So I have this combo in 16ga X ??? Its marked Emil Kerner V. Sohn on one barrel and Suhl on the other...as well as a few other marks here and there.

I took some pics of the proofs in hopes I could figire out the rifle cal. I thought 9.3X72 but am not sure. maybe some of you double folks could help me out.



And a little teaser, I think the horn triggergaurd is what hooked me. What a sucker huh.

Proof marks suggest post-war East German manufacture. Cartridge appears to be a 9mm (.357) x 72 firing a 200 grain bullet. I know of no such cartridge. You may need to slug the bore and have the chamber cast.

CH / 4D has 9 x 72 reloading dies listed on their web site.

TLee

The 8.8 and 72 marks make it nearly certain that this one is chambered for the 9,3x72R, but there's nothing like a good chamber cast and bore slug to make sure. One mark I don't see very often is the crown-over-E, or "Express" proof on the rifle barrel. The crown-over-N and KmG marks let you know that the rifle barrel is intended for smokeless and jacketed bullets, too, and the 6/26 tells me it was prooved in June of 1926. 15 then 16-in-a-circle says the shotgun bore is a bit larger than usual for a 16 gauge, and I'll bet the 16 gauge chamber is 2-9/16" long rather than 2-3/4" since it isn't marked 70 anywhere. Looks like the gun is in very good condition!

Ah, and you probably already know that the front (rifle) trigger is a single set trigger - nice!

[ 05-02-2003, 01:37: Message edited by: bpesteve ]

The only time I know of Germans marking something 8,8 is when they refer to a .358" bore. The .358 Winchester is known as the 8,8x51mm. This keeps things seperate from a traditional 9mm, which is a .356 bore.

The East German proof marks are post-WWII, so I doubt the rifle was made in 1926, unless it has been recambered and hence re-proofed. It certainly is a interesting collection of marks.

Jag,

Your testing my limited knowledge.

But here goes:

Left side,

Crown over G = E,German 1st Black powder proof since 1950

Crown over U = E.German inspectiion mark since 1950

Crown over N = E. German smokeless powder proof since 1950

Don't know what the rest means.

Right side,

Crown over S = E. German 1st Black powder proof for smooth bore barrels since 1950

Crown over U = see above

Crown over W = E.German,Shul choke-bore barrel mark since 1950

As far as 8.8x72 don't know.

My German made (original Oberndorf Mauser Sporter circa 1927, rebuilt by Emil Nordheim) in 375 H&H, is marked, 9.2x72, and the chamber cast confirms 375 H&H. (Mauser documents list the English 375 H&H as 9.25x72B, but they were not consistant as to using only bore or groove diameter)

Have it casted and be sure, but I expect (hopefully for you) that it is indeed a 9.3x72, which was both black powder and smokeless.

Be carefull, as besides the standard 9.3x72R, there was also a 9.3x72R Sauer case, developed by Sauer & Sohn that has a slight bottleneck, and is not the same as the straight 9.3x72R case.

As your rifle is Sohn marked, that is a possibility.

Beautiful rifle (er drilling) none the less.

Regards,

Bob

/

MacD37,

Errrr, your right of course, a Cape Gun, not a drilling, in too much of a hurry to be clever.

Alf,

A 400/360 is a possibility, but me thinks the euro designation was/is 9x70R....

Chamber cast it for sure.

Thanks,

Bob

Wow! What a great response...
I looks like I will be goin the chamber cast route. Better safe then, destroying such a nice gun.

A few of its other features;
Single leaf(one fixed, one flip up) express site.
See through scope rings, claw mount.
Original scope, not sure of mfg, but its is a Three post version, in 4x?

Its just a great setup and I have mixed feelings on keeping it. I jumped at buying it, and it dipped into my double fund. So we will see.

Thanks again for all of hte help. If there is any other info you have or info you need from the gun to help let me know.

Regards,
JAG

JAG, in addition to a chamber cast, I would suggest slugging the bore too, to determine land & groove diameters.

JAG, the scope on your gun looks to be a W. Kuafmann made in Wetzlar, Germany, in the 20s, or 30s

Thanks again for the info. Mac, I havent put alot if time into researching the scope yet. But you may be right. I may take it to Vegas the begining of June for the antique arms show, to see what kind of response I get. Should be a good way to find info/value on it, or trade it towards a double.

THanks,
JAG

Mac, I will do that. Thanks again for all of the help.

Regards,
JAG

It could be the obsolete 8x72R Sauer, which was used in combination guns before WW I.

This rifle's caliber is marked 8,8 X 72mm. I'll bet it will prove to have a groove daimeter of between .354" and .356", and a land diameter around .346". I suspect the chamber cast will show a case identical to the 9.3X72, except necked to fire .354"-.356" bullets. If this proves true, cartridges can be made from the 9.3 X 72 case, and, if the fired case's mouth will permit a .357" or .358" bullet to freely enter the fired case, then standard .35 caliber U.S. bullets can be used for loading it.

[ 05-08-2003, 18:21: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Thanks for all of the replies. I will keep you posted.

JAG