fun to shoot !!

I tend to agree. I have a matching pair of Winchester m70s, one a .300 Win. mag. and the other the .338 Win. mag. Weight of the two rifles is only about two ounces difference with the .300 Mag. being very slightly the heavier of the two. With 200 gr. bullets, the .300 is definitely the heavier kicker. With 225 gr. bullets the recoil about equals the .300 with 200 gr. bullets, but with 250 gr. bullets the .338 does recoil more. Both of my rifles have 26" barrels.
Paul B.

jakkals, i think you should stick too your 338 plan,most people comming to Africa know how to shoot.powders imr4350 h4350,reloader-19 all are great.Barnes tripple shocks=TSX in 185,210,225,will do the job hands down Noslers 210 partition would be cheaper and also very good. winchester brass is prefered ,more powder volume,federal magnum 215 primers , EXCELL, my 338 wheres a 26 inch tube,#5 conture it swigs and points like a sporting clays shotgun,300 &400 yard shots at my mgm praire dog are easy. iv'e never been to Africa but ifin i ever go my 338 magnums comming with. regards jjmp

I have used a 338WM on elk for many years now. When I first got it, I was ready for some serious recoil. I was pleasantly surprised. The hardest kicking rifle I used prior was a 6lb 30-06 w/ 180gr bullets. I think my 338 is easier to shoot.

The problem with having a 338WM as the loaner is that MOST folks are going to think that they are going to get "kicked by a mule" before they shoot it. They are psych'd out even before they shoot it. That's not good for anyone. IMO, get a nice midweight 30-06 and use 180gr Nosler Partitions for your loaner. Like you said, the 338WM can be your backup. If the hunter is capable of using your 338 then can let him. You get the 30-06. As you already know, bullet placement is the most important thing.

RH

himmelrr -- you raise a valid point. But, I think that if it is a loaner for clients that he will make them shoot it and familiarize themselves with it prior to use on a hunt. I may be wrong, but......

I'm a big 338 fan, any flavor, but I think a 30-06 would be a better loaner rifle. Any reason you don't want a 375H&H or 9.3x62 as your back-up rifle?

1) My experience with the .338 Winchester Magnum is positive. I have confidence in the cartridge. I use several different bullet weights including 300 grains. Excellent sectional density. MOA accuracy and no recoil issues.

2) I prefer Norma brass to relaod my .338 Winchester Magnum.

Before making your final decision you might want to consider the .375 Ruger in the Model 77 Hawkeye.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Before making your final decision you might want to consider the .375 Ruger in the Model 77 Hawkeye.

If you are going to get a .375 just buy the .375H&H. The extra 50-100 fps from the Ruger are irrelevant IMHO.

I do not have worldwide experience shooting any of my .338's except here in my part of Alaska. It is a versatile caliber. The recoil on both of my .338's is summed up by some who say the recoil is intolerable but I have not experienced this.

I don't sheep hunt much nor climb many huge mountains due to banged up knees from youthism and if I did then the 210's are pretty darn good for sheep hunting or for caribou. My preference is to use Winchester brass and Nosler Partition 250's-works effectively on both the Ak. Moose and the bears that hunt them. I've used the 300grainers a time or two for thick brush work poking around where the signs of grizz look like they were taking prescribed steroids to better there task-just a confidence thing for me, a big pill that penetrates and hits them hard.

The Ruger M77 Hawkeye is a handsome basic working rifle in the $800.00 USD price range. The Hawkeye features control round feed, fixed standing rear sight, sensible satin finish and is light weight enough to carry all day. Because you are a PH I thought the .375 caliber might be more vesatile for you. The Ruger M77 Hawkeye is only chambered in .375 Ruger at this time.

I'm not aware of a factory .375 H&H that is in this price range offering the features of the Hawkeye.

Buliwyf we're getting off topic with the .375 caliber but I suggest the H&H simply cuz of ammo availability plus he is buying this as a loaner rifle for clients. So in that case the .375H&H makes more sense to me. If you were buying it as your personal rifle then sure, get the .375 Ruger.

Whats; wrong with a CZ-550 in .375H&H?


As to the original question the .338WM...

quote:

Originally posted by Jakkals:

Thanks for the feed back.

I was thinking of using the 303 Brit as a loner rifle and using the 338 as my personal back up rifle on plains game.

