This is my first foray outside of the Hunting forum, so hopefully I will not breach any local protocols!

I've just purchased a 1947 Griffin & Howe Mauser-action .275 Rigby (7x57). It is a beautiful rifle, though clearly intended for field use and not as a wall hanger. I've got to show it off, so here it is:





Before taking final delivery I'm looking at making some respectful upgrades (e.g., modifying the schnabel tip to a standard ebony tip; installing an M70-style three-position safety; installing EAW quick release scope mounts; replacing the Redfield scope with a Schmidt & Bender 2.5x12; perhaps replacing the very large Lyman rear sight with something smaller, etc.). I intend for this to become my 'go to' rifle both here and in Africa for all but dangerous game.

Since I'm not a handloader and would like to find a convenient and reasonable source for all-around hunting ammo. For my .30-06, I'm using Remington Premium Swift A-Frame in 180 grains, and for my wife's .270 she's using Remington Premium Swift Scirocco II ammo in 130 grains.

Checking the internet and places like Cabelas, there doesn't seem to be a lot of choice in 7x57. Is there an equivalent factory load to the Remington's above that are available with either A-Frames or Scirocco II bullets? Or perhaps using Barnes Trophy Bonded Bearclaw? What other bullets that are available as factory loads should I consider? My inclination is to go with 139 or 140 grain bullets as most of my game will be mid-sized plains game.

Thanks, guys!

I suggest that you check out Midway"s website, they seem to have a very good selection.

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
I suggest that you check out Midway"s website, they seem to have a very good selection.

Great suggestion; one of the few I didn't check, and they are the easiest to find the full selection of a particular caliber ammo. The best they offer appears to be Federal Premium Vital-Shok Ammunition with 140 Grain Nosler Partition at $39 for 20. What is the reputation of this bullet?

I've also ordered a test pack of four different loadings of 140 grain Barnes Triple Shock from Safari Arms. They will load to SAAMI specs rather than the reduced pressures common with most factory loads for the 7x57 (2,800 fps vs. 2,600 fps).

A Safari Arms test pack of 20 runs $58 with the follow-on order in whatever load works best costing $48 per 20. Seems a good deal for a premium bullet, right?

A 140gr Nosler part will hold up to anything a 7x57 can give it. Hornady makes superperformance in 7x57. For most things you hunt with a 7x57 you wouldn't need a Part. Norma also loads their 156 in the 7x57.

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:

I've just purchased a 1947 Griffin & Howe Mauser-action .275 Rigby (7x57). It is a beautiful rifle, though clearly intended for field use and not as a wall hanger. I've got to show it off, so here it is:





Before taking final delivery I'm looking at making some respectful upgrades (e.g., modifying the schnabel tip to a standard ebony tip; installing an M70-style three-position safety; installing EAW quick release scope mounts; replacing the Redfield scope with a Schmidt & Bender 2.5x12; perhaps replacing the very large Lyman rear sight with something smaller, etc.).


Thanks, guys!

That is a super rifle and you are certainly free to do with it as you wish but from what I have learned from my own hard earned experience, modifying a genuine classic like your G&H is a bit of sacrelige. Things like the schnabble forend tip were useful for mountain hunting where you could use the rifle as a climbing aid when going up steep hills. The very first sheep hunting client I ever guided carried a similar G&H rifle in 7x57 and it was great to see it still in use. I would suggest you try it awhile as it is and if you do decide to change it to to someone capable of doing work equal to what G&H did.

You might find the heavier the bullets work best in it. It depends a lot on the rifling twist and the older 7x57 rifles are generally encountered with faster twists then the newer ones.

I used to shoot a lot of 7x57 through a couple of old rifles and, although 140gr bullets worked okay, 160gr bullets shot more accurately. I also had pretty good results with Norma's 156gr factory loads.

As far as changing the rifle: If you send it to Griffin & Howe for G&H removable top ring mounts and let them reshape the forend tip then it will still be a Griffin & Howe.

I would have a real hard time changing anything on that gun, other than possibly qr mounts.

That's a beauty!

You can't beat a seven, classy round with a lot of history- and in a G-H '98 at that with a straight bolt handle.

I especially like the rear sight in combination with a scope mounted, what mount is the rear?

Hornady makes some 7mm that is worth looking at, my father-in-law is using it right now in a Heim bolt action hunting antelope and deer (and I'm not because I came down with shingles last week ).

google the ammo and I think you'll find a fair selection.

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
I would have a real hard time changing anything on that gun, other than possibly qr mounts.

I know how you feel

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
As far as changing the rifle: If you send it to Griffin & Howe for G&H removable top ring mounts and let them reshape the forend tip then it will still be a Griffin & Howe.

Great idea.

