and left you all his money. You just bought the defunct Winchester company and you want to bring out new ammo and guns to match.

What's going to be new from you?

Mine is the 6.5-06 and real fast.

I would not come out with anything new. Just make quality rifles in time proven calibers.

I would give the defunct Winchester company to you as a gag gift, go buy the Mauser company and build them like they used to. Then I would buy Norma and Superior Ammo and load only European and English cartridges from 9.3 up.

6.5-06
8mm-06
8x68
338-06
338-35 Newton
35 Newton
9.3x62
9.3x64
375x68
375 AR
416 AR
416 Rigby
458 AR
450 Mbogo (470 ripoff)
470 AR
470 Mbogo
500 AR
500 Mbogo

And I'd load them with Woodleighs and North Forks, as options.

Please note that there are NO belts!!!

Hold a barbeque and invite customers, and when they arrive offer them the opportunity to take five wacks for $5 with a 10lb sledge against any machinery used to make the model 1300 shotgun.

Most former 1300 owners will probably go through the line several times.

Use the funds raised to bring back the Model 12
shotgun



AllanD

First thing I would do is dump the model 70. The I would retool and make mausers in the proper action lengths. Kurz, intermediate, standard, magnum.

None of the mark X or zastava crap, true mauser design.

Any caliber could be ordered through the custom shop.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
First thing I would do is dump the model 70. The I would retool and make mausers in the proper action lengths. Kurz, intermediate, standard, magnum.

None of the mark X or zastava crap, true mauser design.

Any caliber could be ordered through the custom shop.

That is THE PERFECT PLAN!!!

I'd sell that damned factory to some gun-nut and go hunting.

Gidday Vapodog,

I'm with you on the 6.5-06. It would blow the 25-06 into the weeds (just said that to wind up the 25-06 fans).

I would do it not on the model 70 but an exact copy of the Sako L61 Finbear rifle and I mean exact.

Second choice would be a 8mm-08 again on the Sako Forester rifle. Ammo would be loaded with the RWS 232gr round nose at about 2500 fps for the ultimate up closer and personal load for anything up to bear in the woods.

Those 8mm round noses are the ducks nuts for penetration with expansion.

God I love my fantasy world.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

And the 9,3x70 should also be included and the 375x64 which is the 9,3x64 opened to 375 for the convience and the .323 PH had be a factory cartridge with a rimmed sibling to in the custom H&H Singleshot which my H&H factory would make and my ammofactory Federal would support me with ammo.

And VIP Safariclub with PH Nigel Archer would help me get it tested thouroughly on a 9 week safari in Tanzania and MS would do the dishes . ( i let the dishes deceide how he wanted to be washed...)

Norma i would be the CEO of with no board , just a waste of money to have a board.

The Wichester factory would be making PRE 64 like they used to be made ,and also the classic Mauser 98s in a nice takedown version .

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
and left you all his money. You just bought the defunct Winchester company and you want to bring out new ammo and guns to match.

What's going to be new from you?

Mine is the 6.5-06 and real fast.

First off, I scrap all the Winchester short magnums....ALL of them! No shotguns, no lever actions...just bolt guns! Let the Italians have those markets. Well, maybe I'd import them with the Winchester name?

Then I'd remove about 1/4 " from the loading port side of the bridge and shorten the action
into three distinct lengths: short, intermediate and standard.

Next I'd redesign a different bolt stop and use
an exact copy of the 3 postion safety used on the Kimber model 89 BGR, mauser flange and all.

I'd dump that silly looking bolt handle for
much straighter pre-war type and contract Ted
Blackburn for the bottom metal.

First up would be the short action in 260 Remington, 270 Redding, 7mm-08 Remington,
308 Winchester, 338 Federal and 358 Winchester.

Next up the intermediate action in 257 Roberts,
6.5X55, 7X57 and 8X57. Shortly thereafter would
come the 6.5X284 and 284 Winchester.

Last up is the standard action in 6.5-06, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 30-06, 338-06, 35 Whelen and 9.3X62.

No magnums, I think they are best built on
mauser actions!


