My question is whether the full stocks, all the way out to the muzzel, are generally accurate - as accurate as rifles with the half stocks?

Of course those full stocks look good, and are neat. I've never owned one, so I just wondered what experience others have with them.

Thanks,
KB

I've had a 243 and 358Norma in a full stock both were VERY accurate. I float the barrel and the short barrel is stiffer.

My full-stocked experiences have been with short-barreled Mannlicher-Schoenauers (mainly 6.5x54s and .375 rimless N.E.s) and Ruger M77-RSIs (mainly .308s). All, particularly the Rugers, were very accurate indeed. At least as accurate as the same makes with the normal 1/2-stock forends.

Used the current Ruger RSI .308 living in my vault to pass my Oregon "Master Hunter" certification offhand shooting test. It isn't very hard...five shots offhand inside 5" at 100 yards is required, but I got mine into a little less than half that.

The certification is nice to have...qualifies the holders to participate in extra, off-season, control hunts for all kinds of game...elk, deer, cougar, etc. So I wouldn't risk not getting certified by using an inaccurate rifle.

no issues at all with my Remmie M7MS in .257 Bob. A true 3/4" rifle at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
My question is whether the full stocks, all the way out to the muzzel, are generally accurate - as accurate as rifles with the half stocks?
KB

They CAN be, but they can also be problematic. The trick is normally to ensure the barrel is floated as far as possible.

We had one guy on our range, who had great trouble getting a Sauer 200 (or 202?) "Stutzen" (German designation for full stock rifles) to shoot. After quite a bit of trial and error, he finally succeeded. This is a pretty typical example.

- mike

I've found full length neutral bedding to be the key.

Have owned several M/S in numerous calibres, have found all of the accurate to hunting standards , most under 1 1/2"" all under 3".

never had a problem with them. as a general rule however the barrels in FS are on the light side and heat up rather quickly, thus groups can be a bit wild if you don't let the barrel cool a bit between shots

I have 3 CZs that shoot 3 rd groups under an inch at 100 yds, 308,7x57 and 9.3x62. I have been most impressed with the accuracy of the fulll stocked CZ.

Own a 77 RSI in 308. I had problems with shifting POI. I had the action glass bedded and the barrel free floated to the tip. It shoots very well now.

I have a Mannlicher stock 7mm-08 from Remington's Custom Shop, I can get 1¼", sometimes a little better. My son with younger eyes gets ¾" all day long.

I heavily glass bedded my Interarms 19" all the way to the tip with a generous amount of bedding material.....warpage will be held to little or nothing this way.....it's also free floating.....what's not to shoot well this way?

My CZ 527FS .22 Hornet is very accurate.

I'm going to guess that I've owned at least 50 full stock rifles and carbines during the last 25 years. Mannlicher-Schoenauer, Brno, Mauser, Ruger, Remington, Sako, Zoli, CZ, Zastava, Heym, Customs and probably a few I've forgotten about. Calibers have been from .257R up thru .375H&H.

Barrel lengths were from 18.5 to 23.5 inches. some heavy, some ultralight. Stocks have been from beech to walnut, some laminate, bedded, freefloated or two piece.

I have come to the conclusion that accuracy has absolutely nothing to do with the style of stock. It is still up to the weight and quality of the barrel, just like a half stock rifle.

I've got a CZ 550 Full Stock in 9.3x62.
The only place the barrel touches the stock is at the very end.
It shoots a hell of a lot better than I do.

John

I think there's an underlying question here. Do barrels have to be free floating to shoot their best?
Based 6 of the 7 Rem 722's I have, the answer is no. All of the six 722 barrels are fully bedded out to the end of the stock, and the accuracy they deliver is outstanding.

That's partially why I asked this question. All the rifles I have now are free-floated after the first inch or two in front of the receiver, with generally the action area being glass bedded. That set-up has proven consistantly the best accuracy for me, so much so that I quit trying it differently years ago. So i wondered about the full stocks.

I shot a friend's FS CZ in 9.3x62 once at the range and it was accurate, but I didn't check to see whether it was free-floated, bedded or not.

KB

I'm confused. How can a rifle barrel be bedded all the way to the muzzle AND free floated. Am I behind times on terminology or what?

Do they "have to be free floating"?
Absolutely NOT
The reason you see it so much these days is because it is easier for the manufacturer to get accuracy that way.
Ask some old timers that were shooting when floating barrels were rare and they will tell ya.
Good bedding is more important. IMHO

John

Hey Kabluewy, I seem to remember John Wooters toting one around for a good many years. I think(may be wrong though) that it looked like the one in Vapo's flick. Mr. Wooters' may have been in 308Win. But, I do not remember him mentioning any accuracy problems.

