Think there is enough steel in the barrel for that?

What's the muzzle diameter?

Here is what classic says:

The new cartridge must use the same case family as the new cartridge (30-06 to 35 Whelen) or the new cartridge must be bigger in all dimensions than the old cartridge (22-250 to .243 Win). The cartridge must still fit into the action, but we can change bolt face diameters and magazine boxes. The barrel wall thickness must meet or exceed 125 thousandths per side (250 total) for safety, at the muzzle. For example, a 30 caliber rebore can be no less than .550 at the muzzle (.300 plus .250).

Not sure, thinking out loud, I appreciate the help.

According to Jes at Jes Reboring, barrel diameter should be a minimum of .200 over groove diameter. A .411 groove diameter would require a muzzle diameter of .611.

BWW: when you say "express", is it one of the short production run rifles with integral quarter-rib and express sights?

quote:

According to Jes at Jes Reboring, barrel diameter should be a minimum of .200 over groove diameter.

Classic appears to be a touch more conservative with .25" vs .2

A total waste of money, time and a decent rifle.

It's already a popular chambering.

Sell it as is, use it or put it aside for now and shop for what you seem to want.

The 400 Whelan is not a real cartridge! Nobody uses it because it's of little use.

quote:

The 400 Whelan is not a real cartridge! Nobody uses it because it's of little use.

quote:

Originally posted by LRx:
BWW: when you say "express", is it one of the short production run rifles with integral quarter-rib and express sights?

Yes, I have a pretty good disdain for 270s, so to me it is not a real cartridge, that nobody uses.

Hell it's not even legal in Namibia. The minimum is 7mm.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
A total waste of money, time and a decent rifle.

It's already a popular chambering.

Sell it as is, use it or put it aside for now and shop for what you seem to want.

The 400 Whelan is not a real cartridge! Nobody uses it because it's of little use.

Ya, just useless. Those 40 cal bullets bounce off cotton tails and only tickle big game. Better sell that rifle and get you one of those Savage 99's. They are so very usefull, that they were discontinued several years ago!
(Sorry. The jackass in me just couldn't be held back! )

Elmer used it to tickle quite a few.

The point is that the rifle's barrel has real value now so chambered for the popular 270!

It would save money to find a action without a good barrel.

The 270 is a great round, and well known for being a flat shooting long range hunting round. An integral machined quarter rib with an express "V" seems like a wast of machine time for a 270. In my personal opinion, such a barrel is much better suited to rounds more traditionally associated with open sight hunting, such as the various big bores. An AR member once posted pics of one of these rifles in 30-06 rebored/chambered to 9.3x62. If the muzzle diameter is wide enough, this barrel can be used for a number of large/medium bore rounds like the 375 Ruger and/or 375 H&H. Brownells has mag boxes for both, but you might have to come up with a mag bolt face action. The 375 Holland requires a little bit of judicious removal of metal from the feed ramp and from behind the box, a 375 H&H box and follower, and trimming back the bolt stop. I have notes and pictures of how it is done. Phil Shoemaker has a Ruger M77Mark II that was once a 338 and was converted to 375 H&H by the late great Bill Atkinson.

The standard action express rifles did not sell well, and the 270 was the worst seller of all. I think having the 270's rebored to bigger calibers makes them much more useful, and possibly more valuable to. I would love one in 9.3x62.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
The 400 Whelan is not a real cartridge! Nobody uses it because it's of little use.

First of all it's Whelen, not Whelan. If you're going to make an idiotic remark at least spell it right.

Secondly, as to the usefulness of the 400 Whelen, here's two critters who didn't appreciate it's usefulness. Both one shot, on the ground, and no tracking. The moose was shot at 75 yards, the caribou at 250.

Nice of you to post pictures Mart, nice shooting.
The 400 Whelen is more popular than some people will ever know, same guys who still view the 22/250, 25/06 and 257 Roberts as wildcats and to be steered clear of.

Thank you sir. I have thoroughly enjoyed my 400 Whelen and one cannot put a price on that. Once we reduce rifles to their "resale" value as some would, we loose sight of the immense enjoyment to be had with exploring other chamberings.

