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Gents, I am considering geting a medium bore rifle and right now a 9.3x62mm CZ550 American is looking favourite although to be honest I am a little worried about the recoil. However, I have also seen a couple of nice 8x57mm Mauser's for sale and I am wondering if rechambering to the 8mm-06 is worth considering and if so how would it compare to the 338-06 for the large African plains game? In the real world, would a 8m-06 offer a noticeable advantage the 30-06 with 220grn bullets? Regards, Pete | ||
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I cant directly answer any of these I dont think, but here's my 2 cents anyway. The .338-06 is factory loaded now, but its still pretty rare. So you're pretty much going to have to handload either. Brass for either will be easy to get, bullets are much easier to get for the .338 than the 8mm (at least here in the US). I see the .308 and the .323 as in the same class, with the .338 in a bigger class. In reference to the 8mm vs the 338 on African game, I would think that would depend a great deal on the distances you'll be shooting. On the plains, or in the bushveld? | |||
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Check this out: thread on 8mms It offers quite a bit of insight as to the merits of the 8mm bore, and the 8mm-06 in particular. | |||
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Pete, I handload and shoot both the 338/06 and the 30/06 with the 220 grain bullets. IN order of " capable" I would have to list the 338/06 first, ( especially with 250 grain bullets, or the 225 grainers), next would come the '06 with the 220 grain Round Nose you mentioned. Finally would be the 8mm/06. I don't shoot one of these, but handload for a couple of 8 mm Mausers. That being said, I would really have to stretch it, to say that anyone is going to make or break the chance at getting the quarry over the other. There is no down side to any choice you make. All three will pack plenty of punch,. to hang a job on a good sized critter. I don't think the recoil on a 338/06 or a stiff load in an '06 or the 8mm/06 is going to me noticably less that the 9.3 mm you were looking at. Based on bullets available in that bore dimension, the 338 bore would be the choice if range was an issue, then the '06. bullet selection, at least on this side of the pond, is much less abundant of the three. Good luck on whatever your choice, Cheers, Seafire | |||
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Where you are, I would get the 9.3. Ammo & components will be easier to find. I have a .338-06 & love it but I handload almost exclusively & components are readily available. Recoil shouldn't be a problem, start w/ the lighter bullet weights & work up to the 286gr heavies. | |||
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Thanks gents, I was looking for a medium bore that was a significate improvement over my .308 or the 30-06 I may replace it with. I did read the earlier threads on the 8mm-06AI but i was surprised that most folks feel it seems to fall short of the 338-06AI. My only interest in the 8mm-06AI was because it offered a relatively cheap, quick and straight forward upgrade on certain 8x57mm Mausers I have seen advertised. I am still leaning towards the 9.3x62mm CZZ550 if I can get it with the American stock configeration here in the UK...I am hoping that with that stock and a decent recoil pad, the recoil will be OK... Regards, Pete | |||
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Pete, Isn't the 9.3X62 loaded with a 232 gr bullet? I would think that would provide what the 8-06 and 338-06 are capable of, and then you have the 286 gr load, that leaves the smaller bores behind. While there may be some good deals on 8X57's, the question is whether the barrel is in decent enough shape to justify a re-chamber. Also, most 8X57 magazines are too short to allow the 8-06 to be loaded to it's proper length. I generally always choose the larger bore. You can load it with lighter bullets and lower velocities for milder recoil, or load it up to full patch levels. Smaller bores never share that versatility. Every time I visit our local CZ dealer, I heft the full stock 9.3X62 and have a hard time putting it back in the rack. | |||
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You know, this thread should really be called 8x64 S vs. 8,5x63.  Regards, Carcano | |||
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Pete It seems that some people are quick to pass judgement without any first hand experience. I have used an 8mm06 on moose and several black bears and I would say it is more effective than a 308 or 30-06. Several bullets that were brought out for the 8mm Rem mag are super in the 8mm06. The 200 gr speer bullet is a very good all round choice and the 220 gr Hornady or 220 gr Sierra are excellent on heavier game such as moose. If you can find a 8mm mauser with a good barrel I doubt you would ever be sorry if you re-chambered it to 8mm 06 or the improved version.  | |||
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So what is the big mystery here? the .323 (8.2mm) is exactly in the middle between .308 (7.82mm) and 338 (8.58mm. The 8mm-06 will have more energy with a given bullet weight than the 30-06, but less than the 338-06. The 8mm-06 will have a higher ballistic coefecient with a given bullet weight than the 338-06, but a lower one than the 30-06. The 30-06 will shoot the "flatest" the 338-06 will be best with the heaviest bullet weights. The 8mm-06 is an equal compromise between the two, but in my opinion it is perhaps the most efecient of the three as far as bore size to case capacity. Bear in mind that now that the 338-06 is a SAAMI cartridge, it has a specified standard SAAMI pressure of 65000psi. (according to "Quickload") To be fair to the 30-06 or the 8mm-06, they should be compared @ the same pressure. If you are hunting only medium size game such as Deer, perhaps the 30-06 would be the best choice. If you are only going to hunt game larger than Elk @ medium ranges, go for the 338-06. The 8mm-06 would be suitable for anything from Deer to all but the largest game. The big plus for the 8mm-06 is that an 8X57 can be easily reamed to 8mm-06. | |||
