Hi all..thanks for the many replys and hope you all had a great Christmas.

Hunter 308...There is nothing wrong with the Remington 200 grain load. It will do 99% of what needs to get done in the USA and Canada. If you had to deal with BIG bears on a daily basis you might want something heavier but for everthing else the 200 grain bullet will do the job.

Cobra.... Remington did bring out a load with the 225 grain Swift A-Frame but withdrew it because it did not make their accuracy standard. Would be nice if they would just bring back their 250 grain Cor-Loc or better an improved 250 grain bonded Ulta Cor-Loc.

HotCore...no I have not confidence in the 220 grain flat nose. It was just one of those feak deals. I would rather have a bullet that opened up a little faster on deer than just have it just punch a hole through.

NE 450.... I will probably try the Hornady 200 in the spring when it gets a little warmer. As all I will be shooting will be deer and black bear it probably is a waste of money to shoot the expensive petition bullets.

Would be nice for everyone who doesn't reload if Federal would come out with a premium load with the Nosler Petition or Trophy Bonded bullet.....

Bob

Normally my friend and I shoot the same 225 grain Nosler Partition, his being a .35 Whelen 7600 Remington. However I ended up having to switch to the Speer 220 grain FP because I was having problems with the loaded Nosler bullets pushing into the case. Seems that the design was changed slightly and when one seats the 225 to 2.800" one pushes the largest part of the bullet shank too deep into the case...hense causing some retention problems... We have had nothing but one shot, rarely move from the spot, complete penetration kills with this bullet.



..anyway last Monday I hit a very large doe quartering away from me at about 35 yards...running. The crosshairs were on the last rib when the 600 carbine went off but as the deer was moving for all she was worth the bullet landed just ahead of the right rear leg about where a humans waist would be. The bullet just touched the large muscle on the upper leg before impacting just below the spine. The deer hit the ground, thrashed around for about 40 seconds and expired as I got to her.



The wound was not a simple hole like I am used to seeing, but a "tear" in the hide about 6" long and 2" wide. There was no exit wound out the off side. Upon opening the deer up there was no blood on the inside of of the body cavity..and no hole into the body caviaty. Upon skinning and butchering there was very little meat damage...and no sign of the bullet, jacket or lead....and two of us looked very hard trying to find out why the deer went down as hard as it did and died.



There was no danage to the spine. The bullet didn't look like it even came close. There was quite a bit to trama to the loin in the area of the hit but no bullet damage, more like shock.



If this had been the Nosler Petition I would have expected to see a hole out the off side of the body about where the last rib would be on the left side as it would have passed just under the spine. The only thing I can come up with is that this bullet was originally designed to open at .35 Remington velocities of about 600 fps lower than it was pushed out of the 600 Carbine. As the bullet nicked the rear ham it started to expand and when it impacted the skin of the flank it expanded violently enough to impart a lot of shock to the area effecting the spine. The bullet then turned and exited without penetrating, causing the big surface tear on the hide....the deer died of shock.



I am a little hesitant to use this bullet in the future especially as where I hunt people have taken black bear well over 600 pounds. The last thing I would want to see happen is a bullet expand too quickly and not get into the vitals of a bear.



Has anyone else pushed this bullet to the 2600-2700 fps range and hit game with it? Would appreciate any imput.



Thanks,



Bob

This is almost exactly like a kill a friend made on a forkie mule deer buck about 6 or 8 years ago. At no more than 25 yards a 180 Speer Mag Tip out of his 300 Win Mag clipped the top of the rear hip and cut a swath down about 6-8 ribs just below the spine as the deer attempted to leave the scene. Deer went down immediately, made an attempt to get up and flopped over dead. We couldn't believe it. The shot must have shocked the spinal cord to the point of shutting down the nervous system. Made for a nice clean kill. Strange though.

Although I've not shot any critters with it, I've tested that bullet on soggy newspapers. I really do think they are far too soft at the velocies you are pushing them.

I found them to rapidly expand at only 2100fps, and the cores always separated from the jackets.

I know newspaper ain't deer, but I've range tested a lot of bullets and THIS is a relatively fragile bullet.

A friend of mine back in Canada failed to get much penetration with this bullet in his .35 Remington which is not exactly a speed demon. This was only 1 medium size doe (southern Ontario sized medium -- still pretty big). He switched bullets based on this one bad case.

In my informal newspaper tests, I found the Hornady 35 cal 250gr bullets quite reasonable (although 35 Whelen/ 350 Rem velocities woiuld be about max for use on game I think). I use them by the bushel for practice in my .358 Norm Mag.

I've heard good reports of Sierra Gamekings in 35 cal, but have not got my hands on any to try.

Interesting story about the deer! I think you scared it to death...

RJM

I use the Speer 220 in the 358Win and the results are excellent for both penetration and expansion. It works OK for the 35 Rem if you can beef up the load--such as in my M760 Rem. pump.

For the .350Rem I stick with the 225 Nosler P. or the 250 Hornady RN or Speer.

I think the Rem Mag/Whelen velocity is a bit too much for the 220 Speer FT.

WN