Over 65 years of active rifle shooting, rifle and pistol competition, hunting, guiding, gunsmithing, etc., I think I have learned the most important single factor in attaining absolutely TOP levels of accuracy.

It is not the barrel, not the bullet, not the specific load employed. It is not the make of rifle, or make or power of the scope (if a scope is used at all). It is not the best gunsmithing money can buy.


It is truly learning how to shoot from the position or positions one will be using to shoot each of his specific, individual guns.

For instance, it is important to learn how to pull the trigger in such a way that the scope crosshairs do not move at all on the target as the hammer, striker, or other firing mechanism does its thing. It may take a lot of experimenting to find out how to do that when in the position(s) in which the rifle is normally used. It will then take an awfully lot of shooting using that method that works, in order to make it part of one's muscle memory and to do it automatically every shot, using just one's subconscious mind.

Another example is learning to read the wind and correctly "know" where to hold and whether to even adjust one's sights at all for the shot. An experienced GOOD high-power across the course shooter or any GOOD benchrest shooter can look at the wind indicators (grass, tree leaves/limbs, wind flags, power lines, etc.) and immediately KNOW where he has to hold on the target or how much to adjust his sight to put the bullet exactly where he wants it. So can hunters.

All that it takes is years of active, frequent shooting and careful observation and thinking along the way.

Anyway, though it is important to have good, properly assembled rifles and properly mounted sights, they are not the most important aspects. There are no "magic" equipment components, nor are there any perfect equipment "using techniques", whether of rifle assembly or rifle shooting, which will work for every gun, or every shooter, or every firing position.

Almost all competitors, and hunters too, know that a really GOOD shot can place his bullets better with any gun appropriate to the kind of shooting he is doing, than can a less capable shooter with physically better equipment and ammunition.


There is an old saying in self defense that "you can't miss fast enough to save your life" in a gun fight. A well aimed bullet from a single shot firearm protects better than instantly available and rapidly fired 16 rounds of spray and pray.

The same is true in rifle accuracy...one can't buy enough equipment or services to make the rifle deliver TOP accuracy in his hands if he is not willing to put in the time and work to learn to really shoot accurately.

Only truly learning how to shoot, and doing it over and over and over again thousands of times will deliver top accuracy for YOU.

In other words thought, and rounds down range are what counts most in the quest for accurate shooting.

quote:

The most important factor in rifle accuracy

Without a doubt the shooter is the most important part of accuracy. Most of my guns can out shoot me on most days. Del

No doubt that you are 100% correct, but the most important component short of that is the barrel..No matter how well one can shoot, if the barrel is bad, no amount of shooting skill will fix it.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
No doubt that you are 100% correct, but the most important component short of that is the barrel..No matter how well one can shoot, if the barrel is bad, no amount of shooting skill will fix it.

Well, yes and no...depends on the kind of shooting you do.

I used to own a Model 94 Winchester carbine chambered in .25-35 which had one of the worst barrels I've ever seen on a gun. The muzzle end had been shortened to make a carbine out of a rifle, and the cut off was nowhere near 90° to the bore and wasn't crowned. The bore was not in any better than NRA "fair" shape, if that good. Worst of all, the barrel was very loose in the receiver. You could move it from side to side when you picked it up to fire it...with enough movement to miss a bear at 50 yards.

Still, because the factory iron sights were both on the barrel, I used to be able to sit down on the ground, take a good position, and shoot chipmunks with it at 35-40 yards with very deadly accuracy. Hitting them was so easy with that mild-recoiling rifle that I quit shooting them because it wasn't at all sporting.

About 20 years later, I acquired a German military M'98 sporter in 9x57 mauser...or rather, assembled one from a receiver I got at a dealer's in Edmonton, Alberta, and a barrel and a take-off original stock that I bought at two different gun shows over the next few months. That barrel was so abused that .358" bullets would drop 1/3 of the way down the bore before the rifling would grab & stop the bullets. With a load of 40 grains of 3031 and 250 grain Speer's it would very reliably shoot groups from a bench of 1" or smaller.

So, though a good barrel would have been nice and very likely would have shot much better yet, it didn't prove necessary for accuracy plenty good enough for either rifle's intended use. In fact, I wouldn't have been afraid to shoot either of them for money against a lot of todays' shooters with their new high-dollar rifles.

