I tried doing a search but there was 2295 results found! A popular topic indeed!!

Anyway, I have a 338-06 reamer. Now the question: Would a 1in 12 give better accuracy? My question is a result of reading, Widcats Volume II. In it is an article by Layne Simpson. He figured that 1in12 would give better accuracy with the 210 NP, etc.

Do a search for ".338-06 twist" and look at all forums. Good comments in these threads abt bullet weight, twist, and accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
I tried doing a search but there was 2295 results found! A popular topic indeed!!

Anyway, I have a 338-06 reamer. Now the question: Would a 1in 12 give better accuracy? My question is a result of reading, Widcats Volume II. In it is an article by Layne Simpson. He figured that 1in12 would give better accuracy with the 210 NP, etc.

Mine shoots em into 1.5" at 200 yds. It has a 1 in 10" twist. Also shoots 225's into the same.

1-10" is my choice as well.....

A few years ago, I dealt with the same question. I bought a new Winchester Mod 70 stainless in 338 WM, and there was something wrong with that barrel. It was very inaccurate, and I never did figure out why. I thought about sending it back to Winchester because they said they would check it out and would probably put a new barrel on it for me. I thought about just selling it too, but instead, I just used the action to make a custom rifle.

I had a gunsmith in Grand Junction order a Lilja stainless barrel, made to replicate the winchester factory contour. I didn't have to think about it very long, and ordered a 12" twist rate. The reason was that I just wanted to try the slower twist, since the way I figured it, winchester first introduced the rifle with a fast enough twist to stabelize their 300 factory loads available at that time.

The 300 gr bullets were dropped a long time ago, and the 270 gr too. Although these bullet weights are still good, and useful, mostly nowadays the 250 grain is the heaviest bullet used. So I figured that 10" twist was excessive.

Anyway, after a long while, I finally got the rifle finished, and bedded into a McMillan stock, after I had moved to Soldotna, AK.

I was anxious to try it, and there was still plenty of snow at the range. I didn't have time to mess with handloads, so I bought a box of 250 gr Remington.

I didn't go through a proper break in process, instead I shot it a few times, and cleaned the barrel between shots, but not thoroughly. Then I shot for accuracy. WOW This turned out to be the most accurate rifle I have. I have shot three shot groups, holes touching each other, several times with factory ammo and especially with handloads. Those Hornady 225 gr interlock bullets are amazing, and the Noslers too.

Once, I shot a deer right behind the shoulders, at close to 300 yards. I could clearly hear the bullet hit. That deer went down in his tracks, kicked a bit, and that's all. It's a deer killing machine at practically any range you can hit them, but my limit is about 300 yards. I suspect that results would be the same on Caribou too. Hope to try that soon. With moose and bear, my first choice would be 250grs, but I'm sure the 225s would be good, especially the Swift.

Actually, I'm explaining why I don't have a 338-06. It's because I couldn't think of going hunting with a 338 caliber, and leave my 338 WM at home.

Once, when I first tried the 225 interbonds, I again didn't have much time, so I picked a load from a manual that I thought would be most likely to suceed. I didn't work up to it, but it wasn't max either, and I had used it with other 225 gr bullets. IMR 4350 powder. Anyway, there was an old timer at the range, which is basically a one-seater where I live now. He took his time and bragged along the way. When it was my turn, I really didn't know for sure what kind of accuracy I would get. I just shot three times and then walked down and got the targe. Three holes touching each other. I quit while I was ahead, showed him the target and left. I told him I was just testing ammo, and I came back later and zeroed the point of impact. I'm still using that load, because I can't improve upon it.

So, I am certain that the 12" twist rate for the 338 is a good choice. I would certainly do it again, unless I planned on using 270 gr bullets or heavier. My rifle shoots the 250 gr bullets just as accurate as the 225 gr.

KB

That's quite a stretch to say that the 1 in 12" twist is what turned that rifle into a shooter. You're ignoring about 100 other variables.

A 1 in 12" twist will work as well as a 1 in 10" for lighter bullets but, the 1 in 10" is far more versatile.

quote:

Originally posted by rem721:
That's quite a stretch to say that the 1 in 12" twist is what turned that rifle into a shooter. You're ignoring about 100 other variables.

A 1 in 12" twist will work as well as a 1 in 10" for lighter bullets but, the 1 in 10" is far more versatile.

Yes, I know, but I believe that the 12" twist was the magic. I once had a wildcat, 338 on 280 brass with an improved shoulder. It had a Shilen 10" twist barrel, and I could not get anything lighter than 250 grs to shoot as accurately as the 250s would shoot. The groups would just clearly open up, as the bullets got lighter. 200 grs were hopeless.

I don't have extensive experience with this, just those two examples, but it satisfied me that there is something there.

Yes, the word versitile gets into the discussion. Frankly the 338 is darn versitile no matter which way you load it. For me, I made the deliberate choice to use no bullets heavier than 250 gr, a choice for me that doesn't reduce the versitility at all. I think the 250 gr is heavy enough for anything I would use the 338 for. For my use the 225 gr is ideal, so I load the ideal bullet, and firmly believe the 12" twist is the ideal rate for the bullet I use. I don't feel a loss of versitility at all excluding 270 and 300 gr bullets.

Incidentally, I would just as soon use a good 200 gr 30 caliber bullet in the 30-06 as I would the 210 gr 338 bullet in the 338-06. But when you step up to 225 grs at 338 WM velocity -- well that's what the 338 WM and versitility is about. With that load, 225gr in 338 WM, it is pointless to own a 30 cal magnum.
KB

I hope this is another funny story. When I first tested this 338WM, and found it to be so accurate, I had not shot even a half box of bullets. I went back over to my gunsmith's shop, and put the target on his counter, and waited until there were several customers around. Then I said loudly that I had a complaint, and a big problem whith the rifle he just finished for me. As he looked at the target, with that little group, and there was silence in the shop, I just waited, then smiled and said "where's the challange". This rifle is a problem because if it shoots factory ammo this good, then how can I tell if my handloads are better? Everyone laughed.

