Does anyone know if the barrel contour of the International (RSI) matches that of either the Frontier or the Compact? I want the Manlicher and I want iron sights. The RSI has these. I'm also putting together a rifle for my 10 year old. The smaller stocks of the Frontier and Compact are perfect for him. I'd like to get the RSI and put one of the smaller stocks on it for the time being. I can then change it back when he's full size.

citori,

maybe more important than barrel contour, what chambering are you planning for the 10 yr old?

I'm deciding between .308 Win. and 7mm-08. Less recoil with the latter. The former can use milsurp ammo and I can load to a lower recoil level. I'll likely go with .308..

I considered a .243 initially, but I've heard too many people question it's effectiveness on game.

Citori,

the last thing I want to stir up is the inevitable hornet's nest of cartridge choice, but without knowing anything other than the age of your son, I'm wondering if either of the chamberings you mention might be a bit much for a 10 year old to shoot accurately and still be fun?

My reasoning... my boy, who's now nearly 15, and as tall as me, started on the traditional route at the age of 8 with a shortened 22, progressed to 223, etc., has used 30-06, my 270, on a reasonably regular basis (and taken a lot of game with them), has fired 375, 458, and so on... but there was always something missing in terms of his enjoyment.

Years ago I was a firearms instructor in our military, and am still an 'instructor/coach' in my club..

We both do a lot of hunting, and we also participate in Military Rifle shoots, using our hunting rifles (great practice!!) We also have a background in farming, so rifles have been a part of our life since before he was born.

I bought him a 243 about a year ago, and there was a marked difference in his attitude to range practice (ie, development of marksmanship skills)..

His first response was WOW!! This thing is fun!! It doesn't hurt! He'd never mentioned the 'hurt' factor before, I guess because he wanted to be a 'man'... like his Dad...

I'd rather he take his 243 into the field than my 270... we shoot a LOT of Fallow deer, goats and feral dogs (pest extermination... even the deer)... and he's full of confidence... and always delivers.

The 243 wouldn't be my first choice for fallow, but he's so much more accurate with it than with the 270, it's embarrasing....

And this is a kid who handles a 12g well enough to be considered for a scholarship to our National Institute of Sport...

I know what he was like at age 10, may I respectfully suggest you re-consider the 243? If it ain't fun, he'll either endure the process, and most likely wound the game... or decide it's all too hard, and give up... not a good outcome for anyone...

Also, like you, I underestimated the effectiveness of the 243 on game... boy was I wrong!! As with any rifle, it's shot placement that matters, not how much noise it makes!!

A kid who's comfortable and confident with a 243 will outshoot a 'macho man' carrying a larger rifle any day.... I've seen it.

Them's my thoughts...

Rugeruser,

Why are you making this so hard for me?

Seriously, THANK YOU for such a thoughtful response. All that you have said has a funny ring of truth to it. Do you think a .243 would be a reasonable choice for Grants Gazelle, Wathog, and Impala? These are what my boys will be after in August. If the .243 is up to the task, there's an M77 compact available locally that would be perfect. Do you think the lighter weight of this rifle offsets the reduced recoil of the .243? The little Compact fits him well.

Citori, I had one of the Ruger RSI's chambered in 308 Win. and I couldn't keep four shots on a 6" target from 100 yds with any ammo, handloads or big green. I have a couple of M77s that are real shooters but I won't even think about another RSI. I wouldn't mind an M77CR though.

Citori,

thanks...

I'm not in a position to comment on the suitability of a 243 on the game you mention (I wish I was!!)...

Here's my take on it...

The game we shoot (pigs, goats, fallow, etc.,) rarely weigh more than about 60 - 80kg's... however they're very often 'snap' shots at moving animals.. marksmanship and confidence is paramount!

By using his 243, my boy has developed confidence in his marksmanship to take challenging shots.

When we hunt together, I carry my 270, he carries his 243. When the occasion demands, I hand him my 270, and off he goes.. he has the confidence, backed up by real (and comfortable) practice, to know that he will hit the target animal, because he's spent a lot of time using his 243 at the range (and hunting). The fact that the 270 kicks a bit harder becomes a non-issue because it's a 'one off' situation.

The excitement of the moment takes over, and he connects - the recoil doesn't bother him at all.

