I had a 35 Wheelen AI put together with the followign components: Stiller Predator action, Jewell trigger, 25" Hart barrel 1/14 twist, bedded into McMillian hunter stock.

Can't get it to shoot!! Getting 1 shot dead, next shot 1" high left, next shot into the first hole, next shot low left by an inch.

Using 225gr SGK, 225 Accubond. tried RL15, IMR4064 at various charge weights all individually weighed.

I checked the scope and mounts. Even changed scope. trigger is fantastic but just ain't shooting well. Bedding seems fine as well.

I'm thinking something is wrong with the barrel, or possiby the chambering. I was thinking of asking Hart to look at it first. mainly because my smith had done 4 AI's for me and they have all been excellent shooting rifles. 5 shot .5's to .75's consistent. So I'm leaning toward ruling out barrel first, and don't want to spend $30 each way to have my smith check it and say it's probably the barrel.

What do yuo guys think? Am I overlooking anything?

The smith who built the rifle should examine everything at no charge to determine what is the problem and unless you can hand deliver the rifle to Hart you still have shipping and they will probably charge for the inspection because they didn't do the work.
Before sending it anywhere:
Check the scope, the mounts(make sure the front screw isn't touching the barrel extension), the runout of the fired case, the runout of the loaded ammo, the crown and have someone else shoot the rifle as verification of the problem.

1st Go over your scope and mounts to be sure that they are not the issue.

2nd Inspect your handloads and go over your reloading proceedure to be sure it is not an ammo issue.

If both of these are fine then answer this question:

Did you pay your gunsmith to merely assembly your puzzle pieces or to deliver your a working rifle?

I would contact the gunsmith that built the rifle. Talk to the man about what is going on with your new rifle. If it is something that he screwed up he should eat the shipping charges.

None of the following comments are intended to be insulting or insuating any problems with YOU, so please don't take them that way.

First, have you used other Jewell triggers set at the same weight of pull? I only ask that because some shooters have trouble with their first use of Jewells, if they are set too light. Often they don't know they are even having a trigger control problem, except that accuracy is not what they get with other rifles and triggers. Been there, done that myself years ago.

Next, though it can't hurt to check ammo runout, I very seriously doubt it will cause your rifle to throw shots an inch out of where they should be going at 100 yards. Maybe at long range, but not at short range like that.

I say that because using similar quality equipment (Panda action, Hart barrel, Jewell trigger, Hale stock, I have won benchrest matches where I seated my bullets by putting the bullet on top of the case, then putting the bullet tip against the side of the concrete shooting bench and pushing the bullet into the case neck by putting my body weight against the base of the case!

No seating die at all, just my fingers guiding the bullet into the case.

My suspicion is you MAY have a bad scope on the rifle...one where the internal adjustments are not moved by other lighter-recoiling rounds, but where the 35 or so ft. pounds of recoil force of the Whelen does jostle the crosshairs around a thousandth of an inch or so at a time inside the scope tube. Normally, .001" change in windage or elevation at the sights mneans about an inch movement at the 100 yard target.

We could speculate all day, but before you send the rifle anywhere, let me suggest an experiment.

Shoot the gun from the same bench 10 times, using the same rests, etc., but with the gun UNLOADED.

Watch through the scope to see if the crosshairs move ANY AT ALL on the target when the striker falls.

If it does, something is either wrong with your shooting technique with that particular rifle, OR your scope or something in it is loose.

I had exactly the same problem with another one of my benchrest rifles (Wichita 1.375 action, Hart barrel, Jewell trigger, Hale stock).

With me, I found that with THAT rifle I had to not touch the gun at all during shooting, except for the trigger lever. Some guns like to be held, some don't, and that one definitely doesn't.

Obviously, your Whelan can't be used by touching only the trigger, but if the reticule is moving when you drop the striker on a round, you are going to have to find out WHY it is doing it and cure that. If you cure that and it still doesn't shoot well for you, THEN is the time to send it to others and maybe pay money for them to find the trouble.

Just my thoughts at this point in the investigation. Hope any of them help you.

Edited to add:

Since if the problem is inside your scope, but requires recoil to make it happen, then dry firing won't show it. Another way to test for a scope problem is to try at least two other scopes on the same rifle in live fire. It is quite possible to have two bad scopes on there in a row, but extremely unlikely to have three consecutive ones.

How many rounds have been down the barrel?
I once had a Hart barrel put on a M-721 and it took a good 80 rounds or more to settle in. Once it broke in it was a good shooter.
So I sold it.

FWIW
Also once had a BRAND NEW (front) Leupold "twist in type" ring come loose in the base. Couldn't notice it until a bore sight was placed in the snoot by a smith. Could see it then.
Swithched to good old Weaver bases and top mount rings and never had any issue again with that rifle.
Am keeping that one.

Pointing out the stupid obvious...(*because I've NEVER done this myself...)

I presume you are benchresting the rifle for accuracy and shooting off a rest or sandbags...Are you putting the forestock on the rest in exactly the same place each time?