KB

Thanks Kabluewy, that's what I was looking for, I'll try it out. Can't hurt to try.

I don't think you will be dissappointed. It's the same principle as a 30-06 with a 12" twist barrel or a 9.3x62 with a 14" twist. Just use the bullets best for the twist, and it can't be a bad thing. Try using 220 gr .308 bullets with 12" twist, or 320 gr 9.3 bullets with a 14" twist, and you will have the same thing that will happen if you try 270 or 300 gr .338 bullets in a 12" twist. They most likely won't be adequately stabalized. But stay with the mid-weight bullets in either caliber/twist and I think the combo will enhance accuracy.

That's the nice thing about a custom barrel, you get to choose. Choose your bullet weight first, then the barrel setup for the optimum. If I wanted a rifle to shoot 30 caliber 165 gr bullets, I would choose 12" rather than 10" twist. It may not matter very much, but I like having my 338 with 12" twist.

Another thing, and perhaps others may not agree, but I used the 210 gr Nosler partition for a while, and found them very accurate, and deadly on deer. I used the last of them on deer loads. But the first part of that box was used in that wildcat I had, and I shot a moose with them. They didn't do as good as I expected. I had to shoot that moose three times to keep him down, and all three bullets came apart into tiny little pieces, making a hell of a mess with bloodshot meat. Same thing happened with a caribou, but I had to shoot him only once. but both shoulders were terribly blood shot. As a result, I don't like that bullet for anything bigger than deer, and you better place your shot carefully, to minimize meat damage. My choice now would be something in a bonded 225 gr. such as the swift, or hornady interbond or nosler accubond. This choice is not so much to minimize meat damage, but to have a bullet that wont come completely apart. With a 338, meat damage can be real bad, if you hit them wrong. Gotta avoid the shoulders. The tougher the bullet, the less the damage from blood shot, and the greater penetration too, both which are good.

It's all in direct proportion to how fast the bullet is moving, and how fast it opens up. I've heard some say the 375 H&H doesn't damage much meat, but once I shot a deer with a 300gr bullet, and it crossed through the front of one shoulder, and exited out the back of the opposite shoulder. There was a lot of meat damage. I should have shot him in the neck or head, but it was quick. Big, fast bullets just mess up a lot of meat.

KB

Technically it might, but most gun nuts are et up with technical BS...The difference would more likely be in the particular barrel as to the difference in twist and accuracy..

All my .338-06 were very accurate indeed, I used Lothar Walther barrels, Krieger and douglas, and all of them were 1x10 twist...

Technically it will, otherwise why are the bencrest nuts so keen about matching the twist to the bullet weight, to the distance to the target. There are some who are not into gun nut or bench rest technicalities, and fancy themselves as practical, and they can rationalize pretty good too, just like the rest of us with our own particular point of view.

These practical guys fancy themselves by saying stuff like don't confuse me with technicalities, let's just go hunting, yet they all have their own varity of technical. Otherwise why bother with custom barrels at all, such as the LWs and Kriegers and such. Just grab your Rem 700 in 06, use factory ammo, and go hunting.

I'm not advocating bench rest anything. I'm just saying that 10" twist is excessive for the most practical bullets in 338. It's like using an 8" twist in .264 when using 130 to 140 gr bullets. Most folks don't choose such a barrel, given a choice. The problem with the 338 is that factory rifles don't give us the choice. Loathar Walther doesn't give us a choice since they offer only the 10" twist. The factory rifle mfgs are faced with but one choice - they have to make their hunting rifles with barrels to stabalize the heaviest bullets likely to be used.

I have to admit that I learned something recently. I got a CZ in 7.62x39 and thought to myself that there's no way this thing is going to be a tack driver, because the twist rate is wrong for the light bullets used. Well, the rifle shoots very well and accurately indeed. It will shoot more ccurately than I can hold steady.

So, obviously it is correct that there is more to accuracy than the twist rate. So what. I suspect the CZ would shoot accurately with a variety of twist rates - not in the same barrel of course. Likewise for any other caliber, and twist rate.

Will I choose the fastest twist rate for a given cartridge? Maybe or maybe not -- depends on what bullet I plan on using. In a factory rifle I take what I can get.

KB

IMO, I don;t think you can over stabalize a bullet. The 210grNP is likely to shoot just as well from either. My own 338-06 has a 1-10 & shoots the 210grNP just as well as teh 250gr, almost identical groups. Now it won;t shoot any 225gr bullet worth a crap, but I suspect it's the individual bbl. harmonics & not the twist rate. It's your bbl. though, go which ever direction you think will work, just don;t expect miracles.

I agree that matching the twist rate of the barrel with the preferred bullet is ideal. I built my 7-08AI with a 1:11 twist, because I knew I would not be shooting anything heavier than 140gr bullets in that barrel. If there is a deer out there that is somehow immune to a 140gr Partition leaving the muzzle at 3000fps+/-, I'm better off pulling out my 300WinMag, rather than just moving up in bullet weight.

Having said that, my .338WinMag has a 1:12 twist, even though the 225gr Partition is my bullet of choice. I don't have a bolt action rifle in the safe that is larger than the .338, so I wanted it to be a little more versatile.

In my eagerness for knowledge I didn't mention the fact I have a 338 Winnie, it shoots a steady diet of 250 NP's. It does it's duty very well!!

I'm looking for a nice light handy 338. Thus the 338-06 and the 1in 12 twist. It won't be shooting anything heavier than 210's.