While the shooter is the cause of more inaccuracy than any single remaining factor in shooting a firearm we must remember that shooting is a complex combination of a precision tool with many variables that together with a properly trained and practiced individual results in accuracy. Even small things can affect that accuracy to one degree or another. Choosing a bullet that is blatantly wrong for the gun may keep it from being accurate. A barrel that is incompatible with the powder charge/bullet combination can cause differing levels of inaccuracy. The fact remains the the human variable will affect the accuracy of any gun more often than any other problem with the gun and/or ammo.
A poor shooter is unlikely to shoot well with either a target rifle or an old worn out micro-groove Marlin while a good shooter will shoot more accurately with both.

The most important factor in rifle accuracy is a barrel.The most important factor in shooting a rifle accurately is the shooters skill and knowledge(or their ability-their ability to hold the rifle with the less movement).

AC,
Good point. You can't buy accuracy if you are not willing to invest in practice.

barrel...period

The trigger plays a BIG role.

Quality of equipment(barrel, trigger, optics) and how they are put together is important to precision accuracy, but the nut behind the bolt is the most important factor in consistently shooting accurately in all conditions at normal ranges. Some start young and become proficient through practice(they learn). Others practice, but never learn-----even w/ the best(or very good) equipment. Others buy a gun, let someone else 'sight it in' and then wonder why they can't just point and pull the trigger and have the bullet hit the target . The nut behind the bolt is THE key factor.

I've shot across the course rifle matches for several years now and I agree, when it comes to putting shots on target consistently, the shooter is the biggest factor. This is especially true in actual field conditions.

Well, I think the shooter is key, and that a skilled rifleman can make up for suboptimal equipment. My baseline is snipers.

Historically, snipers did amazing things, and it wasn't because of their equipment. Or, more precisely, their rifles weren't, for the most part, substantially better than those of their contemporaries, and those rifles were far less good than even an off-the-shelf cheap modern rifle.

As I look at it, from the revolutionary war on, it has been the shooter, not his equipment, which has made the sniper-marksman who he was and is.

So I agree completely with Alberta Canuck.

As always, I'm wide open to alternative opinions.

I agree completely with AC.

I am about 20 years short of his experience level, but in my 40+ years of hunting/shooting, if I don't do my part, it really does not matter how great the barrel/trigger/stock/scope or load is, if I can't acquire a sight picture properly and fire the gun properly, the gun is not going to compensate for my inadequacies.

Not starting a contest here, but that is the biggest problem I see with many hunters. They simply do not spend enough time shooting, Period, and try to make up for their lack of knowledge/skill with gadgets and technology.

Learning to live and operate within the parameters of ones personal ability limitations is hard for many folks to do or admit to that and instead of working to expand those parameters, they try to overcome them with constant equipment upgrades and continue to place blame for their personal limitations upon the equipment instead of simply admitting to their limitations, experience or ability wise.

I dont know anything about golf but I wonder if Tiger Woods score today is as good as it was 20 yrs ago?

For me the biggest improvement in accuracy , came from proper technique . From the bench , it was shooting targets , that force ones eyes to concentrate on aiming towards a specific point. And following through the recoil . I had a bad habit of coming off target at the shot. I later was able to transfer this to the field . Coyotes weren't all that excited about my new found mechanics. Proper mechanics save you . This didn't just happen . Hunting mentors made these revelations possible. Thanks to My Dad , Uncles , and hunting partners . Also the wealth of info on AR . . . shoot hungry.

Consistency is accuracy. Matters not what endeavor we partake in. Just try to do it correctly

I totally agree with AC. When I was in Gunsmith at TSJC in the early 50's there was a member of the rifle team who had a decided nervous tic that was uncontrollable and caused his head to jerk. He was one of the top shooters on the team but if you stood talking to him you would doubt he could hit anything. My first centerfire rifle was a 32-20 Win 73. It had been cut to 18" from a rifle. Last 6" of barrel actually was almost smooth. Had just been cut with a hacksaw and nothing done to the muzzle. Iron sights of course dovetailed in with a file and hacksaw as was the magazine hanger. I have killed a many a popbottle (we didn't have cans then) at 50 yds with it with very few misses. Still have it although almost all the good parts have been installed on later 73's. I have seen very few rifles shoot by themselves so any accuracy they have really depends on who shoots them. Even from a machine rest the rest is doing the shooting. Just my opinion of course.

You need a rifle if your making changes that is accurate enough so you can tell. Might as well pull a good trigger.

One man with one gun that he knows well is an accurate combination. Add good ammo and you have accuracy for sure.

There are men who are good shots, and there are men who are not.

A well made, accurate rifle is wasted on a man who is a bad shot.

