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I have a neat older Weatherby Vanguard LtWt. Off the bag the rifle shoots better than I can exploit. Freehand...or prone or anything other than a firm rests and I just can't hold the darn thing steady. Do you guys think it is a matter of practice or part of the tradeoff of a light weight barreL/ In other words- can I practice my way out of it? Its a great shooting rifle but in the field, offhand, (how I usually shoot) it goes from MOA (bag) to 4 inch groups! ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | ||
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practice... I have never believed in that "long heavy barrels settle well" thing Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Practice, practice, practice. Also, perhaps you need to relax a bit. Sometimes you can try too hard. | |||
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No doubt that Heavy barrels do hold steadier, because it is harder for them to respond to small muscle movements or your heart beat. As for your rifle, I'd encourage you to Dry Fire your rifle, as slowly as you possibly can, in a dark room, without any noise in the background. Focus on e-a-s-i-n-g the trigger back as slow as you can and see if you can feel any Drag, Creep, or movement at all. You should be totally unaware that anything is moving until the Sear Releases - it should surprise you. If you can detect any movement, it is time for a Trigger Tune-Up. Any competent Gun Smith can do it for much, MUCH less than the cost of an aftermarket trigger assembly. Have someone check your Heart Beat. If it is above 65-70, then you need to do something to get it under control. The slower the better for shooting. If it is too high, it can be as simple as too much Salt(mine was clicking along at 100 after too much salt a couple of weeks ago), too much Caffine, Nicotine, or any of the stimulants. Do some Weight Training for your arms. The old "Wind the Bucket of Sand up and down with a rope and broom handle" is as good today as it has ever been. It works all the arm muscles at the same time. Just hold your arms straight out, wind it up, wind it down, and back up in the other direction. Start with 5-6 reps and add one each day until you get to 12. Add weight and start the reps again. When you can wind the back of your pick-up off the ground, you have gone far enough.  If you do the above, then the practice will actually help you. Otherwise, you are fighting the "Shakes" whether you realize it or not. Best of luck to you. | |||
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Physics won't be denied. When you pull the trigger you are imparting a force (moment?) on the rifle that is going to have an affect. The size of the affect is going to depend on the mass of the rifle. Less mass = more affect. That's the case even if you can hold it steady enough to release the shot in the first place..... I have a light weight rifle - it's beautiful and a delight to carry. I take it out when I'm bored of 'normal' hunting or in the mood. I tell myself that I'm willing to put up with it's and my reduced abilities. The truth was somewhat different when I came across a HUGE roe buck one morning. Out went putting up with limitations, in came a gut wrenching desire to shoot that magnificent trophy  . I made the shot but only just and it took every ounce of skill I ever had and then some. I still take that rifle out but very rarely. Every time I'm tempted to use a nice light rifle I remember that incident and find myself taking my ugly, heavy, muzzle heavy, moderated, M700 with it's Jewell. I've never yet levelled it at a deer and thought 'I wish it were lighter' So you can get better but you will never be as good and there may come a time when you bitterly regret it! | |||
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I actually shoot the light rifles better. My "go to" rifle is a Micro-Medallion in 308. But then again, I have small hands and bad shoulders. Practice and you should be fine. Heavy guns are fine if you are in a stand, but suck to carry. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Great advice guys- I do appreciate it and thank you very much. Yea, I think my heart rate is pretty normal but get frustrated trying to get a steady hold, time passes, arms cramp up, so you have to stop, shake out the arms and try again. Good point re coming across a great trophy and not being able to make the shot. Again, great advice. ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | |||
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With a lwt. rifle put your scope on the lowest power and practice dry firing snap shooting (see below*) at a 50 yd. target with both eyes open... You will see your trigger break on the target once you get the hang of it. Then try it at different ranges up to 100 yd or so....For further shots find a rest.. *By snap shooting start with rifle pointed down, move to your shoulder raising your rifle up to the target in a steady motion keeping your right elbow parallel to the ground...keep the rifle MOVING and as it breaks over the target pull the trigger.... .22rf works great for practice... I read about this type of shooting a number of years ago... Practice a few minutes each day in decent weather or indoors and you'll will be amazed.. I practice with my 6.25# Model 7 .260 and I don't feel handicapped at all..Love that rifle.. | |||