Institute a quality control program unlike any
other, and FIRE all employees who do not demonstrate they are part of QC.

Keep the featherweight design and use a better
barrel contour for the classic line that would have a newly designed stock by a real stockmaker.

Create a custom shop that could give you any damn thing you want with the only mandatory part being one of the new actions.

Last, but not least. Since I have all Bill
Gates' money, I don't need any more. Prices
will be just slightly above the cost of manufacturing the rifles plus delivery.

( I don't care if I make money, but don't want to lose any either)

I want my legacy to read: He made the best
damn factory rifle ever!

The only part left unsettled in my mind is how to distance and differentiate the new model 70
from the old pieces of junque? Perhaps a new name, etc.? How about a model 007? Made by
the DSR company?

Yeah. That sounds good, a model 007 made by the DSR company! Mark the action like the old
HVA...It would read...DSR action - made in USA.

Don hit the nail on the head.
Except I would offer a magnum action for custom shop only Safari rounds. I would start with the 375 H&H and go up to the 470 m'bogo and offer everything in between.

These rifles would be made to order.

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
Don hit the nail on the head.
Except I would offer a magnum action for custom shop only Safari rounds. I would start with the 375 H&H and go up to the 470 m'bogo and offer everything in between.

These rifles would be made to order.

That could be done, SD, but probably on a proprietary mauser action! Perhaps the VECTOR?

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:

Second choice would be a 8mm-08 again on the Sako Forester rifle. Ammo would be loaded with the RWS 232gr round nose at about 2500 fps for the ultimate up closer and personal load for anything up to bear in the woods.Hamish

Hamish I'm just a little surprised.With the 8mmx57 already in existance, and superior, what is your rational for the creation or recreation of a 8mm/08?? Totally boggles my mind.It does it more so knowing you want to use longer bullets with that short necked also ran. What am I missing here? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:

Second choice would be a 8mm-08 again on the Sako Forester rifle. Ammo would be loaded with the RWS 232gr round nose at about 2500 fps for the ultimate up closer and personal load for anything up to bear in the woods.Hamish

Hamish I'm just a little surprised.With the 8mmx57 already in existance, and superior, what is your rational for the creation or recreation of a 8mm/08?? Totally boggles my mind.It does it more so knowing you want to use longer bullets with that short necked also ran. What am I missing here? roger

The 8x57, the better cartridge, works best in a long action. While the 8-08 would work well in a short or intermediate action. To some, a short action is more desirble, especially if a lite weight rifle is the goal. I'm ok with an intemediate.

The .308 has plenty of neck, the 8-08 would have even more.

With his money re-tooling would be my first priority. I'd have the best tooling and hold interviews. Not sure how many prior employees could qualify.

From there I guess some of my ideas would be close to Dons.

I'd build over and unders in two grades. I'd probably not mess with any of the others.

I'd get back to the CRF Mod 70 only, and do some runs of limited cartridges. No rocket science, but the top selling ammo records to use as a list to decide where to start. The CRPF and PF wouldn't make it.

None of the Wssm's would make the cut. I'd probably drop the 325 WSM, but keep the .270 & .300, and possibly add a 6.5 WSM or .257 WSM in limited production.

Of the short actions, The .308 family would be safe. Though the .338 Federal wouldn't make the grade, I'd run a limited number of .358W in FW.

Standard '06 family would start with a limited run of the 6.5-06, .280R, 270 & '06 are staples of course, and I'd run the .338-06 and the .35 Whelan.

Standard Mag cartidges (7mm,300,338) would be standard production, while a limited run of .264,375,416, and 458 would come out one per year.

Here are some that I'd run, maybe one small bore and one bigger bore per year.
1. .22 Hornet
2. .17 Rem
3. .250 Sav
4. .257 Roberts
5. 6.5-284
6. 6.5-06
7. 7x57
8. 6.5x55
9. 9.3x? not sure whats most common 62?

By sticking with proven sellers, contracting for the synthetic stocks, and probably bottom metal, with a much higher QC, the prices would have to be brought up,.... but I'd wait to raise prices up to full level until I'd had a chance to prove Winchester was back. Claiming a loss would be good for taxes anyway.