Ran into a guy at the range this weekend who was shooting all over the place. I watched him and noted he was shooting with the BARREL on the rest on some shots...and the forend on other shots!

Having done this myself, I can guarantee it will shift the point of impact about 1-2" each freaking time.

Wrap a piece of tape (blue painters, electrical, etc.) and use that as your marker point for where to put the rifle on the rest. It worked wonders for me.

I had a similar problem with a Win 70, post 64, in 375H&H. Problem turned out to be bedding; the action was jumpimg to a different spot in the stock after each shot. Hill Country rifles had the necessary medication, and upon return, it drove tacks.

One other possiblility. If the rifle is bedded properly but the barrel is free floated, you could get variations in impact just because of the way you rest it on the bench. Resting on the fore end can result in recoil vibrations against the fore end if the free floating is very marginal. If it has fore end pressure on the barrel, then it will definitely be an issue.

Here is a scenario that I experience in my early days of center fire shooting & reloading about 17 years ago. The rilfe was a Rem Classic 243 & it was a factory stock not free floated but with a bit of barrel pressure at the tip of the fore end. I used to rest the forend on a sandbag and shoot. The groups used to move around. So I decided to shoot with the rifle resting in exactly the same place each time. The groupd shrunk to less than an inch for 5 shots. But off hand they would print 2 inches low. I lost a deer because of that. I then started resting it on the magazine area behind the action ring. This gave me even better accuracy & consistant point of impact when shooting off hand as well.

I have had other rifles change point of impact simply because of the way the rilfe is rested on the fore end on sand bags. This seems to matter more with some rifles than others.

Hope you solve your problem soon.

Guys, I appreciate all the advice. Runout on loaded as well as the fired is very small. That was one of the first thing I checked.

Jewell triggers: Love em! Experienced with them. Have 7 of em. IMHO they make shooting easy! And I am certainly far from recoil sensitive. 338RUM with full load is about where I say no mas! I shoot a lot fo 450M and 45/70. 35 hits you hard but it's not causing a flinch.

As far as benching goes, I am using a Sinclair multi purpose top and a top quality rear bag. Same setup I have used for about 3 years now. I do place the stock in the same shooting position every shot...habit I cannot break even if I tried.

I have nearly 300 rounds thru it so far.

So, AC I think I will give your suggestion a try. On the scope...and then I would think on to the smith for bedding check.

Let someone else give it a go. Not saying it is but it could be shooter error.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
Let someone else give it a go. Not saying it is but it could be shooter error.

Nada...shooting 3 or 4 other rifles at the same time with no issues.

had a friend (dead now) that shot thepalma team for years. he'd go through several barrels each year. when he would screw a barrel on that wouldn't shoot within 100 rds, he'd throw it away and screw on a new one. guess i do the same now

Hello,
I read some where that harmonics can raise hell with accuracy in some cases.
The Swiss had this problem with the K-31 and had a harmonic dampner that attached to the barrel.
Could this be your problem, I kind of doubt it.

Good Luck,
John

Time to fess up; I spent a long time figuring out what was up with this rifle. Looks like bedding!!!! Barrel is freefloated but not 100%.

Let me explain, I took a dollar bill and it slides under the barrel no problem. As mentioned before, it's a Hart barrel. The chamber area of the barrel just aft of the recoil lug, the dollar bill binds. This SHOULD be my issue.

Smith wants it back to re-bed. No fee or course, and shipping on him. I so like my smith I felt like a little kid even telling him one of his rifles wouldn't shoot.

Have to add: I so much love his attitude. I wish he sold something like cars!!! He e-mailed me a statement.....Get it back to me ASAP and I'll do whatever it takes to make her shoot!!

I'll let you know how goes it when I get it back.

be interested to hear your final analysis, it probably is the barrel contact....I like a fair bit more than a dollar bills width for clearance at any rate just FWIW...The other thing you might outa check before sending it bac,--which you probably have--you sound pretty experienced and thorough, but are the action screws torqued properly--a little off on that can make a big difference, and IME causes 'intermittent' shooting like you described.

good luck

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
be interested to hear your final analysis, it probably is the barrel contact....I like a fair bit more than a dollar bills width for clearance at any rate just FWIW...The other thing you might outa check before sending it bac,--which you probably have--you sound pretty experienced and thorough, but are the action screws torqued properly--a little off on that can make a big difference, and IME causes 'intermittent' shooting like you described.

good luck

Fish:

Yes, action screws torqued to the cheat sheet specs I keep with my torque wrench! I sure do hope that the slight contact in front of the recoil lug is the issue. Sure would make me smile!

I have found that for hunting rifles bedding the chamber area in a square and uniform manner on all sides will give consistant results. I also make sure that the recoil lug is bedded only at the back and is clear of the stock in the botton, sides and front - by taping electical tape to those parts before bedding. Contact on the front, sides and bottom can produce erratic groups unless it is a pillar type action like a Mauser 98 where the bottom is screwed flush with the floor plate pillar & so it does not move.

Nakihunter -- sure is true! And it certainly does appear to be the problem! Crossing my fingers cause I love this round!