The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles What scope you using this fall?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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My favorite saddle gun for elk or Mule deer is a Savage 99F in 308 Win and it had a 2x7X28 Leupoold on it last year..Mostly its worn a 3X Leupold. but I had that on on my mod. 70 pre 64 fwt. in 30-06, another good saddle gun.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Wow, you are one rude little prick. You might want to go back down in your mommy's basement before she finds you've been playing with her computer. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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The 6.5x54 should still be adequate for whitetail, since Bell used it to pot elephants. I have one of those Dialytans and it is no worse than a lot of modern scopes, though I don't think it's as good as the Zeiss and Hensoldt refracting scopes of the mid-20th Century, in terms of field blending at least. My Dialytan is no shorter than the conventional scopes, and doesn't seem anything great in FoV or eye relief, so I'm not sure what the advantage of the prism was. | |||
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Not sure where you're coming from Mr. Hydell, whether your comments are tongue in cheek or are meant to be a put down. I do not know the history of this classic rifle and scope, it came from the estate of a gentleman I never met. I can say that I will use it for mid day stalk hunting of our Alabama whitetail deer. It is a pure joy to carry, shoulder, and snap shoot with, and will be ideal for that style of hunting. The scope is also perfect for the job, having post reticle. However, it is just cloudy enough to be less than ideal for late evening low light conditions. I plan to use it this Fall and Winter and, if the less than perfect glass bothers me too much, will have it reconditioned next Spring. sambarman, I think the Dialytan is quite remarkable for a nearly 80 year old scope. In fact, the entire combination of rifle, claw style scope mounts, and scope, make for a fascinating system. I have extensively tested the impact of removal and replacement of the scope on POI and found that the variance to stay under one MOA. And, I am fairly confidant that the 160 gr RN bullets will not bounce off our 'native', not 'feral', whitetails. I find it remarkable that, except for bore diameter, the 6.5X54 is nearly identical ballistically to the 30-30 Winchester. Yet the African and Indian hunters used it for most everything, including elephant. I guess the mantra of using long, heavy for caliber bullets and penetration, penetration, penetration has some merit! | |||
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Just a little late night tongue-in-cheek smarminess. Sounds like an awesome rifle! Good luck on your hunt, sir. All The Best ... | |||
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Cool! | |||
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Glad to hear the claw mounts still work well, Hook. You may be aware I'm a big fan of old, reticle-movement scopes, esp. German ones, and am always interested in information about them. So, does your Dialytan have the objective integral with the barrel or is it obviously a separate piece of metal? | |||
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Not sure what you mean about the objective integral with the barrel.... Maybe this pic will help:  I fired a series of three shot groups first removing and replacing the scope between each group and then removing and replacing between each shot. Other than the last group opening up a tad (I got tired waiting for the bbl to cool), the POIs did not wander very much. In fact, I just went back to review the targets and found that the first three groups didn't move at all. The last one shifted downward about 1.5", but that was when the bbl was hotter and may not have been the scope removal process causing it. | |||
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Thanks Hook, as a Mannlicher Schoenauer fan, I must admit envy. Both our scopes have the distinct objective housing, though mine is a railed, 'Featherweight' dural model. This makes me wonder when they were made. Stoeger's 1939 catalogue shows all the Hensoldts with (superior?) integral objectives but the German merchant said mine (SN20919) was probably made after the war. Though your scope seems to have a turret cap mine lacks, I'm happy to report the view through the one I've got is very clear. Maybe not having to be stripped to solder mounts on made the difference. | |||
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I use a Leupold 2.5 - 8 x 36 on all my standard weight rifles. On a few lightweight rifles I have built on Brown Precision stocks (When they cost $105.95!). I have Leupold 2 - 7 x 33 scopes. I have never had a lick of trouble. The magnification is quite adequate, and I don't have headlights mounted on the rifles.  | |||
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I've found that magnification over 6x is almost always unnecessary for any big game and more often proves to be a detriment. Large objective scopes merely provide more opportunity for damage and make your rifle ungainly. With a few exceptions, my big game scopes are 1-4x or 1.5-6x, with 20mm- 32mm objectives. When I expect shots at 125 yards and less, nothing beats a reflex sight (shotgun slugs and pistol-caliber lever rifles). That's my experience from my hunting, which is walking - stalking and back-pack/remote hunting, not from blinds. I rarely shoot at game over 300 yards (usually much less) but 6x has proven plenty adequate at 500 yards. I do have a 4-14x scope on one rifle - my 'long range' squirrel rifle! I find it helps with head shots at 100+ yards with my .17 Mach 2. | |||
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I agree, Steve. Beyond 6x focus becomes an issue, hence the parallax knobs, which have a dual function. Objective size and shake also take a toll. Townsend Whelen believed 2.5x was enough for big game out to 350 yards, saying FoV and eye relief were more important than high power. | |||