A poor shooter with a great rifle will find it hard to beat a great shooter with an average rifle.

Never could get my son to understand that practice would make him better not spending $$ on equipment.

The biggest factor is the nut behind the bolt.

My brother makes pedestrian rifles shoot like a custom would be expected to. He's got that Brian Enos/Yoda 'be the target' kind of thing that I do not have. He kicks around the idea of a full on custom rifle but when he can do the same thing with stuff most people sell to finance a custom, he is money, time and headache ahead.

In order:

Shooter
Barrel
Trigger
Bedding
Ammunition
Action
Trueing

Give a great shooter a rifle that shoots a shotgun pattern and he'll shot a somewhat accurate shotgun pattern. It takes a good shooter and a good rifle to make a good shot. The shooter is not the magic factor here.

Although being a somewhat moderately inept fiddle player; it's still nice to know I can really grip down on a stock, at the bench, and watch my heart beat make the crosshairs dance!

I agree with AC. It's the shooter first, then the trigger. All the rest of the finery is just for successively smaller groups. Unless of course you're up north and shooting offhand groups at 100 yrds. Then all bets are off!

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
In order:

Shooter
Barrel
Trigger
Bedding
Ammunition
Action
Trueing

I agree with Chuck except for the last two items on his list....and I agree on the order in which he listed the factors.

The only reason I disagree on the last two, is that I don't think either are a factor which make any critical difference, even in benchrest competition shooting...or maybe I should be saying that the other factors so greatly outweigh the last two as to make them relatively unimportant.

Action, for example. About 20 years or so ago a well known BR competitor in the Pacific NW U.S. conjectured that the actual action type and make made no difference logically, so long as it was using a good barrel and was properly set up in all other respects.

To test his theory, he built a true BR rifle on an early Remington Rolling Block action, and used it in competition. It required a lot of bedding experimentation, and a number of little tweaks to the trigger, etc., but he won matches with it. It was all reported in Precision Shooting magazine, the official publication of the International Bench Shooters' Association.

Why didn't everyone run out an buy their own Remington Rolling Blocks? Most likely because there is not the great array of aftermarket products for the RB which make other available actions so relatively easy to obtain the same results with, at less cost and with less personal effort.

If you want to do a real test on your own of the shooter's dominant importance, try this:

Take one of your hunting rifles and shoot the very best groups you can with it, with the ammo it likes best. Then put the rifle away for 5-10 years, with a few boxes of its favorite ammo.

Spend the 5 or 10 years while the rifle is sitting there unshot, doing other shooting at regular, frequent intervals. Then come back at the end of the 5 or 10 years and try the hunting rifle for accuracy again. I'd be willing to bet you that your average groups with it will be at least 25% smaller...probably even tighter than that.

I know that is one hell of a test to suggest, but I have done it with a number of rifles, and I've seen the results that an additional 10,000 or so rounds downrange can make in the SHOOTER, and the shooter is the key variable in any/every rifle accuracy system.

BTW, the same test will give roughly the same results with your best current competition BR rifle although the improvement may be somewhat
smaller. But the marked improvement will still be significant.

quote:

Give a great shooter a rifle that shoots a shotgun pattern and he'll shot a somewhat accurate shotgun pattern. It takes a good shooter and a good rifle to make a good shot. The shooter is not the magic factor here.

iT's a more accurate comparison to do this in reverse, in my opinion; and more realistic too. Most rifles shoot well, it's the shooters who can't be as consistent as the rifle. Take a good shooter and a great shooter and give them both a rifle capable of 1/4 MOA. the magical factor between a 1MOA group from the good shooter and the 1/4moa group from the great shooter is ALL shooter. Tp put it another way, the shooter is much more effective and capable of maximizing the potential of the rifle than the rifle is of maximizing the potential and abilities of the shooter.

Just my experience and opinion

There is no doubt that the shooter is the key ingredient but the barrel, trigger and ammunition all are important as well.
When I was shooting small bore competitively in college and the Army at Ft Benning there was a common opinion that while Walther made the best barrels, Anschutz made the best triggers --- and Anschutz were the rifles to beat.
But even the best barrels and triggers are worthless without great ammunition.

"Anyway, though it is important to have good, properly assembled rifles and properly mounted sights, they are not the most important aspects. There are no "magic" equipment components, nor are there any perfect equipment "using techniques", whether of rifle assembly or rifle shooting, which will work for every gun, or every shooter, or every firing position."[/QUOTE]



Just to make the original post perfectly clear to those few who didn't pick up on it the first time they read it (if they DID read it), no one, me included, said that a good rifle is not important. The above quote points that out.