Gerhard

In that case, IMHO, the .338 Win Mag makes an excellent plains game rifle. It's basically in the same class as the old .333 Jeffery (rimless) which had an excellent reputation back in the "good old days". The .338 Win Mag just has a little more velocity than the .333 Jeffery, of course.

Factory spec ballistics:

.333 Jeffery (rimless)
250 gr at 2500 fps
300 gr at 2200 fps

.338 Win Mag
250 gr at 2660 fps
300 gr at 2450 fps (original Winchester factory load back in the 1960s)

I just recently acquired a Ruger M77 MkII in .338 Win Mag but I haven't hunted anything with it yet. I did see a .338 Win Mag in action back in 2000 on a plains game hunt in South Africa (in the northern Limpopo Province).



I loaded the ammo for my friend Kate's Ruger M77 MkII in .338 Win Mag. The handload was a 250 gr Nosler Partition at 2650 fps (chrono average). It did an excellent job.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by Jakkals:
Guys I need your input.

As a professional hunter in South Africa I am looking for a calibre between the 500 Jeff and the 303 Brit.

It happens that clients visit South Africa and do not bring their own rifles and needs to use to PH's rifles, I am looking at the 338 win Mag because its a flat shooter with a heavy bullet and should work well for plains game.

What is your experience with the calibre and what brand off brass do you prefer to reload with?

I will be reloading for this calibre.

What do you think about Howa rifles in this calibre? It looks like they are straight shooters.

Thanks.

Gerhard

The .338 is fine but I'd prefer a well loaded .300 Mag with a bit less bite on the shoulder.

When it comes to rifles....Howa rates high with me!

quote:

Originally posted by himmelrr:

... The problem with having a 338WM as the loaner is that MOST folks are going to think that are going to get "kicked by a mule" before they shoot it.

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:

... plus he is buying this as a loaner rifle for clients.

Just for clarification, Jakkals said in his second post on this thread:

quote:

Originally posted by Jakkals:

Thanks for the feed back.

I was thinking of using the 303 Brit as a loner rifle and using the 338 as my personal back up rifle on plains game.

Gerhard

Cheers!
-Bob F.

Jakkals your choice of a 338 is hard to beat. While some have pointed out that a 300 mag would be easier on the shoulder they would not be as effective in stopping game. a larger diameter heavier bullet is going to create a larger hole,let more blood out and penetrate deeper. There is nothing wrong with the Howa rifles either in my opinion. There is one other calibre I would suggest you give consideration to , that is the 9.3x64 . Case capacity is very similar to the 338 with a larger bore. The 286 gr Nosler partition is a superb bullet in this calibre as are the Branes TSX bullets. There are Woodlieghs availible up to 320 grs. In a pinch it can be used on bigger stuff but with bullets about 250 grs it is very competative with the 338. If you wanted it in a Howa you would have to custom barrel one. Just my 2 cents

Thanks for the info guys.

The reason why I want a 338 Win is that when a client wounds an animal like Gems buck or Blue wildebeest they can be very hard to get down. I might have a shot at 250 yards + and then I don’t want to worry about trajectories.

As for the 375 H&H I am waiting for my 500 Jeff permit and I think the 338 win will be perfectly placed between the 303 Brit and the 500 Jeff.

Enjoy the day.

Gerhard

.375H&H.

Nuff said.

338-06, 338 Federal or 35 Whelen.

For the application you described I think a 338 would be perfect. In fact it is fine for everything smaller than buffalo out to the ranges you mentioned.

Gerhard, I really liked the way my .338 performed on game over there. I think you'd be pleased with it as well. While I shot 225 grain bullets, your application might be better served with stiffly loaded 250s to put down wounded, adrenaline-junky critters. Most experienced rifle shooters can also handle a .338, so if you had to loan it, no problem.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:


I loaded the ammo for my friend Kate's Ruger M77 MkII in .338 Win Mag. The handload was a 250 gr Nosler Partition at 2650 fps (chrono average). It did an excellent job.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

So did a 7mm08/150gn-2700fps! but having a messiah gungod father probably helped...