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Yeah, what year was that? Don't you think our scopes have improved somewhat since 1929? I think Mr Whelen would have a different opinion if he were shooting todays glass. I agree you can make "hits" on animals at long distances with low power scopes but there is a "real" advantage to a higher magnification scope. For my uses I like knowing that I can pick a spot on that animal and hit it resulting in a clean if not instant kill rather than a wish and a prayer. | |||
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The years have not changed the fact that FoV and eye relief are much more important than high magnification. Today, many hunt by bunkering down and setting up like they are at the target range. Each to their own, but that's a poor form of hunting for me. I can ring a 6" gong at 300 yards all day from field positions with a 4x scope. Give me a well-fitting rifle with an optic with a wide FoV and good eye relief over high magnification every time. Tunnel vision in the field is always a bad thing. It is a story I've seen and heard many times: a nice animal lost because the guy was using high magnification (no FoV) and when the animal took a couple steps, he was lost and not reaquired in time to take a shot, if at all. Everyone should chose what makes them comfortable and confident but I can say that in my experience the number one reason for lost shots on game is excessive magnification. | |||
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Steve, Kudos! I have always used a variable, but always keep it on the “lowest” power setting. If I “need” more magnification....I “will” have time to “dial it up”! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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Is blundering through the bush hoping to bump an animal out of scrub at close range a better form of hunting than sneaking in to the edge of a feeding area and intersecting the path of game undetected? If the bush is thick and encounters short and quick an aimpoint or similar red dot is probably a handier optic than a 4x. Where game is sighted unawares and partially obscured by scrub I prefer to be able to wind up to 6 or even 8x to place the shot in the target animal rather than in the tree it's standing behind, or through it and into a second member of the herd - it may not be as sporting as closing the gap and then hoping to clip it with a running shot as it bursts from the scrub but it usually fills my freezer  Saying that, I've flights booked next month to return to some country I havent hunted in since 2010, given I cant tell just how clogged with silver wattle the gullies have become in my absence I'll probably take both a 1-4x and a 2,5-10x, still have to decide which barrel though  Formerly Gun Barrel Ecologist | |||
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I admit some old-timers had a simplistic outlook on scopes and recall a pre-war Zeiss ad that assumed open sights were OK out to 200 yards and therefor a 4x should do to 800. But Townsend Whelen wasn't one of those. He saw the use of 8x scopes with big objectives on sniper rifles, so enemy snipers could be spotted in the shadows, under logs. Maybe my education has been neglected. Does having high magnification allow you to see movement from the beating heart? | |||
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to GBE: If I get the to point that I am "blundering through the brush hoping to bump an animal" it will be time for me to stop hunting! As I posted earlier, and I think in line with your comments, when I hunt expecting shots at 125 and less (shotgun slugs and pistol-caliber rifles, or handguns) nothing beats a reflex sight. My hunting rifles wear 1-4x or 1.5-6x scopes (depending on caliber and purpose) which I carry set near the lower end. I can turn it up if need be. 6x has proven plenty to cleanly take big game at 500 yards although I rarely shoot at game over 300. Can someone effectively use 8 - 9 - or 10x at 300 yards and more? Sure they can. But at shorter ranges that magnification is often a detriment and more magnification is begging for lost shots. The many drawbacks and limitations of big, heavy, large objective diameter, complex reticle, high variable magnification scopes have always outweighed any limited benefit high magnification might theoretically provide. In fact, the high magnification itself can prove a serious drawback and hinder accurate shot placement. Not talking target rifles here, just hunting rifles. That's just my experience and my preferences resulting from it. Your mileage may differ. Good hunting! | |||
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No need to stop hunting Steve, just move to Victoria, buy a game licence and adopt a “where there’s lead in the air there’s hope” philosophy   Anyhow, let’s agree it’s horses for courses, I’m becoming a fan of red dots once I got over the lost field if used with only one eye open, I’m also a fan of the 8x56 for night work. The 1.5-6x42 with an illuminated reticle is the ultimate compromise. Formerly Gun Barrel Ecologist | |||
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Ok, it's a deal then. BTW, I always shoot with both eyes open - handguns, rifles, shotguns, iron sights, reflex sights, scopes, the works. The only exception is trap. I shoot trap with one eye closed. | |||
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Most likely a Leupold of some type 1x4 or 3x9 after that a Burris of the same gender. I hardly ever use just one rifle, scope combination. One season I use a different rifle, scope, caliber each day. Depending on the hunting conditions it is not unreasonable for me to carry 3 or four different rifles and scopes during a season. Some times I change them out during the day. Some times just because I want to. What the use of owning 50 or so rifles if one doesn't get them out and exercise them. | |||