However, I believe your Accuracy concern is reasonable, since it really depends on the Termite Food being used. Termite Food is either taking in moisture or releasing it - all the time. That is just the nature of the stuff. So, it just depends on the specific piece on the rifle.

By the way, Remington used to make a M7 with full length Laminate(ply-termite food) stock. Stopped by Hyatt Gun Shop in Charlotte one day to se what was new. The owner Larry said he had one of these chambered for a 260Rem in a box which he hadn't opened yet and he was wanting to look at it himself.

So he goes in the back and comes out with a box which had obviously been opened and layed it on the counter. As he lifted the lid, it sure was a Looker. Beautiful ply-termite food wrapped around (constantly rusting) Deep Blue. Even got me interested.

He eased it out of the box and handed it to me. Sure was nice - except for - the Gouge in the stock about half way up the barrel. It was real obvious whoever had originally opened the box had managed to KLUTZ it against the edge of the counter and put a HUGE Gouge in the nice stock.

I could see Larry's face begin turning Red as I pointed it out to him.

Not sure what he did with it, but the "other side" was a real Looker.

quote:

Hey Kabluewy, I seem to remember John Wooters toting one around for a good many years. I think(may be wrong though) that it looked like the one in Vapo's flick. Mr. Wooters' may have been in 308Win. But, I do not remember him mentioning any accuracy problems.

His favorite, If I recall correctly was his .25-222 CopperHead;

he liked full stock rifles and had several.

I imagine a full stocked rifle as carry gun, fit for a day in the field; if it puts the first round in the same place, and the second thereabouts, I believe it could be considered an accurate hunting rifle.

I don't see where a five shot group would bear in the discussion.

.02

I have a CZ550FS that was a 9.3x62 that i had rechambered to 9.3x64 that shoots everything i've tryed between 3/4 - 1 "

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I'm confused. How can a rifle barrel be bedded all the way to the muzzle AND free floated. Am I behind times on terminology or what?

Good question....here;s the answer:

I leave enough room around the barrel for at least .03 glass bedding material.....this insures a comlete covering of the barrel channel with epoxy.

I then put two layers of electrical tape around the barrel (.006 thick each) and full length glass bed the stock and barrel..and action at the same time.

A day later when the epoxy has cured, I take the barreled action from the stock (some times easier said than done) and remove the tape.

I use a gunline barrel shaving tool to "clean up" the barrel channel of the tape edge marks and WALLA....the barrel is free floating.... or darn near to it....some times I have to shave a bit of epoxy out as well.

I've only had one full stocked rifle, a 7x57, and it certainly shot within hunting needs. As I remember, 1.25-1.50". I bought it to do a comparison between the 7x57 and the 7-08 and so no real attempt was made to find the most accurate load. I was trying to see if there was a discernable difference between the two so I was looking principly at velocity.

That being said, my rifle held it's zero well. One thing, my rifle and every full stocked rifle I've ever seen had an end cap on the stock that fastened to the barrel. I'm sure that the stock could put some small pressure on the barrel as the weather changed, but I don't think because of the end cap and the very design of the forearm that it could affect the POI that much.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I heavily glass bedded my Interarms 19" all the way to the tip with a generous amount of bedding material.....warpage will be held to little or nothing this way.....

Actually bedding compound provides little to no resistance to stock warpage with a solid wood stock. It is and behaves as a plastic when under long term stress. I found this out the hard way years ago with MicroBed and it makes since - kinda like using cement without the rebar in it. Maybe if you mixed long strands of carbon fiber into the bedding compound...

The best way to minimize/prevent FS warpage is to use laminated wood since fully stable solid wood is about impossible to find. My Ruger 10-22 with laminated FS has been soaked in southcentral Alaskan rain on many grouse hunts and still shoots well with no POI changes. A much older solid wood full-stocked 10-22 did not do nearly as well, changing POI all the time as the stock got wet and dried out.

IME it is warpage with a FS rifle which causes the accuracy problem, not the bedding. Just don't expect to shoot ten-shot groups without a few flyers due to barrel heating.


.

My 9.3X62 CZ 550FS easily shoots under an inch with loads it likes. The barrel channel has remained clear and free floating for the 2 1/2 years I have owned the rifle.

quote:

Actually bedding compound provides little to no resistance to stock warpage with a solid wood stock

The reduced warpage is from totally sealing the inside of the barrel channel and this prevents moisture entering and leaving the stock at this point. The actual amount of glass helps as well but the biggest gain is the sealed wood.

Essentially, I agree with you here...