The key issue (in my mind) is that he has spent a lot of time learning the 'how' of shooting, and that learning has been 'fun' for him... using a heavier calibre becomes a non-issue at that moment.

I would add that we also spend a LOT of time in the bush learning the 'how' of hunting... I call it 'armed bushwalking'.. often, we don't fire a shot, even though we're both carrying rifles.

Combine the two, and to my mind, you'll develop a true 'hunter', who understands the game, the environment, and his abilities.

I can tell you, when you get that, it brings that tear to your eye...

If the M77 RSI were available in 260 Remington or 6.5X55, one of those would be my pick.

I think that Ruger 77 MK2 RSIs were only cataloged in 243 and 308 in the short action and 270 and 30-06 in the long action, so a 7mm-08 would require some custom work. I think that you'd be money ahead with a Remington 7 and a 7 Youth Stock.

Jeff

Back on topic ... I have had this same question. What is the difference in the barrel contours for purposes of customizing one of these little honeys?

Can you lop 3 1/2" off the standard barrel and refit it to the action?

A 6.5x55 or a 7x57 would be soooooo cool in an 77 RSI!

There are a few tang safety 77 RSIs in 7x57 floating around, I have owned 2 of them. It would be pretty easy to mate a 77R barreled action in either 6.5x55 or 7x57 with a 77 RSI stock. I have a 77 RSI in 257 Roberts that a guy in FL had made up from a 77 RL barreled action and a 77 RSI stock.

Jeff

Omaha,

You sure about that? The parts book on the Ruger website says:

NOTE: The Manlicher style stock used on the M77RSI Mark II, International Model, fits only the International Model. Neither the stock nor its fittings are interchangeable with corresponding parts of other M77 Mark II models. The front sight base and the front sight blade for the International Model are not interchangeable with corresponding parts of other M77 Mark II models.

I wonder what would have to be "dun" to "gitter"?

Am I sure about what?

Jeff

Sako use to catalog a line of Mannlicher stocked rifles as does CZ...I have a lot of Rugers, no RSIs.. I love the looks, but I have never seen one that could be accused of being a tack driver....

The CZ or the Sako would be more money.... but consider what the trip to Africa is going to run.. it would be cheap insurance to get an accurate rifle you don't have to ding around with, especially if it is for your son....

RSIs only come in a 243, 308, 270 and 30/06....I love a 243, but it would not be my pick in this rifle.....

CZs offer 6.5 x 55, and 7 x 57, along with 30/06, 280 ( I think) along with 9.3 x 62 and a few more...

Sako offered all the way thru a 375 H & H....

Just some thoughts....

good luck to you and your son in africa....
and cheers....
seafire

Citori,

getting back to the topic, are you buying the gun for your son, or for you?

It's a once in a lifetime opportunity for him to have some VERY special memories which he will share with you for the rest of your lives... don't blow it by ignoring his needs and buying what you want...

Reason I pose that question? How many 10 year old kids want a Mannlicher with iron sights?

When my daughter was 14 and my older son was 11 took them to Africa. The original intent was for me to have an extensive safari (wasn't my first one) and them to each shoot an animal, maybe two. Took their nearly 80 year old Grandmother (my Mother) with us too.

Had so much fun watching them that I never shot anything and they both took several animals from wildebeest to bushbucks.

The 14 year old used a Ruger 77V (varmint barrel) in 308 Winchester with 180 grain Nosler Partitions. The 11 year old used a Ruger in 243 Win with Partitions except on his wildebeest when he borrowed his sister's 308.

The kids handloaded all their ammo and worked up their own loads. Sighted in their own rifles.

We had the rifle stocks cut to fit them. They each practiced every weekend for six months prior to the hunt. We started with handloads loaded to cast bullet velocities and slowly worked up to moderate loads. They both became very good.

They took every African animal with one shot. Never needed a backup from the PH.

They and I had a great time and the trip is one of our fondest memories. Their Grandmother was in on every hunt. She loved every minute of it. The PH and their staff treated her like royalty.

When the same son was 12 he took a 6x6 Idaho elk. Again, textbook in everyway.

While I enjoy a variety of calibers, I would not consider a 243 Win with Nolser Partitions a handicap.

For kids the varmint weight barrels and their reduced recoil is a consideration.

Hammer