I gotta agree with Moorepower. I wouldn't change a thing.
I also agree with the idea of heavier bullets. You could easily check the twist and determine that.

BTW, neat rifle

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
As far as changing the rifle: If you send it to Griffin & Howe for G&H removable top ring mounts and let them reshape the forend tip then it will still be a Griffin & Howe.

I've already been talking with them; they were the ones that suggested a few updates. Apparently more than a few G&H owners are dusting off their prized collector pieces and taking them to the field again - which is where the belong!

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Unfortunately, I think someone is either a schnabel type or not, and I'm definitely not.

KPete,

Fantasic looking rifle! Glad to hear you are going to put that beauty to good use.

It is certainly your rifle to do as you wish and your requirements should drive how it is set-up, etc.

My suggestion would be to take delivery of the rifle before you make any modifications and see what does not work for you. Then, I would probably change the safety (but keep all the original parts) and change out the mounts and scope to your liking. If the stock fit me and I could live with the Lyman sight (as long as it did not interfer with function) I would just leave it as is...but again all that is up to you!

Best of luck with your new acquistion!

the only thing i'd change would be scope mounts, i like the QRW leupold rings for weaver style bases or the QR style that fit leupold bases... with the 1 piece base you've currently got, the rear bridge may not be tapped with 2 holes... and i'd keep the weaver scope on it... even tho its not as pricey as your choice of a schmidt... those old steel weavers' are hard to beat...

I think I would sell that stock before lopping off that great tip!

Not a whole lot is in stock at Midway, but there are plenty of good choices there. Unless you are after elk/oryx or other very tough type game, the Nosler might be a bit overkill, especially at 7x57 speeds. But, try a bunch, see what your rifle likes. The Hornady superformance stuff was very accurate for me in another caliber, and the GMX bullet would be a great all around for anything type load. Plus its fairly cheap.

most 7mm's have either a 1-9 or 1-9 1/2 twist rate.
you can order a 1-10 twist bbl. which i did for my 7x57 ackley.
what makes them like either heavier or lighter bullets is the cut of thier throats.
i'd try some 139's from hornady.
and also some of thier 154's , before i did anything else.
hornady's standard interlock bullet is rather good and is my choice for all around hunting at 2850 fps.
including elk.
but i load my own, and i am not sure of thier factory load velocities.

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:
I've just purchased a 1947 Griffin & Howe Mauser-action .275 Rigby (7x57). It is a beautiful rifle, though clearly intended for field use and not as a wall hanger. I've got to show it off, so here it is:

Kim,

These old style stocks have a lot of drop at the comb and heel. I would not pair it off with a huge scope, being heavy and having a large objective bell making the scope sit even higher above the centre of bore. You will lose a steady cheeck weld and that is not conducive to accurate shooting. Keep it sleek and trim and go for a 3-9x36 mm scope - something like the Swarovski Z3 for low mounting, at least that would counter the drop of the stock.

If you want the real power or full potential out of your 7x57 mm Mauser consider becoming a reloader. Then all those premium bullets can work for you and elevate your caliber to something much better a more potent. Bullets like Swift A-Frame and North Fork will serve you well.

Warrior

I see a problem with using the mauser safety and a scope. Cannot for life of me understand messing with the stock.

Why not buy a new gun and leave this historic gun for someone who appreciates the style and and capable of using the (assumed)original peep site. That would be more than just "where it belongs" but "how it should be used".

None of my business, I know. I am not on a holy crusade. But since the gun was posted and a conversation opened, guess I add my 2c, FWIW.

Agreed. I would change the scope to the Swaro and leave the rifle as is, I use a similar setup on many of my P-64 Mod. 70s and it has worked well in BC for over 20 years. Gorgeous G&H, one of the nicest, overall, that I have seen and I would love to own it.

Unless you bought it for a museum piece, I think that you absolutely should keep and shoot your classic rifle.

The stock has been shaped for use of the iron sights. Personally, I find that arrangement most useful. It is easy to rotate the head up to get a clear view through a scope but it is very difficult to squeeze your cheek into a high stock to get a clear view over open sights.

The Buehler style safety on that rifle is my favorite style for the mauser. It is not the original mauser safety and it works perfectly well as-is with a scope. I see no reason to change it but if the Winchester style is your preference then have it changed.

There is a very good chance that the schnable tip can simply be reshaped.

If G&H does the work then it remains pure G&H. If another qualified firm or smith does the work then it would still be a G&H rifle but with a minor alteration or two. Few people, if any, would be able to tell the difference and only a purist would care.

Take it out and shoot it. That's what it was made for.

I really like your new classic rifle in a great caliber.

I agree that this stock will have alot of drop and was designed for iron sights. So keeping a low profile scope system is a key to getting that gun comfortable and quick to use.