I'd have my custom shop function like a real custom shop. Some adjustments would have to be made to demand changes, but I think Kimber has proven that there is still a demand for this type of rifle even with a higher price. Nate

quote:

Last, but not least. Since I have all Bill
Gates' money, I don't need any more. Prices
will be just slightly above the cost of manufacturing the rifles plus delivery.

( I don't care if I make money, but don't want to lose any either)

Easier said than done.....it wasn't the case for Herstal because if it was, they'd still be making them!!!!!

Since we're spending Bill's money....there'd be an action for
1. the 223 family
2. The 308 family
3. the 30-06 family
4. the 404 J family

and one more that has no bolt face....machine it the way you want it!! Bolt diameter to be fully usable for 505 Gibbs and long enough for the RUM cartridges

All to be sold "action only", barreled actions, and rifles with out barrels!!!

Standard chamberings to be limited severely They will be

.204 R
.223 Rem

.22-250
.243 Win
.260 Rem

.25-06
6.5-06
.270 Win
.30-06
.338-06
9.3 X 62

and on the jeff case
375 cal
416 cal
458 cal

Annually limited runs for special orders for things like 280 Rem, 300 win mag etc assuming there are sufficient orders......

The action to be upgraded with better bottom metal and I'll go along with a better bolt handle and improved safety lever.

There would be no lever actions (sorry BoomStick) and the only shotguns would be redesigned M-12 and Muruku made O/Us

For rimfire we will bring back the M-62, M-52 b with a better bolt handle.

No handguns

However the focus will be on the M-70....shall we rename it the M-70-06?

I'd not buy Winchester, I'd start my own company with a better action, modern facilities and better tax rates. Actions small, short, intermediate and long.

Chambered in the following: .22 hornet, .204 Ruger, .221 fireball, .223, .22-250, .243, 6mm Rem, .257 Roberts+P, .25-06, 6.5x55,.260, .270 Win, .270 WSM, 7x57, 7mm RM, .308, .30-06, .300 WSM, .300Win, 8x57, .325 WSM, 8x68S, .338 WM, .330 Dakota, .35 Whelen, .358 Win, .358 Norma, .376 Steyer, .375 H&H, .416 RM, .458 Lott

That covers all the bases without undue duplication of ballistic profiles except where wildly popular. I would add +P nomenclatures to 7 and 8x57, allowing them to be loaded to modern pressure levels of 60K.

I'd buy every registered member of accurate reloading forums a rifle of his or her choice and a
all expensive paid safari to test out their new rifle.

I can't imagine and more worthy cause.

quote:

I would give the defunct Winchester company to you as a gag gift, go buy the Mauser company and build them like they used to. Then I would buy Norma and Superior Ammo and load only European and English cartridges from 9.3 up.

DITTO! DITTO! DITTO!

6.5/284 and a bunch of Model 88's in .358 Winchester.

First off Bill Gates is going to cure AID's maybe in his wet dream. But that is what he is going to do with his money and Warren Buffets money as well. Now back to this business of building rifles. The Model 70 while great was a looser money wise to make, guys the market place killed the M-70 and the Mauser 98 and all the neet stuff we on this board really like or say that we really like but really we don't buy. USRA tried and they kept going longer than they should have maybe, its hard to build a rifle that will please everybody and make a profit and sell it at Walmart. I have nothing against Walmart, good business plan, but lest face it, its a deminishing market place, just like light airplanes, rifles last with some care. I have an old Remington 700 that I bought in 1972 in 7mm Remington Mag. I have had it for 34 years now, I paid 168 dollars out the door for it. Now I have other guns, but guess what, that one would have been fine if it was the only one. We are not the normal gun buying public, the majority of the guys that hunt buy what they buy and some sell it right after hunting season, and do that every year and then there are a lot of others that just buy a rifle and that it. The problem is that we all want fine handmade things like rifles at Walmart prices. Thats the fact of the matter.

quote:

