I've been trying to work up some good loads for a 375 H&H Magnum I have with limited success. I think the reason is the belt which can cause all sorts of problems from ruptured cases and poor accuracy to fungal infections.

When I had my custom barrel made, I could have gotten it chambered for pretty much any common hunting cartridge made but, after looking at brass prices and availability decided to go with the hoary old and next thing to obsolete 375 H&H Magnum cartridge which has a belt. I could just as easily have gone with the better than anything since the invention of cream cheese 375 Ruger which has no belt.

I now know my error. I was penny wise and pound foolish and am paying the price. I'm hoping someone knowledgeable can help me salvage a very bad situation.

This was the first load I tried with my new gun and as you can see the results are far from ideal. After some soul searching, I've seen some of the errors of my ways but perhaps you can show me more. The obvious thing is that I used brand new brass and didn't size it or trim it or even chamfer it. The results speak for themselves.

Here are my results of today's efforts. NOT good. I corrected some of my previous mistakes. At least I sized my brass; I had to since I had already shot it once in another 375 H&H Magnum. Actually I may have previously shot it in two different 375 H&H Magnums; one a cheap Encore rifle and the other a Blaser R 93 which are known to blow up and put the bolt through your face if you fill the cartridges for it with fast handgun powder. I also don't know how many times it had been resized, I didn't use the "special" die to resize near the head or use the Wilson thing-a-ma-jiggy to measure how much I pushed the shoulder back. In fact, I don't even have a Wilson thingy.

Any suggestions? Should I trash the barrel and get one made for a better cartridge like the 375 Ruger?

Well, I'm sure your disappointment caused you to post this in the medium bore forum instead of the big bore. But fear not, all is not lost. I'm thinking you may need to check the crown and do a trigger job. Also, it may need a hundred rounds thru it to settle down. I think you could be thumbing it a bit-work on that bench technique. Might want to weigh those cases too. One bit of advice, avoid shooting it in an indoor range as the thermo-baric effect of all that muzzle flash could suck the oxygen out of the room.

And as long as you stick with the "new" brass you will probably be ok. Heck you probably will be ok with reloads since the barrel is so short you can't possibly get much pressure built up. I guess it is too late to rechamber to a non-belted canidate.

Good Shooting!

God Bless, Louis

quote:

I now know my error. I was penny wise and pound foolish and am paying the price. I'm hoping someone knowledgeable can help me salvage a very bad situation.

Sorry, but I can't help, looks like you gonna have to live with it. That's sad.

You'd better get rid of the whole gun, scope, ammo combination. I'd be happy to PM you my contact information so I can properly 'dispose' of it for you.

I am having similar issues with a 338 winchester magnum, btw.

Just partial size your brass when reloading fired brass. Make sure you don't set the shoulder back. I normally back the sizing die off one full turn. Then your ammo will headspace on the shoulder and the belt becomes non-functional. I only full length size maybe every fourth or fifth time. I don't full length size until loaded rounds get hard to chamber. Then just set the shoulder back barely enough to allow the round to chamber.

quote:

I'm hoping someone knowledgeable can help me salvage a very bad situation.

Grum,

You asked the right Guy.



Wrong Forum - but since you've started the thread here .....

Shame on you for wasting that kinda cash - when my Wife finds out you're gonna be in REAL trouble .....



First of all; a 404J case is the only way to go, it isn't really a Big Bore since you're missing about 26" of barrel & it doesn't hold four down; so please modify accordingly.

Why the F**k are you using RL-15 since your're blowing 64 of 65 grains out the bore? I have a Blue Dot load for you.

It's got a Muzzle Brake so you have to sit in the back of the Bus at the Range.

Better go back to a refresher course to refine your bench technique; I mean there's a whoping .075" difference in those groups - I think it's your breathing. If not, it's the bedding ..... but check the crown first, then the mounts.

Typical - fits into your pathetic Grand-Scheme-of-Firearms concept; T/C Encore, Blaser & such why didn't you make it on a Blue-Printed Remington .221 Fireball platform?

I KNOW I've got a "Growing Belt" issue because I had to climb into one of my suits last weekend to go to a wedding .....

Grumulkin,

I see your problem... i have the same issue with my 338WM

Never a problem with belts. Ever. But I'm shooting rifles.

I see one major problem with both these targets: the first one was shot with entirely the wrong bullet; the difference in weight between the three projectiles is obvious.

The second group was shot with the Barnes bullets: absolutely horrible accuracy, and they are known for such performance.

I would recommend you start completely over with new brass from Huntington Die Specialties and find someone willing to lathe turn your projectiles.

I know you aren't sleeping at night because of this extremely poor performance. Perhaps my recommendations will help.

quote:

lathe turn your projectiles.

NO, they have to be Lathe turned, IN Europe, or you couldn't possible kill anything bigger then a dove with them.

And is that an American made scope?? Unless the glass is made is Austria or Germany, there is just no way you could see the target at 50 yards, let alone 100.

Thank-you all for all the suggestions.

The point has been raised that this subject has been posted in the wrong forum. The caliber may be wrong but the subject; the reloading difficulties and accuracy problems inherent to the belted magnums is quite appropriate even in the medium bore forum. Also, there are places in the world where a 375 caliber rifle IS considered a medium bore so what we call medium bore would really be small bore and more suitable for mice and such.

I've tried to find a handgun scope by Zeiss, Schmidt and Bender or Swarovski without success so, though it pains me, I'll have to continue using my Leupolds.