Take a look at the Leupold Vari-XII 3x9x33 Ultralight Scope with the Long Range reticle. It will cost half of any European scope and do the job just as well and is very low profile. With this scope you should have room to use Leupold QR Low Mounts and still have clearance. At only 8.8oz, that scope would also help lighten what is already a fairly heavy mauser rifle.

Others will differ with me here as to bullet selection, but I really like heavier bullets. My favorite bullet for the 7x57 for most shooting is the 175gr Speer Spitzer, at least out to 200yards, pushed at around 2500fps. Hornady used to factory load that round; don't know if they still do. Your rifle is pretty old, and back then the heavier bullets were primarily used, so your gun may like the 175's alot. I have also used the 139gr, but I believe heavier bullets have greater effects. It also raises the bar for what you can take with the 7x57.

Good luck and congratulations. Mike

Kim: You have such a wonderful classic in your hands. You really should hand load for it, or find a friend or custom loader to make up your hunting loads.
As to modifying the G&H stock, I would have a second stock made for the rifle so that you can keep the original intact and preserve the value of the gun.

You should try the Federal 175 grain. It is rated for near 2400 fps. Handloading, you can get about 110 fps more. The 175 is all I use when not firing cast bullets. Really works well on deer. If you have good eyes, I would ditch the scope and figure out your come-ups with the peep sights existing on that rifle. Very nice purchase!

As others have said, it's yours to butcher but I sure wouldn't touch that beautiful forend.

Find a friend who handloads and have him work up some loads for you. The 7x57 factory stuff is really anemic, it's downloaded because of the fear of blowing up some of the old junk chambered for it. It's a cartridge that really needs handloads to get the best out of it.

One name that I don't see mentioned is RWS ammo. It is exceptionally well made, does exactly as it says on the box and has both a light and heavy bullet option.

I was also very impressed with the quality of PMP (south african) ammo, which I tried for the first time this year on mine.

So, RWS for when not in Africa (and when you are there, RWS is well represented) and PMP when you are there. These are loaded to modern firearm specs (RWS: 2700fps with the 175gn bullet! I handload and can't get that out of 140gn!) and nothing to do with the anemic S...T remington is peddling...oh, and when in the concentricity gauge, neither RWS or PMP gave much over 2thou runout. Not bad for factory loaded ammo!

best wishes,

Finman

I wouldn't change a thing personally. Perhaps you could call Superior ammo for advice on loads since factory ammo is not ideal for 7mm. They can load a variety pack to see what shoots best in your rifle. Kind of pricey but I would think you would want the best for such a classy rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by boltman:
As others have said, it's yours to butcher but I sure wouldn't touch that beautiful forend.

Absolutely and totally agree!!

- mike

Nice rifle!

A quick question... is there a second part to the peep that needs to be put on when the scope is removed or am I just not seeing the aperture?

Put a fixed 4x on it and fugettaboutit.

I had a No.1 in 7x57 and I learned there all about the barrel twist. Would spread 140's but 175's shot well under an inch. Get with LArry at Superior and have fun.

Baxter it is my impression that the rifle was originally equipped with iron sights only. The bridge mount certainly has the look of something added as it would have to be removed to use the peep sight.

Jerry Liles

Kpete

You obviously have good taste and a few dollars to select this rifle in the first place.

The rifle is an absolute classic as is .
Listen to the part of you that decided to buy it in the first place and don't do a thing but learn how to shoot it.

And possibly replace the scope

If you want a rifle to modify, buy a Remington 700.

Covey 16

Changing a classic and beautifully made rifle isn't like making a mistake on a term paper where an erasure will allow you to back up. I see nothing gained by screwing with the tip and a lot to be lost.

The Lyman slight slide is a dummy, made to protect the base when the actual rear sight has been removed to permit low mounting a scope.

How a M70 safety is supposed to be an improvement over the nicely modified M98 safety eludes me.

The old Redfield scope is still likely to be as good as a hunter needs. Most real hunters will 'stare' through a scope for maybe as long as 3-5 seconds before shooting. For that, 'good enough optics' seems to be plenty good enough!

Those old rifle stocks were made for shooting off-hand; a more careful shot from a rest allows accomidation time for the stock's drop. There is no way to accomidate a bench/prone stock for jump shooting tho.

Lay a good double barreled quail shotgun over the rifle and you will see them to be very simular and ditto the balance; both features are GREAT for snap-shootin' in deep woods.

The old guys knew what they were doing and what they were doing was making hunting rigs, not bench/target rigs. A LOT of our current "modern" gun tastes are not improvements for hunting needs.

Change the scope if you want, although I would go with something smaller and lower. Making any other changes would be like "touching up" the Mona Lisa.