Originally posted by George Semel:
First off Bill Gates is going to cure AID's maybe in his wet dream. But that is what he is going to do with his money and Warren Buffets money as well. Now back to this business of building rifles. The Model 70 while great was a looser money wise to make, guys the market place killed the M-70 and the Mauser 98 and all the neet stuff we on this board really like or say that we really like but really we don't buy. USRA tried and they kept going longer than they should have maybe, its hard to build a rifle that will please everybody and make a profit and sell it at Walmart. I have nothing against Walmart, good business plan, but lest face it, its a deminishing market place, just like light airplanes, rifles last with some care. I have an old Remington 700 that I bought in 1972 in 7mm Remington Mag. I have had it for 34 years now, I paid 168 dollars out the door for it. Now I have other guns, but guess what, that one would have been fine if it was the only one. We are not the normal gun buying public, the majority of the guys that hunt buy what they buy and some sell it right after hunting season, and do that every year and then there are a lot of others that just buy a rifle and that it. The problem is that we all want fine handmade things like rifles at Walmart prices. Thats the fact of the matter.

The DSR made in the USA would not be sold at
Walmart. We are talking semi-custom here at the
very least. And yes, they would sell! Kimber
proves this every day!

Walmart buyers would still have the Savage
and the imported Remingtons.

I was talking real rifles at real rifle prices!

quote:

I was talking real rifles at rel rifle prices!

Now that's telling it the way it is.....and one don't plan on seeling 150,000 a year as Olin demands!!!!!

Can't believe no one has said a 6mm BR.

How about a 6/284?

Or a 270/300 Ultra Mag

First you would need to buy Olin and get the Winchester name and designs. Then build from scratch a new modern plant in a differnt state like Tennesee or Arkansas with lower wages. I would try to put cut rifled barrels on the centerfire rifles if I could at all. I would make the m 70 and the 69 bolt .22. I would drop all the lever rifles. I would try to make great metel and use basic wood. My price would be about in the 1200 buck range. I would put cheap stocks on them. I'm tired of paying a thousand buck for a pretty stock but a crappy action/barrel. Oh and did you guys know that Kimber stocks are made in Costa Rica? Galazan has proved you can make the guns in high quality and make a profit with his double shotguns. Rifles should be easier to make for profit than a hand fitted double shotgun. FNMauser

Just take a charles daly or mark X and tie a bowling ball to it and it would be just like an original mauser.

There would be model 70 classics in 9.3x62 , 358 norma. And ultimate shadows in 7mm-08 and 308 win.

I would still make the WSM's but they would not be the only available cals in a given model rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
Just take a charles daly or mark X and tie a bowling ball to it and it would be just like an original mauser.

Don't much care for mausers there, RMiller?

What a hoot. Everyone has a plan. And the plan entails introducing multiple calibres that are unknown to 99.9997% of the shooters in America.
Someone said introduce a rifle in the $1200 range. Great idea but it won't fly. I've read too many post where folks were complaining about Rem QC and their solution was to buy a Savage. Go figure. Also, the market that would buy a $1200 rifle (especially with Savages available) would be very narrow and would soon dry up after everyone had bought their one rifle.
First step would be to relocate in a rifle friendly state. A right to work state. Start out with the .223, the 7-08, and the 30-06. If they throve, add either the .300 or the 7Rem mag, whichever was highest in die sales. Don't try to be all things to all people. Make a good solid rifle and if someone wants controlled feed, or any of the other nostalgic stuff, have a custom shop. Take a note from Remingtons book and have a single, annual run of a "subscription" calibre that had to be supported by pre-commitments of the buyers. Then you'd find out just how many fans of the 9.7637 Ethopian Loudboomin there really are.

quote:

Originally posted by iwzbeeman:
Then you'd find out just how many fans of the 9.7637 Ethopian Loudboomin there really are.

Yup.....talk is indeed cheap.....it's just like all the guys that want a short bolt in .358.

It's fairly clear that the folks that post on AR are not the traditional American customer....nor international either.

We represent a very small portion to the firearms congregetion and don't really represent the traditional buyer at all.

If one was to listen to the posts here, he'd assume there was a helluvalotta desire for the 505 Gibbs out there!!!!....only a very very few!!!!