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I don't own 50 rifles but if I am going any distance for a hunt of any kind I take two to three rifles. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I used to pack several rifles when I would travel to hunt but no longer. Let's say I am going to WY to hunt elk, mulies and antalope, I take a "elk" rifle and use it for everything. With the same load. I do take a back up scope sighted in on that particular rifle. Knock on wood, I've never had to go to the back up (so far). Regardless of the rifle, it'll wear a Leuy or an older Weaver with rather modest power. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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When I go to Montana this fall on a Mule deer hunt for the two of us we well take 3 rifles one main each and a back up. Switching rifles is one of them for around the house things. | |||
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We (wife and I) “live” In Wyoming, and we each use one rifle/caliber/ bullet/ zero for “all” of our big game hunting....from antelope up to moose. Using the same rifle for everything, is like putting on a perfect fitting pair of boots....it just feels right! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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When it was easy for me to climb the hills a 99F 358 with a 4x Lyman could see the 4" antlers up north. Now I stay closer to the car and enjoy shooting many fine rifles. A current favorite wears a 3-9x36 Swarovski on a custom mauser.  | |||
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 Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says. When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like! Do that with your optics. | |||
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I have always been "Old School" when it comes to scopes, I am a firm believer in the "K.I.S.S." method of doing business, Keep It Simple Stupip! Even my 3x9 Leupold on my .300 Weatherby stays set on 6 power. Over the years in talking to several folks most or the majority of them claim that even with their variable scopes, the majority of their shots are taken with the scope set on 6 power. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Have a couple of Conquest 1.8-5.5x38...really like them. | |||
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I've already started the year on my bear trapline and shooting bounty beavers for bait. I've alternated between 3.5-10 x 40 and 4.5-14 x 50 Mark 4s on a Custom Sako 7-300 Win. The power doesn't matter much for dispatching bears; but the turrets have proven useful for shooting at a sliver of a moving beaver's head from a moving boat. I'm using the same 4.5-14 Mark 4 (TMR) and 7-300 rifle for red and fallow culling in August; with a Weatherby Accumark in 270 'Bee and 4.5-14 x 50 VX3 LR with Illuminated B&C as a companion rifle. In the meantime and in between times there's a fleet of VX3s, VXLs, VX3 LRs in mostly 3.5-10 and 4.5-14 with B&C reticles with a few CDSs and turrets for variety riding on sporting rifles. | |||
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One or more of the following; Leupold 3-9 x 40 VX-II Leupold 3.5-10 x 40 VX-III Kales 3-9 x 42 I recently bought a Leupold 3-9 x 33 Compact, but it can't readily be mounted far enough to the rear for acceptable eye relief without some complicated mounting arrangements.  GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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We've got one and I think it is a good power range for woods hunting but the long objective cone makes it vulnerable to bumps. | |||
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Can you tell what us more about this | |||
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A fixed 4x scope, built with good glass, will suffice for 99% of the hunting that most will actually do, unless you've got vision like Fudley McGoo. Then the real answer isn't a higher-magnification scope; it's modern LASIK procedure. All The Best ... | |||
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I am pretty darn sure your estimate of 99% is off by about 50%. A 4x fixed scope does not and will not work for me and just about everyone I know that hunts or hunt with. It may be perfect from a Texas box blind but where I hunt it is not even in the running and my eyes are real sharp. Different styles of hunting require different scopes so you can't even come close with blanket statements. Something in the 3-9, 3.5-10, 2.5-8 seems to fit the bill when you are in and out of heavy cover one minute then looking at open hillsides and canyons the next. My dad taught me and I've taught my sons you keep your scope on low or close to it and turn it up when you need it and always remember to turn it back down. There is never time to turn your scope down if you need it but more often than not there will be time to turn it up. | |||
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Anything approaching 200; I am going to want at least 6x and if I am going beyond 250 7-10x. I find holding anything over 10x rock steady under field conditions to be difficult. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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So given good glass comes out of Europe, who still makes a fixed 4x with good glass? I spent (readed wasted) far too much time today trying to find a pig hit and ultimately lost by another hunter with a fixed 4x. For the shot provided and taken a variable would have been a far better option. Formerly Gun Barrel Ecologist | |||
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And that was the scopes fault? Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Not much to say; we have legal bear trapping and I have a trapline. That means that I basically have no limit on the amount of bears I can take although seasons do apply. The beavers are considered pests in many areas due to the flooding they cause and local RMs will often offer a bounty to encourage taking them. With the collapse of their fur value the bounty and castor is the only value they have other than their use as bear bait. Its not a bad deal for me, I'll take the beavers that I need anyway, get paid a bit for doing it, and recycle them as bear bait then sell the bears. | |||
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