What was said was that the most important thing is the shooter. Without learning to shoot really well, one simply cannot buy anything which will make his rifle super-accurate in HIS hands.

Like it or not, shooting accurately is a learned skill which takes LOTS of observation, thinking, and practice to develop. Spending $ won't do the trick. WORK by the shooter is required.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Like it or not, shooting accurately is a learned skill which takes LOTS of observation, thinking, and practice to develop. Spending $ won't do the trick. WORK by the shooter is required.

Agree 100%

The folks who think triggers, barrels or ammo are the most important probably think guns commit crimes

I agree with AC.

The equation is a relaiv thng. The rifle, sights and ammo must be capable of shooting smaller than the shooter for him to recognize when he fails at his tasks, however.

I know from experience that a rifle that "won't shoot" for a guy simply needs to be shot by a know quality shooter in fron tof the owner. Making that rifle sing and dance with out any fanfare is often all that a shooter needs to recognize he si the wild card in the equation. Again, given a decent rifle/sight/ammo combination.

Give a $10k Tubb 2000 with Warner micrometer sights, Anschutz iris' front and rear and boutique 6mm XC ammo to a gorilla and you will get a fancy termite digging stick. Give a shot out SMLE and 50 year old ball to a national champ prone shooter, and you'll likely not want to be in his sights at 500m....

Accuracy is a skill learned through constant practice.

I have been shooting competitively for a number of decades now and the shooter is the limiting factor. You get used to the excellent shooting of seasoned competitors and then, once in a while, you get a new shooter on your target, and your target pulling day becomes a lesson in patience. Experienced shooters keep all of their rounds on the target, seldom does anything go out into the seven ring, even standing, but a new shooter will kick dirt over the berm, calls will come down if the pit puller can tell if the round is going over the target (!) and the rapid fire groups are yards in diameter. Everyone has to start from somewhere, we can only hope that the new shooters show up again and improve on their marksmanship.

I believe the impression that you can buy accuracy comes from gun magazines and gunwriters. Articles are thinly veiled advertisements, all pushing new hardware, new reloading equipment, all giving the impression that all you have to do is spend money on some new toy and accuracy is yours.

I guess there are people who believe that buying a set of shoes will get them into the National Basketball league, but even with new shoes, or new guns, it takes practice to hit the basket.

Once your shooting skills surpass the equipment's potential.

Then better equipment improves yours.

If your capable of shooting .5 inch groups but the rifle is a 2 inch rifle the shooter well not turn it into a .5 rifle.

Skill is important but so is equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Once your shooting skills surpass the equipment's potential.

Then better equipment improves yours.

If your capable of shooting .5 inch groups but the rifle is a 2 inch rifle the shooter well not turn it into a .5 rifle.

Skill is important but so is equipment.

True enough, but one has to remember that whatever accuracy the rifle is capable of is really an average of ALL the shots it has ever fired.

A 2 MOA rifle shoots some groups larger than that, and some smaller. And for some reason a really good shooter fires more groups smaller than that than he/she fires larger groups...

So, for them it may well prove to be a 1.5 MOA rifle. For those who don't learn to shoot well enough to get the best out of the rifle, it may be a 3.0 MOA piece.

The same is true of 0.2 MOA rifles. So regardless what the statistical capability of the rifle is, the shooter is still the dominant accuracy variable.

The most important factor in rifle accuracy has always been the loose nut behind the trigger.

I agree with you completely AC. I have always encouraged people who are trying to improve accuracy to follow many of your tips. There is a point where you have reached a level of proficiency that the rifle is the limiting factor but for many, that point is way down the line.