If BG died and left me his money I would not buy the plant,I would buy a ranch bordering Yellowstone, and let nothing but kids and disabled hunt it.

I think I would buy zimbabwe and make my rifles there. after I clean up the mess and return the land to farmers that grow crops in my new private game farm /rifle /munitions/safari paridice . also think I would change the name to something cool like rhodesia

I would have a tennis show buy back program.. for every pair of baggy pants or tennis shoes you turn in you can have one rifle/pistol of your choice..

I think the biggest thing everyone has forgotten here is that the 30 million or so that would be required to do a Winchester change
is "chump change" to Bill Gates!

Hell didn't Steve Forbes spend over 20 million dollars of his own money running for President
without a snowballs' chance in hell of winning?

Sorry guys, but I think we working men are just
too unaccustomed to thinking of monies at that
level!

I bet a 30 - 40 million dollar tax write off
would probably increase his wealth!

Therefore, my friends, the DSR would fly! And
if it didn't, I be even richer for the effort!!!

Gidday Roger,

Z1r had it right with the short action thing.

As I had all Bills money I wouldn't give a great rats bum if the calibre was a flop sales wise it would make a great short bolt rifle with a 20" barrel that can throw big chunks of soft lead at moderate velocities. The effiency of the cartridge is not that important.

I have a heap of those bullets so I want something to use them in.

I have just had an epithany!!

Why don't I a sportserized Lee Enfield No 4 with a shot out barrel or even a No5 (Jungle Carbine) and screw on a 20" 8mm-303 barrel.

That would do the trick if I kept the loads mild. It would be a noisy bugger and kick like a mule but a handy bush rifle thats for sure.

I still wouldn't have to go to a full sized action. Otherwise a 8x57 it is.

Roger you are brilliant.

Thanks mate.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

iwzbeeman is the closest to my thoughts on this matter. I would not strive to be all things to all people. I don't think it can be done in todays world.

Number one is to relocate the plant, probably to South Dakota, and quality control would be number one in importance.

Next would be to refine the model 70 a bit. There is nothing radicaly wrong with the basic design of the model 70, many of its features have been copied almost as much as the Mauser. It mainly just needs better overall quality, and minor tweaking, mostly in the gas handling area. I would far rather have a flange on the bolt sleeve than a block on the extractor ring for starters.

The model 70 would come in both chrome moly and stainless steel. There would be a heavy barreled varminter model, a featherweight model, and a sporter-weight model. The featherweight and sporter models would come with either walnut or synthetic stocks. The only calibers that would be considered standard would be 223, 22-250, 243, 270, 7mm-08, 7mm Rem Mag, 308, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H, and 416 Rem Mag. Other calibers could be had on special order but would cost more. Wildcat calibers would be available but would cost more yet. If any caliber that was not standard had at least eight per cent of total sales in a years time it would become a standard caliber and enjoy a better price. The custom shop would make you almost any thing but the price would reflect it also. For instance if you want a model 70 in 338-06 it will cost you just like it will if you want one in a Ruger or Remington. There is no free lunch.

I would also make actions and barreled actions available for general sales much like the Montana Rifle Company does. This would allow people a lot of options they presently don't always have.

I would also have a model 94 but would have it redesigned to get rid of the hammer block. It would also benefit from the quality control that the model 70 would. Calibers would be 30-30 and 444. No others would be offered at least for a few years to see how things went. After a few years I might try a lever action on the 71/86 size in a few calibers if interest was high enough.

Lastly I would get creative in one area. I would contact Remington and try to buy the rights to produce the original Remington 31 shotgun under the name of Winchester with the model being the "Super 121". It was invented by john Browning and for my money is better than the model 12. Money should be able to acomplish this even though it probably wouldn't be a paying proposition even though it was the best.

A side by side and over and under shotgun would have to wait until all other things were up and running. About all that I might further add would be a target model 22 LR.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
and left you all his money. You just bought the defunct Winchester company and you want to bring out new ammo and guns to match.

What's going to be new from you?

Mine is the 6.5-06 and real fast.

And the .338/'06 to go with it!