Mart, that rifle is a thing of beauty! Can you tell us about it? Looks like a lefty model 70. Did you have to get a different mag box, or was a factory 06' box sufficient? Some recent reading, here on A.R., has enlightened me to the fact the original 400 Whelen specs have a blown out body with a .458" diameter shoulder. Later gunsmiths/gun tinkerers et al, decided to make 400 Whelen's using standard 06' shoulder diameters in their reamer and case specs. It seems this is the real reason for the 400 Whelen's bad reputation for headspace problems. Frank Barnes entry in, "Cartridges of the World", regarding the 400 Whelen, has, in my opinion, given the 400 Whelen a tremendous black eye. This is a reference often used by gun writers and your average gun enthusiast, alike. Mr. Barnes was very knowledgeable and made a great contribution to the industry, but many of his entries in that book are ill informed, and I think a concerted overhaul is well overdue. Mr. Savage_99's original comment indicates a possible paraphrasing of Frank Barnes assessment, as Mr. Barnes said the 400 Whelen was "of little use", as well. It just goes to show that the Internet is not the only resource where you shouldn't take any particular bit of information as the gospel truth. I love Frank d'Haas's books on rifles, as well, but I've come across a few errors/wives tales in them as well.

Matt,

It is a model 70 left handed. Original magazine. It will take 5 down with no changes to the magazine.

A google search for Michael Petrov or 400 Whelen will bring up his articles. Michael is no longer with us, and we are poorer for that. He was a meticulous researcher and did a wonderful job of dispelling the 400 Whelen myths as well as uncovering the history of the round. Michael was a friend and mentor and inspired me to build the one you see in the picture.

My rifle wears a Shilen barrel and the original stock with the barrel channel opened up. I had it drilled and tapped for a Lyman 48 which is on it in the picture.

Lots of internet experts regurgitate myths and misinformation in an effort to sound credible.

There is a cadre of dedicated 400 Whelen fans within our ranks who actually have used the 400 and recognize it for the useful round it is. The combined experience and depth of knowledge of the grand old 400 among our members is mammoth. With any luck we'll keep the good Colonel's grand wildcat alive and well for another 92 years.

Big Wonderful Wyoming:

Still not sure of the muzzle diameter? Well, I am guessing it will not be large enough to allow the re-bore. Greater than or equal to 0.411" groove plus 0.250" is what I like for a muzzle diameter = 0.661" or greater as rule of thumb.
But with the barrel band at muzzle and integral quarter rib I would tolerate a minimum muzzle diameter (exclusive of barrel band front sight ramp) of 0.411" plus 0.200" = 0.611" as an absolute minimum, or whatever the re-boring firm will accept as a minimum:

quote:

Originally posted by mart:
According to Jes at Jes Reboring, barrel diameter should be a minimum of .200 over groove diameter. A .411 groove diameter would require a muzzle diameter of .611.

If you do not have .611" or more, leave that rare Ruger collector item as is and get a new donor rifle and barrel.


Now let us continue to pile on Savage_99 ...

Besides being adequate for anything that walks the earth, the 400 Whelen also makes a great deer rifle.
I took mine out and harvested two tasty does bang, bang, one shot kills, heart shots at about 100 yards.
Hearts were busted up pretty good and bullet exited each time.
Based on that, I say the 400 Whelen is more than adequate for rabbits also.

Looks pretty useful to me RIP.

This thread has turned into a great opportunity to plug 400 Whelens!
I wasn't concerned with "resale value" when I built my 400 Whelen just wanted a big dumb rifle "of little use".
I really love my rifle and just may get it out to slay a doe or 2 this weekend.
Mine was built with Petrov's reamer, Shilen barrel, Timney trigger, 2 position M70 style safety and a 1903 Springfield action. I couldn't be happier with mine!

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
The point is that the rifle's barrel has real value now so chambered for the popular 270!

It would save money to find a action without a good barrel.

It does not have value to me, it is a coyote rifle. A damn fine one as Elmer Keith would claim.

I take great pleasure in killing 270s.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
The point is that the rifle's barrel has real value now so chambered for the popular 270!

It would save money to find a action without a good barrel.

It does not have value to me, it is a coyote rifle. A damn fine one as Elmer Keith would claim.

I take great pleasure in killing 270s.

A man after my own heart.

I thought a gun shop owner was going to pass out last week when I said the much used and little cared for, pre 64 model 70 in 270 he had would make a great donor action for a 400 Whelen. He started to stutter and stammer, "but, but, but, but that's a pre 64 model 70. A collector piece."