You could split the difference between 30/06&338win..... .338-06
but still very hard to ignore the 9.3x62....loaded with a GScustom230hv bullet, it hits harder than a factory loaded 338win225/250gn and with notably less recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
I'd be another that would suggest perhaps a 30/06 is better as a "loaner rifle" or a 300WinMag with good recoil pad. I've never owned a 338WinMag but locally the Ruger M77 (S/S in particular) has an enviable reputation and you just dont see them being sold secondhand. Very robust and the S/S just laps up abusive weather.
Cheers...
Con

I totally disagree with this statement !!!! I find the recoil of a .338 Mag to be less than the recoil of a .300 Win mag. I've owned them both in the same exact rifle, a Browning A-Bolt Composite Stalker (which I highly recommend, by the way) . I had the .338, and decided to buy the exact rifle in .300 Mag, which I did. Side by side at the shooting range, I shot a 180 gr @ 3050 fps from the .300, and a 210 Partition @ 3050 fps. To me, this compares apples to apples. If you need to compare a 250 grain bullet in .338, then you need to compare a 200 grain in the .300 Mag. Anyways, the results of my testing showed a much sharper, and more uncomfortable recoil with the .300 than the .338 mag. This was not just my opinion, but also that of several other testers that were present at the time.

The .338 gives a much more gentle :shove:", while a .300 produces a very uncomfortable, sharp "rap". Think about it, same case, same powder charge, same velocity. The smaller .300 cal barrel has a degree of restriction over the .338 for the projectile and gasses to move out of the barrel. I believe this it what produces the sharper recoil with the .300.

Long story short, I believe that too many people perpetuate the myth of a .338 as a kicker without ever trying it. I think for what you want it for, it is the ideal caliber. I use Federal brass, Federal Primers, and IMR 4350. I think a 210 Partition would be great for your purposes, they have killed several elk for me (up to 1000 lbs) and also deer size game. Nothing usually even takes a step after being hit. I would also advise against a Ruger M77 since the recoil with that stock design in any caliber is greater than it needs to be.

A poor stock design will make anything seem like its recoil is harsh. But come on guys, the .338 in a decent weight and stock design shouldn't be too objectionable. You all should try my Lott off the bench -- then almost anything feels gentle!

Can I get an AMEN from Bowhuntrll?

Seriously, the .338 WM isn't for everybody. If you've never snuggled up to one, a sarari probably isn't the best place to do it. That being said, I'd definately put my client behind the .338 befor the .300 wm. Push vs SLAP. I'll take the .338 all day long over the .300. Greater frontal surface area and more enjoyable to shoot.

That being said... Nube wihtout his own rifle.

.30-06, 168gr TSX!

I can recommend Browning BAR2 in 338. I use it for 4 years. I do not reload because Federal, Winchester, Norma etc. make good cartridges. BOSS reduce recoil and adjusts accuracy (0.6 MOA at 300 meters).

338 Win=Too much recoil for Poppasan...
30-06 much more friendly (with good stock)

If you want a loaner for clients either get a 30-06 or use your 303... If you want a rifle for PG back up and to fit between the 500 and 303 then get a 338 or 375. Simple enough

If anyone can tell the difference in recoil between the .300 WM and .338WM they are more sensitive than I. I think a .338 Ruger would make a great cheap loaner rifle that works.

For me 300 WM more unpleasant.

I just returned from southern Namibia where I used a .338 exclusively for plains game (oryx, kudu, zebra, springbok, black wildebeast, hartebeast.) Ranges were long (one springbok was approximately 400 yards). I did not feel overgunned and the recoil was not a problem. Although I would have been comfortable with the .300 Winchester my hunting companion was carrying, the .338 did well for me.

I primarily used the Nosler 225 Partition, which obviously works well. The new Accubond might provide a hair better trajectory and should also be a good performer.

I have probably shot more game with a .338 Win than any other rifle that I have or have had..It has performed with perfection on everything from duiker to several Cape Buffalo. In the US its my elk, deer, and bear rifle. It is the ideal elk rifle.

I like the 300 gr. Woodleighs on big stuff and in the thick stuff, and the 210 Nosler on the rest.

Good choice your making...

I love all three of my .338's

They are perfection at home in Alaska but I have used mine also in Africa and it seemed perfect there as well. I shot lots of plains game with it from springbock up to gemsbock with it and it worked well at the long rang you will find with these animals.

In a pinch it will work on dangeous game and my main .338 Mauser custom made in S.A. by the powder horn has saved my life at least once on a charging brown bear.

I'd go with the .338 and a .300 Win as a good second choice.

All just my personal opinion