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Personally, I don't like lightweight barrels. Even off a solid bench, I have found that they are very rarely shoot as well as normal or relatively heavier barrels. In fact, for all my own hunting rifles, I installed a heavier barrel than normal, and I haven't looked back. | |||
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Use a "hasty sling" when you shoot. Or try a "Safari Ching Sling". Galco makes a pretty good "Safari Ching Sling". It only requires the two standard sling attachment points. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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yea the sling idea sounds like a great idea. I have a sling on all my rifles even the heavy barrels. They are great for standing shots. | |||
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I had a featherweight barrel on my .30/06 and didn't like it. I replaced it with a #3. ............................................. | |||
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I shoot my lightweight rifles better offhand...of course I'm dyslexic, so a lot of things in life I am backwards on. It's as simple as being able to hold the rifle easier for me....from the bench they all shoot about the same for me, maybe that's cause I'm not that great, but I'm better than all my friends I do agree with the practice thing at all times, but just out of curiousity, do you shoot your heavier rigs better? Don't recall if you said as I'm typing this. At any rate, I have found that I can do slightly better offhand with LESS magnification, which is contrary to my bench shooting, or any shooting from a rested position for me..... Good luck! | |||
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Only light barreled rifles I've owned that I really like are ones with longer barrels. This helps the balance while still mantaining a light rifle. Here is a good example of one I had done last year. It comes in at a little over 6 1/2 lbs (not super light) but still has a great balance with it's 22" pac-nor feather weight barrel.  Most of the time we sacrafice balance for weight savings which makes the rifle hard to shoot. After owning a 24" barreled BRNO 21H I found out this didn't have to be the case. You can have it both way's. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Considering your handle as 404 jeffrey..are you sure you are not use to flinching on recoil, and the heavy rifles don't wander as far as the fore end of a light rifle is wandering on you... | |||
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i had the same problem with my lightweight rifles till i started treating them like a toy. hold them lightly and control the movement. much like was explained earlier. i shoot a 1911 the same way bring it down from the recoil and line the sights back up while raising the gun back to the target,hesitating and squeezing. | |||
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When shooting stationary targets offhand, I find muzzle heavy barrels are much easier to hold on target; lighter barrels tend to wander around more. The heavy barreled rifles are a bit harder to get on a running target in the field, however. Dry firing can be extremely beneficial to offhand shooting with any weight rifle, as has already been stated. Regards, hm 2 Chronicles 7:14: If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. | |||
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You need to learn how to wrap your sling, if you have one. I had some slings custom made for my 6.5x55 and 9.3x57 Swede hunters. They are 6lb Rifles. 5/8 saddle leather that has been rubbed on a waxed 3" dowl. If your a righty, put left arm through sling, wrap outwards at elbow and bring your hand back to the stock. I can send you the E-mail of the guy that makes mine. He sends extra keepers w/ them. About $65.00 each.    | |||
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Like Saeed, I like muzzle weight. It can be a longer light weight barrel, preferably a 24 in. that is .630-.650 at the muzzle for a 7mm-.30 caliber. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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sounds like you need an experienced range instructor to help out with rifle fit and hold , stance, breathing heart rate , an a bunch of other stuff try a smallbore gunclub and shoot for score starting prone , then progress to sitting , kneeling,offhand. your fighting with your gun and it isnt going to hold still until learn the tricks the target shooters use If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tuff. | |||
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If I'm reading this correctly and you're shooting a 4 MOA group standing with a hunting rifle, I don't know WTF you're complaining about. That means that you will be within 2 inches of your aimpoint at 100 yards. Not many can hold that well with a standard rifle and no shooting jacket in a standing position. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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That's a good point, Gato--true that! | |||
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