I hesitate to put my two cents in as I agree with almost all that has been said, but here goes. It has long been my contention that many shooters get so rapped up in rifle accuracy they forget the reason for it, to hit a target. When I am training someone to shoot for a trip to Africa. I ask them to sight the rifle in, not worrying about group size, within reason. Two inch @ 100 yards is ok. Since most of the trips I take are to Namibia where 400 yard shots are not uncommon we start by shooting gongs at distance. This gives them confidence that they and the gun can do it. Now we go to shooting balloons at various distances from 75 to 400 yards from shooting positions that they will encounter. One of the nice things about shooting balloons is that group size is never measured. After 4 or 5 sessions at the range they are quite confident and have always done well in the field. Learning how to shoot in less than perfect conditions is the most important to me as well as knowing your capabilities...........Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:
I hesitate to put my two cents in as I agree with almost all that has been said, but here goes. It has long been my contention that many shooters get so rapped up in rifle accuracy they forget the reason for it, to hit a target. When I am training someone to shoot for a trip to Africa. I ask them to sight the rifle in, not worrying about group size, within reason. Two inch @ 100 yards is ok. Since most of the trips I take are to Namibia where 400 yard shots are not uncommon we start by shooting gongs at distance. This gives them confidence that they and the gun can do it. Now we go to shooting balloons at various distances from 75 to 400 yards from shooting positions that they will encounter. One of the nice things about shooting balloons is that group size is never measured. After 4 or 5 sessions at the range they are quite confident and have always done well in the field. Learning how to shoot in less than perfect conditions is the most important to me as well as knowing your capabilities...........Tom

I certainly agree 100% with your view Tom. I share that view, which is one of the reasons I started this thread. Far too many shooters are influenced by the media, advertising, and each other into believing they can buy accuracy...whether shooting at paper targets or at game.

That's one reason I initially said here that they have to learn to shoot EACH of their rifles from EVERY position in which they might be using them.

It's also one of the reasons I concentrated on groups in my later posts on this thread. In benchrest shooting is where "shooter error" becomes most obvious, whether it is an inability to "catch" the recoiling rifle just the same every time, poor trigger management, inconsistent position of the rifle on the sandbags (and the shooter on the stool and bench) or one of a zillion other things good shooting accuracy requires.

ALL shooters, even after they have fired 10,000 rounds in completion or hunting could most easily permanently improve their performance by thinking about and experimenting more with how they shoot, then making shooting the way that 'works best' an ingrained habit. That understanding an effort is much more productive than throwing ANY amount of money at the rifle or gadgets..

The title says rifle accuracy, not rifle marksmanship. The most important factor in rifle accuracy or probably less ambiguous would be a rifle's accuracy is the barrel, period, again.

Back in the '70's, when I was in the firearms business, I had a customer in my retail store who was a dedicated pistol shooter and who was convinced that the only thing standing between him and shooting Master scores was a more accurate pistol. As a consequence, there was a steady stream of pistols coming to the store which this shooter had found and ordered from Shotgun News, each of which was to be the solution to his problem.

One day a M1911A1 Colt arrived for this shooter. On the slide was engraved "Harry Reeves, National Pistol Champion" and then gave the dates of Harry's championships. As it turned out, this pistol was no more the solution to the shooter's problems than any of the others.

I was shooting a good deal of smallbore prone at the time, and some time after this episode I found myself at a smallbore match in Ashville, NC. To my surprise, who should be refereeing the match but Harry Reeves.

During a pause in the action, I approached Harry and asked him about the pistol. He laughed and told me the following story.

It seems that Harry was not above wanting to cash in on his national reputation, so from time to time he would go to the local pawnshop or pawnshops and put together a three gun set to shoot .22 rimfire, centerfire, and .45, which were then the three pistols required to shoot in a match. He would then cobble together a pistol box and take it to a local match.

Of course, Harry would easily win the match, and then be besieged by the competition wanting to buy his pistols. Harry would then sell them at a "modest" markup and go on his way.

In a few days, he would inevitably be contacted by the unhappy buyer, who was disappointed that the pistols would not shoot the same scores for him as they did for Harry.

Harry would invite the buyer to meet him at his range, take the pistols and proceed to shoot the center out of the targets with them, and then hand them back to the confused buyer.

Harry said that he was convinced that one of his disgruntled buyers had had the pistol engraved with his name in order to command a higher price.

Similarly, I once went to a high power match with a friend, who was shooting a borrowed M1. The M1 turned out to be so inaccurate that my friend returned it and retrieved his DCM M1903A3 Springfield from the car prior to the final stage of the match, 500 yard slow fire prone. The rifle had a two groove barrel and had never been sighted in beyond 100 yards.

My friend took his place on the firing line and fired his first sighter shot. It was a miss, off the paper. The second sighter was the same. His first shot for record was a 5 (we were using the old 5-V target). He then proceeded to clean the target with a score of 100-13V, winning the match and defeating a contingent from Fort Benning at the same time. Shooting my heavy barrel Springfield with target sights, I came in second with 100-11V.

My friend was a very experienced smallbore position shooter, who went on to become a Distinguished Marksman (as did I), but again, it was the shooter, not the equipment, who won the match.