Lets say an american citizen or permanent resident was to come to Australia for a hunting holiday. Let's also say their Australian friend wanted them to purchase and bring with them a rifle that is hard to get in Australia ie. thompson centre encore rifle {it's not restricted just hard to get} Would it technically be possible for them to bring the rifle so that they could buy it from them. Nothing illegal, I mean to a licenced Australian shooter. So if you know what I mean please reply.

it used to be common practice to give a guide a present.

I'd have no trouble getting on an airplane with a firearm and leave it somewhere......I'm not at all sure what I'd have to go thru to get into aussieland with it.....but as long as I don't have it upon returning, It's ok....I'm not required to have it upoon return.....after that it's your problem!

Technically, it would be an illegal exportation by the American, though I don't suppose anyone would care enough to matter.

From the ATF FAQ website (WWW.ATF.gov):

The GCA does not require export licenses. However, most firearms and ammunition must be exported in accordance with the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act of 1976. Regulations implementing this Act generally require a license to be obtained from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls, Department of State, PM/DDTC, SA-1, Room 1200, 2401 E St., N.W., Washington, DC 20037; (202) 663-1282.

The export of sporting shotguns and ammunition for sporting shotguns is regulated by the U.S. Department of Commerce rather than the State Department. An export license is generally needed to export these shotguns and ammunition. For further information, contact them at their nearest district office or the Bureau of Industry and Security, Outreach and Educational Services Division, U.S. Department of Commerce, 14th St. & Pennsylvania Ave. N.W., Washington, DC 20230, (202) 482-4811.

When exporting NFA firearms, ATF Form 9 must be completed and approved by ATF prior to export.

[22 U.S.C. 2778, 27 CFR 479.114 and 479.116]

HTH, Dutch.

Technically no. Nothing you really want to do is impossible. If nothing else, as an American, we take the rifle over and when questioned about it on our return trip we just go into a fit and mention how the bloody Aussies stole half of our stuff at the hotel, airport, etc, whatever. Transfer complete.
Brian

I had a friend from Ireland buy a rifle here in the States, and then send it back home. It took a little time for the paper work, but wasn't a big problem.

Have your friend call the Australian Embassey and the ATF. I doubt it would be a problem, but there probably are some forms and fees to pay.

AND as long as your friend doesn't live in New York City or some other place that requires rifles to be registered. Be interesting to fill out a transfer slip with a buyers address in Australia :-)

Rich

called the BATFE office in Boise, they said it's a piece of cake. One form to fill out if you "think you might dispose of the firearm legally while in Australia". AUS is on the list of approved countries to transfer to. The agency to contact is the Defense Trade Controls office in DC 202-663-1282

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Posted 07 May 2007 16:29 Hide Post
I'd have no trouble getting on an airplane with a firearm and leave it somewhere......I'm not at all sure what I'd have to go thru to get into aussieland with it.....but as long as I don't have it upon returning, It's ok....I'm not required to have it upoon return.....after that it's your problem!

That's not true !. It's a BIG PROBLEM For YOU !.
you entered a foreign country with a firearm upon your departure you must have that fire arm accounted for whether in or out of your possession !. Other wise your a terrorist or arms smuggler !.

If entering a country to hunt with your own weapon or a purchased weapon and wish to legally gift that weapon to a guide or friend in that country ( One must fill out paper work to do so ! ) .

Some years ago in NZ I wasn't able to take my own gun in for a hunt and had to use a guides weapon .

As far as Australia is concerned I owned property in the State of Queensland out side of Rockhampton . When that awful shooting business occurred down NSW . Well about 2 years later the Wife and I figure we're going down under to live . that was until I was informed by the Australian Consulate my " Gun Collection " would not be going with us !. So a couple of years later sold the property !. ( I had a business as well as a working permit for over 25 years in Australia at the time ) ...

I have traveled into and out of countries on 4 contients many times with a rifle (and one time a shot gun) in tow. On my exit, no one would have known or questioned me if I did not have the gun with me. And arriving back in the US they would not have know to ask either. Those that do ask about it rarely care. THere was an anti-hunter airline representative in London that gave me a good tongue lashing, but the UK Customs guys appolojized to me and processed me in a hurry and got me away from her.

I am not condoning anything illegal, only saying my many experiences has not mirrored some of the statements made on this thread.

I do get an US Customs form 4457 for every gun and rifle I bring out of the country. I ahve only been asked to produce it on 2 ocassions. I would have been nailed for the tax had I not had them.

One of these times was when a rifle and shotgun got held up for over 6 months in the Helsinki airport (loooooong story). I finally got a friend to pick them up and mail them to me and they went into my local Customs office, so of course they asked to see the paper work.

joughin,

It would be illegal, i.e., a federal felony, for the American to do as you describe without an export permit from the U.S. State Department.

It would be inadvisable to try to circumvent that requirement. I have been asked by foreign police and customs officials to open my rifle case prior to departure and produce my Form 4457 for each rifle on nearly every trip abroad.

I have also been asked, less frequently, but several times, by U.S. Customs to open my rifle case and present my Form 4457 upon return to the country.

It would be an easy matter for any of these officials, if so inclined, to discover any attempted subterfuge.

