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Swaging down 338 bullets is done by quite a few people for "plinking". but in reality, for the amount 318WR's are shot taking into account the cost of the guns, can people not afford 1 or 2 packets of bullets ? Re cases, I use 30.06 cases in my 318's, just have to be damn careful the ammo is not mixed up with 30.06 ammo. | |||
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Just for general info, over the years there have been a couple of other guns from the past in addition to the Hungarian 8x56R which also used bullets of .329"-.330" diameter. One was the Japanese 8 m/m Murata rifle, and the other the 8 m/m Roth-Steyr pistol. In the late years of the 19th Century, there were quite a few variations on the 8m/m theme. | |||
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at the price those Hornady .330 205 gr bullets are, you could shoot the .318WR alot. I also see they have PRVI BULLET 8x56R (.330) 208gr FMJBT 100/BAG in stock as well which are even cheaper. | |||
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If you look at case dimentions, the one closest to .318WR is the 8x60S. If the .338-06 was birthed as .340 Keith, it would probably have sold a lot more. As a PlaneJane .338-06 is has to low sex-appeal. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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I never realized sex appeal factored into one's selection of hunting arms. Learn something new every day... | |||
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Not too surprising, either. A number of the Brit cartridges (and rifles, for that matter) were not really of Brit origin....even though they may have been marketed as British items. Matter of fact, in the years just before the birth of the .318 WR, there was a lot of money being made in Britain by buying barreled actions from Germany and Austria, stocking and blacking them in England, fitting sporting sights of a type more popular with the Brit shooters, and selling them under British trade labels. Look at the "Gibbs" Mannlichers, for instance...imported from Steyr in Austria, and sold as one of the most popular deer stalking rifles of the day in GB....and for antelope in South Africa. Other big British rifle names did the same thing. Sometimes they did it by buying the whole rifle abroad and not even stocking it in Britain. Those rifles were often stamped with something like "regulated by Holland & Holland"...which really meant that H&H only made sure the rifle was sighted to point of aim with a given make and weight of bullet at a given distance. Other than the .303 Enfields, the various 6.5 Mannlichers' greatest competition in GB was likely the barreled Mauser action imported from Germany in 7x57, then stocked, sighted, and blacked in Britain, and sold as the .275. Then, there are such rounds as the .500 Jeffery and .404 Jeffrey, both produced and possibly originated in Europe, as the 12.7x70 Schuler and the 10.75x73. Germany was the only source in the earliest years for the .500 Jeffery ammunition, so it is almost certain it was originated by Schuler. One of the business things of the day in Britain was the "development" of proprietary cartridges so that purchaser of rifles would have to also buy their cartridges from the rifle-maker. That's how we ended up in double-rifles with a .465, .470, .476, and so on when the .450 was banned in some colonial areas. They all had the same ballistics and power of the .450 Nitro, but took proprietary ammunition. So, it would not surprise me in the least if WR got the idea for simplifying production of its "proprietary 8 m/m" (the .318 WR) by using a rimless case in the .330 bore already produced for at least 15 years by Steyr. Especially as WR had already been doing business with the Steyr factory in Austria for at least a dozen years to purchase Mannlicher turn-bolt actions. That would have had the advatage for WR of other 8m/m ammo components not being satisfactory for substitution in "their" 8m/m. No way to know if that happened or didn't, but it shouldn't surprise any firearms researcher to someday find evidence that it occured. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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the .318WR was introduced in 1910, while the 8x60S was a result of the Versailles treaty. according to COTW, there is no European cartridge with a bullet diameter between .324" and .350". so i don't think they renamed an already existing European cartridge. | |||
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May I suggest you re-read the whole thread? COTW DOES LIST A .330" CARTRIDGE, IN FACT 4 OF THEM. Three of them are listed in my posts above, complete with COTW page references for the most dominant one. The fourth, the 8x52-R was mentioned even earlier above by another poster. The Japanese Murata was a bit earlier, having been replaced in 1897 by the 6.5s in their armed services. And, I did not say the .318 was likely a copy of an existing cartridge. What I said is it MAY have been a rimless case developed or chosen by WR and used in an existing .330" bore size from Europe...specifically from Steyr, the 8x56R which is listed by COTW at .329" and in other sources at .330". I think most of us recognize it didn't copy the 8x60 case specifically because as you said, the 8x60 came as a result of German manufacturing restrictions after WWI. But just as the Germans devloped the 8x60 by lengthening the 8x57 case after the War, it wouldn't have taken WR much effort to develop a special proprietary 8mm of their own even earlier...which they obviously did. We are discussing it in this very thread. All they had to do was use the slightly larger .330" bore already being made by Steyr for the M1895 8x56R Mannlicher straight-pull military rifles & carbines which armed the Austro-Hungarian empire, and do what the Germans did later.... slightly lengthen the 57 mm case from the existing 7x57 , 8x57, 9x57, 9.3x57, and 9.5x57 cartridges. No biggy, no genius required. Who knows, as they already had a business relationship with Steyr, it is at least possible (though not documented to have occured) that Steyr did the boring, rifling, and maybe even the chambering of the first barrels for the .318 WR. It is also possible that WR shortened some longer rimless case such as the .30-06 for use in the Steyr barrels. It is also possible WR had advance knowledge of the 8x64 Brenneke rimless, which appeared commercially in ABOUT 1912, and shortened THAT case for use in the .330" groove-diameter bore. Quien sabe? My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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338 Hunter Now that would sell.
