Hi is anyone using any rws h-mantel bullets?
I just got some in 9.3mm 258gr and was wondering what peoples opinion's where are they a controled expansion type of bullet or more explosive? are they suitable in a 9.3x62 for samber deer?

The question has been addressed here various times. Generally speaking, the old H-Mantel is nowadays held in low esteem in its motherland, and in fact RWS/RUAG have discontinued it for this very reason and substituted it by the new DK bullet.

The first part of the bullet disintegrates rapidly, sometimes with significant meat damage (edited addition: see also Johan's comment below). The second half is supposed to penetrate, but not always does so, since the H-Mantel is not a real partition bullet (such as Nosler partition, Blaser/RUAG CDP, Swift, and also the new DK). Deflection of the second part within the body of the game is often very significant.

Not knowing about Samber deer, I cannot give any recommendation thereupon.

Regards,
Carcano

[ 09-16-2003, 21:59: Message edited by: carcano91 ]

Thanks Carcano I tried searching but must have used the wrong wording will have to try again

Carcano has summarized it. This bullet's design is based on the same concept as the Nosler Partition, maybe the other way around, actually, because the H-mantel is a lot older bullet design(a Brenneke design, I think??). However the Nosler has a much tougher wall in the middle, (the H-mantel being made by folding the jacket material into a partition), so the Nosler holds together better at high impact velocities. The Nosler therefore penetrates better than the H-mantel.

Eldeguello: please allow me to disagree with all due respect, if I may. The present Nosler partition is a *very* different bullet from its same-named ancestor, and cannot be compared.

The H-Mantel has a few similarities with the primeval Nosler, but not with what most hunters today associate when they write (and think of) "Nosler Partition".

I'll check who developed the H-Mantel and when. It was probaby Lampel, but certainly *not* old Wilhelm Brenneke, who was a fierce competitor against RWS.

Carcano

My experince is shrapnel bombs..

I would think that the TIG, TUG or TOG is much better suited for the task than the H mantel.

/ JOHAN

Yeah, in the old original nosler partition, the partition had a small gap in the center which could let the bullet continue to expand on past it. Sambar are like smallest bull elk aren't they or like a big red deer?

Eldeguello:

I did look it up now, in the two German bullet books. According to Manfred Rosenberger, who really knows his stuff, the H-Mantel was invented in the 1930s by Walter Lampel, to compete with Brenneke's bullets. Norbert Klups (who however does not always know his stuff ;-)) gives 1933 as the year of introduction.

Initially, it was produced with lead point, open hollow point and jacketed hollow point. The remainders today (the bullet is being phased out) only bear jacketed hollow points.

Carcano

Smlekid:
I hunted four red deers with my first 9,3x62 (Mannlincher Schoena�er 1952 - 24" barrel) with reloads with RWS H-Mantel 258 grs (2.350 fts).
Four shots, four kills. From 60 to 250 mts. In my opinion, excellent bullet in the hunt field.
H�ctor

If you do a check in the African forum I posted some results from an 8X68 and H mantel bullets I used in Namibia last month. All in all it worked well, but the one that failed was eye opening!

TSJ:
what had you described here
http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008199
is *typical* for H-Mantel bullets. One need not be surprised.

Oh, by the way: it's not a "premium bullet". No way. Not even the manufacturer calls it so.

I already commented in the thread.

Carcano

Thanks all

Thanks all I will probably use woodlieghs for the serious stuff the H-mantel were just to cheap to pass up they will be fine on our lighter game like pigs and goats

Carcano 91
I would use H mantels again, but would avoid hitting any large bone as I certainly belive what you've said. On the kudu I neckshot, the bullet failed to exit after breaking, the admittingly hard, vertebrea.

TSJ:
I may not like the H-Mantel, but it is certainly not a "bad" bullet as such (as was the old D-Mantel). But neither is the age-old "simple" long & heavy SPRN a bad solution.

Just give me a classic 215 grains .303 British, or a .318 WR, a .333 Jeffery, a heavy 8mm soft point round or flat nose - they will perform just fine in most circumstances.

Kynoch rulez ;-).

Carcano

Carcano 91
I dont know, or dont remember what the D-mantel was, can you tell me about it?
I like your choices myself, nothing wrong with a standard bullet as long as the velocity isnt to high. Thats why the 45/70 worked so well, really, it killed faster then the 8x68,shots were close, bullet was slow. 350 grn Hornady@ 2000 fps.

Dear TSJ:
the D-Mantel was another invention of the 1930s, and astonishingly was still produced up to 1974 or so. Even though an explanation belongs more into the field of history, it might spare some unsuspecting reader the possibly disastrous field experience, which could arise out of finding a dusty box of "RWS D-Mantel" on the shelf of an old gunshop, and buying it because of the promising RWS name and the rare opportunity of finding German ammo for a specific metric cartridge...

The D-Mantel was also nicknamed "the jacketed shrapnel". While not really a shrapnel or canister load in a *technical* sense (such as the italian riot loads for the 6,5x52 Carcano), it was a disintegration bullet. As such it worked: giving rapid disintegration and big meat damage, mostly lacking penetration, rarely having exit wounds, and often yielding long tracking searches.

As recent employ of the same principle for a very limited (and tailored) use is A-Square's "lion load".

Regards,
Carcano

[ 09-21-2003, 19:59: Message edited by: carcano91 ]

Carcano- Thanks for the info on the various "Mantel" bullets!!

smlekid,

Was it you who bought up O'Reiley Sport's supply of these bullets? I just read their ad in the last Austtralian Shooter, called to buy some but they're all gone

Good luck with them. Let us know how they perform.

/

Stu c the H-mantel I have did come from O'riely's in Melbourne they are the bronze pointed type I will load some up for our smal game like goats and let people know how they perform