Much better to get the export permit. Each U.S. citizen is entitled to one. If another export is ever wanted, there are export companies who specialize in that sort of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
called the BATFE office in Boise, they said it's a piece of cake. One form to fill out if you "think you might dispose of the firearm legally while in Australia". AUS is on the list of approved countries to transfer to. The agency to contact is the Defense Trade Controls office in DC 202-663-1282

Rich
DRSS

Rich, That's class one information. Well done.

Well idaho sharpshooter I shall be making that call. All i have to do now is make sure the legalities are all good and find a willing american who's coming to australia.....

It will be interesting trying to find one. I have some friends in washington state but they're not coming here for quite some time...

hmmmm. i guess i should look into this alot more before i carry another couple dozen AR lowers down to mexico.

I recall a couple times my gunsmithing customers gave the guides (one in Zimbabwe & one in Botswana) 375/338's I'd built for them. I had to build them new ones. They simply handed them over and told customs they had given them to the guides & the guide's name. But that was 20 yrs ago and they have probably tightened up now. I think it's easier when you actually take a used gun with you & give it away, from what I've heard, but it should be no big deal to do the paperwork & get it right.
No doubt, you'll get on the terrorist watch list immediately afterwards, as a weapons dealer .

It occurs to me that a person with a devious mind could work within the system and accomplish some odd things. For instance, in the US the serial number of a firearm is on the receiver, but in other places it might be on the barrel. There would be absolutely no trouble getting whatever words (or numbers) a person wanted put on the barrel over here, even ones that don't match the receiver number...

Although an American might be in technical violation of "export" regulations if he did not bring his sporting firearm back from overseas, generally the US government doesn't care and will not check in any way to see that you returned with a gun that you left with (the exception being some significant number of guns that might be used for non-sporting purposes, ie., gunrunning.)

It is the country in which the gun is left that "cares". For example, you must now certify that you are leaving Canada with all of the guns you brought into Canada under the relatively new Canadian gun entry regulations. Some countries have similar requirements; some do not. I do not know if Australia does.

I'm sure there is some provision for "hold harmless" if you are hunting by boat in a swamp and a salt water croc upends your boat, sending your Weatherby to the bottom of the drink.

Sako308,

I do have a bit of a short fuse some days, but I try and be helpful. Actually, my contact at the BATFE deserves the credit, he took about five minutes and walked me thru the entire process. It is pretty simple, especially if it's a long gun and "used" (wink-wink).

Rich
DRSS

There is only one form one must have leaving the USA with a gun.....but entering such countries as Canada in an Automobile it's easy for them to record you for the return visit.

If I had to do paperwork on the firearm upon entering the visiting country then I might be very reluctant to leave the gun there.

Personally, I'd be far more concerned about being discovered with an unregistered firearm in the foreign country than returning to the USA without a gun I left there with.....Customs don't care about what I didn't bring back at all!

I would have to have the gun registered in Australia before the American left for it to be legal. That wouldn't be a problem though. It's surprises me that it's more expensive for me to get firearms out of America than it is to get it into Australia. I only have to get 1 form, a B709 import firearms form and that's it. Doesn't even cost me anything.
It's a real shame as unless firearms are shipped in massive quantities to Australia the cost to get something not so common here like a TC Encore rifle will cost double what it cost's in the states, same for the barrels.

Yes it is a shame !. I believe it's called the commerce act or some crap ?. I remember years ago I had a slight problem with Opals from Coober Pedy !. No export license !. So had to smuggle them out !. They were gifts from a friend who lived worked his home there .


mrlexma ; Is correct Form 4457 is what is needed on our end and you know what's needed on your end !. It should be affordable , there is no custom duty in Australia for that is there ?. I would think a " Gift " set up would be proper as to avoid any Import fees !.

A year ago Feb. Went to Argentina Dove hunting
took my usual shotgun battery ( 2 ) in case one screws up . I'll just inform the lot of you , YOU better have the FORMS and the GUNS and all the serial numbers had better MATCH UP !. Coming and Going !. Other wise your not leaving the Country !!!!!!.

If there is some type of accident where a firearm is broken lost or stolen . You need to get a Local Federal Cop not just a cop but a Federal Cop and sing him the song !. One of the local guides or hotel people had better back it up !.

Things have gotten super serious in certain country's since this Terrorism stuff !. One more word of advice even if you speak the language fluently JOKES aren't funny to those Federal Boys !. I don't thing they are regular some seem down right Anal as a matter of fact !. ...

quote:

Originally posted by joughin:
I would have to have the gun registered in Australia before the American left for it to be legal. That wouldn't be a problem though. It's surprises me that it's more expensive for me to get firearms out of America than it is to get it into Australia. I only have to get 1 form, a B709 import firearms form and that's it. Doesn't even cost me anything.
It's a real shame as unless firearms are shipped in massive quantities to Australia the cost to get something not so common here like a TC Encore rifle will cost double what it cost's in the states, same for the barrels.

You need to provide your import permit to the American who needs to give it to the State Dept. before he can get the US export permit.

That is SOP under the post 9/11 procedures.

But if you can do that, and if your American friend has the stick-to-itiveness to follow through with State, it can be done.