The 338 Hunter "Put It On The Ground"
Put it in all adds with 2 rifles. Do like Kimber with one rifle using a gorgeous hand finished walnut stock and a good blued finish. The other rifle would be a modern synthetic with a Cerakote. Each add would leave the walnut stocked rifle as is and would change the synthetic rifle each time using different stock finishes. "Put It On The Ground" would be the key phrase and each add would talk about "Low Recoil" and "Large Frontal Area" | |||
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And for the first year on the market, offer the .338 Hunter ammo with 3 bullets...a 210 NP eqivalent, something about 225 grains with a boattail and LD nose for long range, and a 250 gr. semi-spitzer or RN for "low recoil and large frontal area for optimal DG punch". After the first year, when the 250s didn'treally sell, but the rep was established, they could always discontinue that heaviest bullet loading. Heck, I'd probably even buy it. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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 I wouldn't market the 338 Hunter to DG. I would market it to moose and elk hunters. I would market it as a low recoil, long range cartridge for these animals and use the Barnes MRX. Working with Barnes, the MRX logo, the cross section of the silvex core, and the blue tip would all be in an advertisement as well as a red crimson wash to provide contrast.  The main bullet would be the 185 gr. Barnes MRX with its blue tip in the adds. There would be black/white photo's of a hunter following an obvious firehose bloodtrail. Then there would also be a crimson red wash to symbolise the blood trail as a back drop and contrast the blue of the MRX. I would include a comment about "No Area 51 Powder Required For This Round" | |||
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AR - I wouldn't market it for African DG, but I sure would for Alaskan DG and to those folks (and there are many thousands of them) who think the black bear is a DG animal. And it is amazing what that DG cachet can do for a cartridge. Look at all the .458s there are in the U.S. which have never been used in real life on ANYTHING other than paper. I think your ad campaign would work very well, but I simply note that in the marketing business the end goal is not the furthering of truth in advertising, but sales. Anyway, I do think that properly marketed, no matter who's campaign was bought into by management, it COULD be a very good seller, and really useful for all of us handloaders. P.S.: I'd omit the firehose blood trail pics, at least in a magazine that reaches family units for general reading, like Outdoor Life, Field and Stream, or Sports Afield. Pictures of blood and gore are a no-no for many of their readers. And anything that touches a nerve of a larger segment of their readers, like the conservationists, is definitely not welcome in these days of on-line competition with periodicals and newspapers. They have enough trouble holding subscribers already. | |||
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I'm a farmer now, but I did work 4 years in cut throat marketing and sales 10 years ago. Have the cavities to prove it: - Breakfast: coffee - Dinner: coffee - Lunch: chocolate bar - Supper: chips or pizza  | |||
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That's why it would be in black and white.  | |||
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I think it comes down to marketing and nostalgia. I wish Remington would have come out and with and marketed the 338-06 instead of the Whelen. Look at all the Whelen's floating around since Remington re-introduced it. They would have had something to compete with the 338 WM.
I would skip the 225gr bullet and go with the 185, 210, and 250. The 185 will shoot flat and be more than enough for smaller critters. A premium 210gr will do anything that you need done. If you need more, you may as well go on up to the 250gr bullet. There are very few critters on this earth that a 250gr bullet out of a 338-06 wouldn't handle. I say this after having played with four different 338-06's and bullets from 180 to 375gr. | |||
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Though I know the dangers of assumptions all too well, I assume you mean a grain farm? Well, with 2 or hopefully more sections crop acreage allotment, a wheat-pool membership, and good crop/hail insurance , I'd have to guess you'd be having a pretty good life now compared to the never-ending rat race of a marketing account manager. What's the guaranteed price for this coming year? Hope you are loving it and have a great 2010. What part of Saskatchewan are you in? My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I think this quote above is good, practical logic for marketing purposes, and a better selection than the three weights I suggsted earlier. For my own personal use, I would only buy the 210s and the 250s. I have waaaaayyy too many rifles which overlap with the 185s to have any need or desire to purchase that weight in the .318 WR chambering. I don't feel the lighter ones are appropriate for its intended uses. But, yes, there are those who would otherwise bad-mouth the hell out of it as being "too limited" in its scope, and who would bitch because they couldn't use it as a general purpose, all-around" rifle. For an all-around rifle I would think the .338/06 to be a far better choice. One could still hold velocity of cup n'core 250s down to where they would perform with absolute satisfaction, and could better drive the 185s at a velocity commensurate with longer range shooting. | |||
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My thoughts exactly. But I enjoyed playing around with all the different bullet weights. I feel the same way about > 250gr bullets. I have other rifle/cartridge combinations that will cover those situations better also. But you wouldn't be undergunned with the 250gr bullets except for a few circumstances which you should be carrying a bigger rifle anyway. | |||
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I suppose from a marketing point of view that makes sense, but I likely wouldn't buy either. I got a .338-06 because I wanted the old .318 WR performance on game, but couldn't get the rifle to like 250 grain bullets. It does like the 225 gr NPs, so that is what I take hunting. I'm hugely impressed with the performance on game and don't really get it when people suggest lighter bullets. What is the difference in drop at 300 yds between 210 gr and 225 gr bullets of the same shape? I like an exit wound, at least on broadside-ish shots. To date, my .338-06 has only taken 12 animals, but only a bullet that broke the neck of a zebra at 200yds has stayed in the animal. How much penetration would you give up with a 210 gr NP vs a 225 gr NP? Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 318 Westley Richards and its modern counterpart the 338-06
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