Here I tried my gun at 200 yards. I know many will be critical of not shooting a handgun off hand but, I'm not that good so I shot from the bench. As you can see, my group size was a bit over 1.6 inches when I had been hoping for something under 0.5 inches. If I had only had my barrel chambered for the 375 Ruger, I probably would have been successful.

Contrast the pitiful belted magnum accuracy with that of a rimmed cartridge. Though not in the half inch range, this group is quite a bit better at only a bit over 1.5 inches center to center.

Interestingly, I have found the 375 H&H Magnum is at least good for insects but maybe not much more. We've had a horsefly invasion. They're VERY pesky. Well, whilst shooting my 375, one fell out of the air dead killed by the muzzle blast.

I haven't yet found a source for lathe turned European bullets but I have contacts in Norway and else where and I'll be working on that.

Once again, thanks for all the kind advice.

quote:

I think the reason is the belt which can cause all sorts of problems from ruptured cases and poor accuracy to fungal infections.

Can't help you with the ruptured cases and degraded accuracy, but when reloading if you'll lubricate your belted cases with Lamisil treatment for athlete's foot it will cure the problem with fungal infections. Using Lamasil is the only thing that's allowed me to shoot and reload for a dozen rifles chambered for belted cases for the last 44 years. Before I discovered it my chambers itched like hell.

If you happen to be in a higher tax bracket you may want to consider a prescription anti-fungal instead of the plain over-the-counter stuff. Prescription-grade doesn't work any better but it is tax-deductible.

quote:

Before I discovered it my chambers itched like hell.

Well, the belted magnum accuracy problems keep on coming. I know some would question anything about a 378 Weatherby Magnum being in the "medium bore" section of the forum but it's so important that the problems inherent to belted cartridges be disseminated I felt it proper to post here since there are so many more shooters of medium bores than of so called large bores.

Anyway, for years I had lusted after the 378 and 460 Magnum offerings but hadn't gratified my desire. I finally decided that when the next 378, 416 or 460 Weatherby Magnum came up at a good price I would buy it. I was kind of leaning toward the 378 Weatherby but wanted one without a brake. I have no moral objections to brakes and care not about who may be shooting beside me as I feel they can either move or use double hearing protection like I do. Also, I do most of my shooting at my own range with only my wife Sweetsums to bother. She stays indoors and wears hearing protections when I shoot.

At long last I found a pretty pristine (I wonder why so many 378 Weatherbys are pristine) 378 Weatherby Magnum with no brake at an appropriate price and bought it. I usually go for boring stainless steel with synthetic stocks; the Weatherby is definitely the prettiest gun I've ever owned and was to me, surprisingly light. I've been working on loads for it since it's recent purchase.

There are a number of things I've learned about this gun and cartridge:

1. Shooting it is a good substitute for chiropractic manipulation thus saving money.
2. This gun likes a lightly fouled barrel to shoot best unlike my Encores and Blaser which don't seem to care.
3. The muzzle blast will move tree branches 15 feet down range and 6 feet to the side as in a heavy wind.
4. The first shot is always about a foot high after reattaching the Leupold Mark 4 scope in QD rings a problem which is soon to be solved with permanently attached scope/rings.
5. Even with crimping to the start of case deformation isn't enough to keep bullets in the cartridges in the magazine from moving under recoil so I'll be getting a custom Lee Factory Crimp die.

I know I'm taking the long way around but what I'm getting to is the accuracy problem and other problems inherent in reloading the belted magnums. Since Weatherbys are proverbial for having generous free bore and since Barnes bullets like a jump, I though Barnes bullets with my Weatherby would be a match made in heaven. I could have avoided the belt problem simply by purchasing a 375 RUM with only a 100 to 200 fps velocity loss but, stupid me, I followed my heart instead of my head.

There was a bit of controversial information in loading manuals about starting load and maximum load for the bullet weight I wanted to use. Luckily I was able to compare data and find a safe starting point. It wasn't hard to get 2 inch or even 1.5 inch groups but I wanted the accuracy bolt actions guns are famous for; something under 0.5 inches. As I increased the powder weight, group sizes shrunk to just a little over an inch until finally, at 109 grains this group appeared. I think this is the best the gun will do since further increases in the powder charge though safe from a pressure standpoint, resulted in larger groups. So, I'm stuck. I either have to be satisfied with what I have or try different bullets and/or powders and/or primers. Or, I could just sell the gun and get something to replace it that shoots something without a belt.

What would you do?

I was hoping to use it on Ohio Elk since if you really respect an animal you should it with a bullet as expensive as you can afford.

For more information on the challenges of Ohio Elk hunting, please see the link below.

Ohio Elk Hunting

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
Here I tried my gun at 200 yards. I know many will be critical of not shooting a handgun off hand but, I'm not that good so I shot from the bench. As you can see, my group size was a bit over 1.6 inches when I had been hoping for something under 0.5 inches.

Grumulkin, the reason your 200 yard groups are so much bigger than your 100 yard groups is easily discerned. For your 200 yard shooting you are simply using a barrel that is too short. If you install a barrel about 3600 inches (300 feet) longer then you will find that your 200 yard groups are nearly identical to the 100 yard groups shot with the shorter barrel.

By the way, make sure you keep a fire extinguisher handy when using the 3600 inch barrel on 100 yard targets. The muzzle flash has a tendency to ignite paper targets at that distance.