Well I lied - but only a little... what another discussion here brought me back to was he issue of consistent performance as possibly the most critical factor in bullet selection in most circumstances. Obviously consistently shitty is not a good selection.

I mostly prefer a predictable and consistent performance over erratic and mostly great performance. This results in high confidence levels and massive disappointment when the bullet fails to deliver. This is the primary reason why Berger could and does effectively sell the VLD as a hunting bullet up against some of the other target / match type designs and some of the "supposed hunting" designs out there. A Sierra Matchking is unreliable as all hell with performance ranging from blow ups to pencilling through with no expansion. My experience with the Berger VLD was absolutely consistently blow ups after 4-6 inches of penetration (except on some springbok which provided too little resistance for the sharp 210gr VLD). I shot these bullets quite extensively (mostly in my 300 WM) and because I knew what I was dealing with and I used hem within a very limited window of known performance and didn't try to make them do what I knew they could not, I had very, very good results.

Following up a wounded animal I took the rifle of my girlfriend at the time which was loaded with 165gr Interbonds. She was surprised; surely the 300 Win Mag was more gun than her .308 Win? I needed to explain that I expected I would come over a dune and have the animal break out of brush away from me running and at a poor angle. I knew the Berger could not make that shot happen. Right there I decided that I needed to make a change to a bullet that could handle a wider range of situations that I would encounter as a hunter. I had already only limited the VLDs to hunting open areas and had let many trophies walk away from me without shooting due to poor angles and the inability of the Berger to penetrate. In bushveld hunts I had used other designs and I realised that I had really been fooling myself into thinking that the VLD was "good". However, it was reliable, reliably explosive!

I spent some time with various bonded designs, the Interbond, Accubond, Scirocco and Rhino (as I recall and subsequently a few others). I eventually settled on North Fork and became the importer for the fairly small South African market for these premium projectiles with a matching price. I never looked back for my own use. My decision was again all about consistent performance and knowing exactly what I would get - and what I wouldn't. I can hunt with confidence with almost any bullet that gives me that certainty.

Whilst the North Forks and some of the other designs mentioned will provide me with more opportunities due to better penetration, I can hunt with a bullet with less structural integrity, provided I know exactly what I am in for. What I am unwilling to use is a bullet that sometimes expands, sometimes doesn't, sometimes blows up and sometimes stays together etc.

I can buy the version that not all bullets are perfect 100% of the time, but some come pretty darn close. Some are an absolute toss up and some are always crappy and I would almost prefer the latter of the toss up! Almost....

So, I say it again, consistent performance will often make you a better hunter than "mostly better" performance, where one day you will ask of your bullet what it will not deliver! Know your equipment, know your limits (shooting, rifle, bullets) and be a successful hunter. Happy hunting.

What bullet do you hunt with?

For DG and big game North Fork. SS, CPS and FPS. I admit I have a bias. North Fork where possible. If I need BC then Sciroccos provided the rifle shoots them. If not Interbond /Accubond. I do use some Oryx and TBBC where I can't get first choices. Mostly BC is overrated as a factor.

I've used a fair spread with varied success.

quote:

A Sierra Matchking is unreliable as all hell with performance ranging from blow ups to pencilling through with no expansion.

I have looked at my Sierra reloading manual and they absolutely state, do not use the match kings for hunting. I have shot tens of thousands of SMK's in rifle competitions, they are wonderfully accurate bullets, even in sporting rifles









but you know, if the manufacturer does not recommend them as game bullets, people ought to listen.

I am not an expert in this, but it seems to me that what you want in a hunting bullet is the largest through hole. Maybe people ought to be using a larger caliber bullet to start with instead of expecting a smaller bullet to upset and make that bigger hole.

+2 on the SMK not being a hunting bullet but being one of the better match bullets. Maybe that's why they call it a "matchking". They also produce a "gameking" which does well on game.

The SMKs are the only bullets allowed in international Palma target rifle competitions; they're not designed for hunting:

https://www.sierrabullets.com/...HPBT-PALMA-MatchKing

Well, I loaded some Sierra MK 180 grain bullets in my 30/404.

Velocity was about 3480 fps.

It was for an experiment, as I knew they will break up, as you all know they were not designed for hunting.

I shot many animals with them.

Every single one died with one shot.

From a nyala at less than 10 yards, to a blue wildebeest at over 400.

All bullets fell apart.

One zebra I shot at about 80 yards, hitting him right on the shoulder.

He dropped stone dead.

The bullet made an enormous crater on the shoulder almost a foot across!

But the bullet never penetrated the chest cavity!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wasbeeman:
+2 on the SMK not being a hunting bullet but being one of the better match bullets. Maybe that's why they call it a "matchking". They also produce a "gameking" which does well on game. [/QUOTE0

As far as the gameking goes, I have killed 138 whitetail with the same rifle in .308 winchester using the 165 grain gameking. I only had to fire a second shot on a doe who stood up 10 feet from me and I tried to drive it from left hip to right shoulder. So, I had a 150 yard second shot when she got to the fenceline and was too sick to jump the fence. It would be pretty hard to convince me that this bullet isn't perfect for 100 to 200 pound animals when shot correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, I loaded some Sierra MK 180 grain bullets in my 30/404.

Velocity was about 3480 fps.

It was for an experiment, as I knew they will break up, as you all know they were not designed for hunting.

I shot many animals with them.

Every single one died with one shot.

From a nyala at less than 10 yards, to a blue wildebeest at over 400.

All bullets fell apart.

