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I posted a similar thread to this on the bird shooting forum in regard to shotguns, but am interested in the same question on the rifle side. Past generations have given us guns that we regard as classics such as the pre-64 M70, the M94, the Mauser 98 in its various military and sporter configurations, etc. What rifles being produced today do you believe will stand the test of time and be regarded in the future as we view these legendary guns (and others that I didn't mention)? By legenday/classic I'm not talking about engraving and gold leaf, but guns that will become classics because of their quality in terms of design, manufacture, and function. I like the old guns as much as, maybe more than, most. What brings this question on is my thought that it would be nice to pass on a gun(s) that a son/daughter or grandson/daughter could say "Grandpa bought this gun new in way back in '04 for his first elk hunt and it's been in the family ever since.". What would make it all the better is if that gun were thought of in the future the same way that we think of the classics of the early 20th century today. Thanks for your thoughts, Bob | ||
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I think the Ruger 77 RSM's (the Safari magnums) have a good shot, as they have a lot of handwork and unique features as well as the beautiful wood. Ruger #1's, too. Kimber's rifles are nice. Those new American-made Henry rifles. Pedersoli Kodiak Mk IV's and Merkel double rifles might qualify (inexpensive for class, but well built and a value for what you get), though now perhaps we're in the gold leaf/engraved category for you. Also, in pistols, I think those S&W model 3 Schofields they made for a couple of years and Kimbers might make the grade. | |||
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Today's production rifles retain their value about as well as does fresh fruit. If I were going to put a new rifle away as an investment, I would consider one of the straight pull designs such as the Heym SR30 or the Blaser 93. Preferably with a special order stock or caliber. I don't really see their designs as being better than other rifles, but they do demonstrate quality in a unique production rifle (the Browning straight-pull Acera is junk). Other choices would be the magnum mausers by Johannsen, Heym or Mauser (not unique designs, but top notch quality). | |||
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I don't think there is really any out there at the moment. The better made actions with one piece bolts like Pre 75 Sako and Wby Mark Vs and actions such as the Blaser are not the type of design to become classics. I don't think the current Model 70 will become one if only because of the two piece bolt. With Ruger, I think being investment cast will prevent it from making the classic category. Perhaps the CZ Magum action?? Mike | |||
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Possibly the Browning Recoiless Trap shotgun. I remember being able to buy almost new ones for like $500 (probably still can?). It might be seen as ahead of its time. Or as an ugly abomination and an oddity. One day I will probably regret not buying one of them when they were being given away after production stopped. Did have a bit of a long locktime though. As far as rifles go? Probably a rimfire or small centerfire CZ or something. People will be saying "man I could have bought one so cheap and now look how much they cost." | |||
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Quote:  In 1964 my dad bought 2 new in the box model 12's from a Walgreens that was getting out of the gun business. The store had had them for a couple years at the time he bought them, and they have consectutive serial #'s. They still sit in their boxes, in his safe, coming out every few years for an oiling. He tells me the store owner wanted $100 a piece for them, but he took $175 for the pair. >>>====> I agree with Mike375, I don't think there are any out there right now. But, every generation likely says the same thing. | |||
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Marlin's cowboy rifles and their guide guns will be classics I think. David | |||
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Anything in .30-06 - oops that already is a classic, along with the .30-30 which long preceeded it into the gloom. Brent | |||
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Mike, The current M70 Classics have a 2-piece bolt? Did the pre-64 models have 2-piece bolts? The Sako M75 has a 2-piece bolt, too? What is the previous model called? Thanks, Scott | |||
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Scott, Pre 64 is one piece. Rem 700 is 3 pieces....bolt handle, bolt body and the bolt head. As far as I know the Sako75 has a one piece bolt but it does not have an integral recoil lug and I think it would be very unlikely for an action with a separate recoil lug to beome a "classic" The previous Sakos had names like L61 Finnbear for the long action. I forget the numbers for the two shorter actions but in Australia the 243 and 308 rifles were called Forresters and the 222 and 223 were Vixens. Mike | |||
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Although not a current production rifle, I think the Sako Finnlight will achieve classic status someday. Of the current production rifles, I believe the Tikka Whitetail Hunter will fill a niche in the varmint hunter's category. | |||
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I'm not sure how to define "classic". That is, are you talking about something that has withstood the test of time and is regarded as well today as it was 50 or 75 years ago, or something that is in demand largely because it is no longer available? I tend to start thinking of something as a classic just because it was new when I was young, and neither is the case now. The best example I can give is a Model 57 Marlin Levermatic .22 LR. It was certainly a serious departure in the 60's from the Model 39 saddle guns, but its genuine oiled walnut stock and all-steel construction make it seem a classic to me compared to todays plastic-and-aluminum .22's. I would say that right now, most discriminating shooters regard virtually any rifle, even the rather economical ones, from the 50's or earlier as "classics", i.e., the Remington 721-722, Winchester 43, Savage 340. Although not quite "classic", used Remington 788's are in strong demand and have almost a cult following. What all of these have in common is that they are no longer made. It seems that any gun which didn't sell particularly well at the time, especially if it was fairly well-made, comes into great demand about 15 years after its discontinuation. Examples would be the Winchester 88 and 100, Belgian Browning Safari, or H & R 317. Less well-made guns like the Remington 600/660 and Remington 11-48 are also in great demand, just because they are no more. I think that any quality firearm being produced today, but which your typical dealer doesn't stock because of slow demand, is subject to becoming a "classic". | |||
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Quote: Taking the judgement of an insurance salesman on the technical merits of rifle is like asking a chimp how to get to the moon. | |||