I said, "it might have been had someone actually treated it like that instead letting it lay in the bottom of a boat." My buddy bought it cheap for the action. I'm betting he turns it into a 400. We talked at breakfast this morning and he is still deciding what to build. Either a 400 Whelen or a 333 OKH.

Well I am curious. I have a 35 Whelen and the shoulder is very unsubstantial. I had to size cases to exact chamber length, that is there is no forward movement of the bolt when the lugs are engagement, to prevent misfires and hangfires. I also put in a new mainspring in the M1903 and use the most sensitive primers on the market, Federals. With some clearance in the chamber and the old mainspring, I got misfires and hangfires in cold weather.


From the pictures I have seen the 400 Whelen has an even smaller shoulder. So what do you guys do to ensure positive ignition?

Either of the Whelen's have plenty of shoulder in a decently cut chamber and brass sized to fit with the shoulders not pushed back. Having said that, there appears to be some Whelen's out there with poor chambers as it sure is not the shoulders fault.
In the 1903 you might check the firing pin itself as they are known to break them at times. The misfires and hang fires in "cold weather" is again not related to the shoulder. Something else, firing mechanism oil/crud slowing down the stroke, powder, primer something else is causing that. Might give that bolt a good degreasing while taken fully down, dry with compressed air and reassemble.
Good luck!

It sounds like you have a generous chamber on your 35. I'd be curious to see if your bolt would close on a no go gauge.

I've never had a misfire with either my 35 or 400 Whelen. I set my dies to just barely off the shoulder/neck juncture. Factory ammo is not an issue in my 35 either.

Generally when I hear of misfires in cold weather I look for dirt or grease or both slowing down the firing pin. I've seen a few guys change out the firing pin spring and not bother to clean the bolt cylinder and continue to have the misfires until they got the crud out of the bolt. You may even look at the firing pin and firing pin hole to see if there any deformity that may impede the passage of the pin.

If your bolt does not close on a no go gauge and still has misfires I would look for something mechanical rather than blame the "unsubstantial" shoulder of the 35 Whelen. It has way more surface area than any of the semi auto handgun rounds and we expect them to headspace correctly on the minuscule real estate of the case mouth.

With a rifle correctly chambered, brass correctly sized, good primers, good powder and the firing pin striking with the proper force, there should never be a misfire with either a 35 or 400 Whelen. Of course the same applies to any round.

The reboring does sound interesting . possibly a very affordable way to get a VERY SWEET and lively all around express rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by LRx:
BWW: when you say "express", is it one of the short production run rifles with integral quarter-rib and express sights?

Yes, I have a pretty good disdain for 270s, so to me it is not a real cartridge, that nobody uses.

Hell it's not even legal in Namibia. The minimum is 7mm.

NAPHA says so not the Namibian regulations ....

Why in the hell would anyone rebore a factory barrel when he could get a new, good barrel installed? Just my personal opinion.

Jim

I'd suggest cost would be one reason, and even more so if the original barrel was anything more than a metal tube (like octagon barrel, or an integrated ramp sight). I have not done one myself but know lots of guys that have gotten good results from reboring factory barrels.

Re bore to keep the Qtr. Rib & Sights..

I had my 30-06 Express re bored to 9.3X62, there was barely enough barrel wall to complete this job.. Don't think you'll make it in .40 cal.

I'm with Jim K. It doesn't make any sense.

Makes perfect sense to me. Keeps more $$$ in his pocket for dies,brass,bullets ect and have a barrel that already has the bits on it.
I have a CZ 550 Magnum take off barrel setting on a beam just waiting for me to figure out what I want it bored to. Its currently a 300 Win Mag.
Since it is the same od as the CZ 550 458 barrel . I can have it opened up to most anything I would want.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Why in the hell would anyone rebore a factory barrel when he could get a new, good barrel installed? Just my personal opinion.

Jim

Jim,
In most cases you are right, but the cost to machine an integral quarter rib makes a rebore good economic sense, in this case. Retail price of Sunny Hill's CNC integral barrels is $2300, all polished up, and their design choices are very limited. That's using a Douglas barrel. If you want a Krieger, add almost $300. Maybe someone could turn them for less, but it sounds pretty expensive, regardless.