One zebra I shot at about 80 yards, hitting him right on the shoulder.

He dropped stone dead.

The bullet made an enormous crater on the shoulder almost a foot across!

But the bullet never penetrated the chest cavity!

The 400+ yard shot with a SMK is irresponsible Saeed and you should be ashamed. I wouldn't be posting such dominion.

We granted permission to a friend who is a ME state police officer. First year he shot and wounded a whitetail, no recovery. Same thing happened the next year. No blood trail, etc. The third year, same story.

By chance I wasn't working so wife and I helped comb the area, now becoming snow-covered. Spent probably 2+ hrs combing likely routes of travel.
The following spring I found the remains. Deer had covered just over 100 yds, but the cover out back is seriously thick, blowdowns create little "holes" into which it had disappeared. I'd missed finding the deer by less than 5 feet.

At that point felt compelled to ask what he was using. Fed GM 168 gr SMKs. Duh. Should have guessed he'd use something like that. Gently steered him toward a decent factory soft-point of same weight and next two deer shot were cleanly taken. Anecdotal, yeah. I like that loading in my RPR for paper-punching. And, of course, those SMKs were not impacting at anything like 3480 fps - probably less than 2480 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, I loaded some Sierra MK 180 grain bullets in my 30/404.

Velocity was about 3480 fps.

It was for an experiment, as I knew they will break up, as you all know they were not designed for hunting.

I shot many animals with them.

Every single one died with one shot.

From a nyala at less than 10 yards, to a blue wildebeest at over 400.

All bullets fell apart.

One zebra I shot at about 80 yards, hitting him right on the shoulder.

He dropped stone dead.

The bullet made an enormous crater on the shoulder almost a foot across!

But the bullet never penetrated the chest cavity!

The 400+ yard shot with a SMK is irresponsible Saeed and you should be ashamed. I wouldn't be posting such dominion.

Why should I be ashamed?

I have shot animals further than that.

If you are incapable of taking a shot, at any distance, don’t take it.

There some hunters who can, and do it all the time.

quote:

Why should I be ashamed?I have shot animals further than that.If you are incapable of taking a shot, at any distance, don’t take it.There some hunters who can, and do it all the time.

Exactly and who put ar corey in charge of anything, WTH. Don't look down your nose corey at others just because they practice a skill and can execute it and you may not be able to.

Perhaps Corey is just saying he doesn't condone shooting a big game animal with an SMK, no matter the range.
I don't either for that matter, though I love the SMK's on coyotes from my .223.
An FMJ will kill and animal dead as anything but we as hunters don't approve of their use for most applications do we? I see using a match bullet being much the same.

The surprising thing is all animals we shot with the MK died with one shot!

If we had any failures, we would have stopped using them.

They are definitely not my choice for hunting.

We did it as an experiment, and it defeated what we had expected to happen.

I wonder if hunters will ever comprehend that each of us have a different concept of the type performance we want from a hunting bullet?

This was not intended to be a "target bullet for hunting" thread but the comments are welcome. I was pointing out that match bullets like Berger's VLD can be used due to consistent performance. SMKs are unpredictable. Saeed blow ups probably occurred so often due to very high impact velocities but they often pencil through as per the other anecdotal story of Samuel.

I've hunted with Amax where appropriate but not much. That must be one of the fastest expanding bullets ever. Worked great on light bodied animals at long range that I needed DRT. Used the 178 at 3000+ fps.

The thing I am trying to drive home is taking shots where you know the projectile will do what is required. And that is only possible when the projectile behaves the same each time. I have had horrible inconsistent performance with cup and core hunting bullets even at low impact velocities. At high impact velocities some bonded designs often overexpand and are little better.

I am happy to delve into what is perfect but that was not intended... but here goes...

Frontal area for wound channel

Ready expansion i.e. not too hard and preferrably wide velocity operating range

Not over expansion or rivetting or excessive bending

Not losing too much weight - weight retention

Weight forward design on expansion to help avert tumbling and "dart" stabilise

Accuracy

Price... and therein lies the rub.

That would be ideal.

There is single projectile that will perform exactly the same way day in day out.

The closest thing to that is the mono metal hollow points.

They expand, and they penetrate.

They perform these most of the times.

I have seen bullets that changed direction 90 degrees after hitting an animal.

I have seen hits that defy any explanations!

I have seen a 500 grain Hornady Solid out of a 460 Weatherby Magnum hit an elephant in the trunk, facing, and the bullet never made it to the chest of the elephant.

It changed direction and came out of the side of the trunk!

A brain shot with a 375/404 dropped him.

I have shot a kudu bull at about 200 yards. A zebra was 35 yards further, and to the right, completely clear of the kudu.

Both died with one shot.

Bullet was a Barnes X 300 grain out of the 375/404.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I have seen bullets that changed direction 90 degrees after hitting an animal.

Reminds me of this informative video (yes, it's produced by Blaser!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnunFu12TA0

Old campfire conversation, worn out a million times, too many varibles but that in itself makes for some hot conversation..

To start with depends on what your hunting, any target HP works Ok on small deer, not so good on elk for instance..

I think todays bullets even the cup and cores work well on most game up to elk size, and I believe the soldered cores come into play on elk along with a few cup and core bullets such as the WW power point, and the Rem corelokt..

When it comes to DG in Africa the super premiums come into play and even then thre is some lap over..

The bullets of today are outstanding and nothing like the old days when most bullets other than the Rem Corelokts failed from time t to time on certain animals..