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Allen, I like those US Firearms guns, too. I've wondered, though, if they'll keep their value like a (poorly finished, almost non-functional) Colt. I'd love to get one, but I guess they're affected by the latest gun ban here in Maryland. Orion1, why beat on Mike? Steve | |||
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Quote: If he said anything with sense in it, I wouldn't. The guy is technicalli illiterate. He claims that scope mounts that scew onto the receiver are stronger than those that clamp on to tapered dovetails machined on the receiver itself. I go on to explain how recol forces act axially to the bore and on a shear plane to the screws that hold the conventional bases on, while dovetail bases (like Sako) are not exposed to the shear forces on their point of attachment to the receiver and tighten themselves up on recoil. I explain how the forces acting on a recoil lug do not care if the lug is attached to the receiver or not (again, it depends on the plane the forces act upon). He still doesn't understand what I'm saying. | |||
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The AR-15 is a classic. It is now an extremely reliable and accurate rifle. It dominates NRA target competiton in both service and match rifle configurations. Ask yourself this: how come it's ALWAYS the REMFs who seem to have problems with their M16s? How come combat troops never have jams? Could it be that the combat arms actually give a shit about cleaning their rifles every now and then, and don't flood them with oil? Forget Vietnam. Today's rifle has little in common with the M16A1. | |||
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Orion 1 posted: I go on to explain how recol forces act axially to the bore and on a shear plane to the screws that hold the conventional bases on, while dovetail bases (like Sako) are not exposed to the shear forces on their point of attachment to the receiver and tighten themselves up on recoil. Firstly, if the recoil stud on the Sako is allowed to be used then that negates the tapered dovetails. If the tapers are allowed to be used then the mounts will lose the detachability of the straight dovetail cross slot mounts. Also if the tapers are allowed to be used there are problems when the Sako type mount is used because of the opposing screw on each base, but without the opposing screw then the bases lose the detachability. You should note that the most expensive Magnum Mausers in the world (which tend to be in the biggest calibres) are straight dovetails and straight dovetails are used for accuracy rifles. Bases that are screwed and expoxied or screwed and soldered do not shift or break off. I explain how the forces acting on a recoil lug do not care if the lug is attached to the receiver or not (again, it depends on the plane the forces act upon). The detachable recoil lug is a case of being "not a nice thing". In the case of round actions they need to be pinned if a switch barrel setup is being used without a "glue in". However, in the case of the Sako system it does not make bedding any easier and common practice with that action is to throw the recoil lug in the bin and use the Rem 700 washer system. In fact I think that is what Saeed does with the later Sakos. Mike | |||
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I reckon the cz 550 safari magnums will be sought after one day and I also think the limited runs of reproduction rifles like the 1886 xtra lite will be to. | |||
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Quote:Quote: Having corresponded with Mike for many years now, I'd say he knows a thing or two about guns  Yes, he may sell insurance, but I'll take his experience having fired many 10 of thousands of rounds from some 100 or better guns, and having taken several head of game over someones theoretical ponderings.There is a big difference between the real world and a computer model. | |||
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Quote:Exactly! | |||
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Ruger 10/22. They'll still be playing with that one long after we ALL have reapped are JUST rewards roger | |||
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Possibly the T/C .22 Classic or the new Remington 504. Maybe also the Para-ordnance LDA pistols. | |||
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned Dakota firearms. I've never owned one but a gunshop in town used to have couple in stock. I thought they were absolutely beautiful rifles. Terry | |||
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Well I hope these turn into classics as I have bought them to pass on. 1895CB,1897Texan,39A, 336 pre crossbolt (Marlins) Custom Shop PRO Elite Kimber and a Custom Stainless 5 Performance Center S&W and ALL the pre lock S&W's I can get my hands on espescialy blued and nickled Rem 700 Titanium, Weatherby Accumark.................OTTO | |||
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Quote:Quote:Quote: That's like saying a winning race car driver is an expert engineer and can design and build a winning car. Bullshit, in so many words. I'm sick and tired of arguing with a lightweight like Mike. When he brings to the table four years of top notch engineering education, plus nearly a decade of manufacturing engineering expertise, I'll listen to him. Otherwise, FO. | |||
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Stonecreek named a bunch I think will make it. I would add Dakota Arms and the Benelli Super 90 Montefeltro, Benelli Super Black Eagle and yes, the Ruger 10/22. The Montefeltro forced most shotgun manuf. to get after it and make a shotgun that would fire 2 3/4" and 3" both and then the Super Black Eagle was the first of the semi auto 3 1/2" toys going. They work and keep on working. Dakota was the fist "production" custom rifle going that the ave. firearms buyer could afford to purchase. The Ruger 10/22 will have to join the crowd just because there are so many sold and EVERYONE makes something that you can buy to modify your stock 10/22. AMT tried to copy it and got sued and lost!  I only have 4 of them at the moment including one that is suppressed. The rabbits on my ranches hate them! Guess you would have to add the Ruger #1 as it sure created the market and desire for single shot rifles of all calibers...not to mention the calibers it has been made into that were never issued by the Ruger factory. Now that I think it over...I have all those brands and most of the model I mentioned myself.  | |||
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The Remington 710 (just kidding) Here in Scandinavia, and in most of Northern Europe, the rifles featuring easy barrel and cartridge/caliber change are proving more and more popular, especially because many countries weapon legislation becomes more and more strict on owning several weapons. In many of these countries owning one rifle with several barrels is considered as ONE rifle. The Sauer 200 system (202) has a very smooth bolt-operation, easy barrelchange, extremely good out-of-the-box accuracy, has been selected as several European counties match-rifle-system (STR200), but lacks a little in reliability compared to a M98 Mauser(but then what action doesn't?) - I must mention that I have great expectations conserning the new Mauser M-03 rifle! (hope it comes in more shapes than the brochure I've read... - finally a worthy "successor" to the M-98?) These two choices are my contribution to tomorrows classics.  | |||
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