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Quote: An "intermediate" length M98 action such as the M48 Yugo is indeed too short for "06" class cartridges. A "standard length" action such as K98 or VZ24 have a magazine that is 3.315" long. The magazine only needs to be lengthened about .065" to .070" to an insde length of 3.38" to accomodate the "06" class of cartridges @ 3.34" This is easily accomplished with a file and perhaps a little work on the bolt stop. | |||
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Pete, What is it that you can't shoot with a 8x57mm? | |||
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Quote: You do have a point here, Clark. After all, it's the same bullet, and the game will care little if a bit more or a bit less energy will exit with the bullet remainders. The main advantage of the 8x60 S and the 8x64 S, apart from numbers crunching, is a bit of extra performance on medium heavy game (the 8x60 S was a popular "meat getter" in Africa, see Finn Aagard's testimony and many others), and the flatter trajectory, in order to be able to reach out some metres further. Regards, Carcano | |||
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Thanks for your views gents, I have read the other 8mm threads and was really trying to make things a little clearer inmy own mind... Why not the 8x57mm? I am looking for something that will do the medium and larger plains game and also be a decent "step up" from the 30-06... I actually had it in my mind that CS were offering their current 550 in 8x57mm and I saw it as a possible candidate for reaming out to 8mm-06. I evisaged it as having a bit more clout than a standard 30-06 but not much more recoil. However, on checking a couple of mazagines it seems that CZ no longer offer that caliber anyway, Regards Pete | |||
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Quote: Well, the 8x57 IS and the .30-06 are really on a par for most practical purposes. If you want a factory cartridge that surpasses the .30-06 by a step, the 8x64 S would of course be a good choice, with the additional benefit that the cheap existent .30-06 and 7x64 cases can be most easily reformed to this caliber. The European cartridge is really not that *far* above the .30-06, but in a new gun altogether, it is indeed an excellent and universal choice for most game on earth, except DG. Carcano | |||
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Pete I took my 8x57 Heym on two plains game hunts. It has accounted for about 30 one shot kills on african game - admitedly the majority being impala or warthog. It dropped everything so concvincingly that I would by very confident if I had it in my hands when hunting Eland. A 200 grain Barnes X or Norma Oryx at 2500 fps put into the engine room will drop any plains game at sensible (sub 250m) ranges IMO. | |||
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Quote: If I may ask - a traditional SR 20, the new SR 21 or the straight-pull SR 30 ? Quote: I fully agree. A rangefinder will be useful for a 200 grains bullet at 220, 250 or 270 metres , but I would assess the 8x57 IS's fine performance like you do.Best regards, Carcano | |||
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| <JOHAN> |
Carcano 91 I have to agee, don't give them an inch I'm very interested in a 8,5X64 Brenneke or 8,5X68 tempting cartridges, indeed I think that 8X64S would be a good modification, just a quick stab with the reamer  7,62X63 has never interested me much  I got a ZG-47 in 8X57IS and one in 8X64S  Do you know if Brenneke makes brass for the 6,5X64 Brenneke? All I have found is a Hungarian brand? Cheers /JOHAN | ||
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Dear Johan, Quote: Werner 'Reb does his very best to popularize and to standardize the 8,5x63, and he has recently noted that factory production should be forthcoming. Quote: Indeed. The really *big* advantage of this superb cartridge is that you can use factory ammo (very cheap from S&B, expensive from Brenneke) with equal ease as handloads. Quote: Yes, please go on. Make me even more envious  . You have already teased me very succesful with the 10,75x57; if you know of one for sale, please drop me a line !Quote: The 6,5x64 Brenneke was previously produced by MEN, who however have given up their civilian ammo line since a couple of years (only police/military business now). I should think that the inventor of this European clone of the 6,5-06, Ing. Hannes Kepplinger, also would offer ammo for sale, by I do not know whether it bears the "right" headstamps. Regards, Carcano | |||
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carcano91 Yes, I know I'm evil If I find one I will certainly contact you.I'm sorry to hear that MEN left the scene. I think the 6,5X64 if a more well designed cartrigde than the RWS version. I hate cases with short necks. Guess the easiest way would be to check with Dieter Horneber or neck down 6,8X64 or 7X64 cases. I hope that the 8,5X65 Brenneke becomes a factory round. 338 win performance with no belt. I guess my favorite brand blaser will offer the 8,5X63 Regards JOHAN | ||
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Quote: Thank you very much - I certainly hope for it ! Quote: There went the 6x62(R) Fr�res, the 6,5x64, the 8x75 RS  .Quote: The German hunter, firearms dealer and gunwriter Heinrich Weidinger designed and wildcatted a German 6,8x64 a decade or more before Kepplinger and RWS. While, in turn, can be traced back to the superb and never-equalled two military Mauser rounds from the turn of the century, the 6,8x57 and 6,8x60 Chinese Mauser. Nil novum sub sole. Quote: I do not know of any such Brenneke project. Quote: They already did produce a limited run of exchange barrels in 8,5x63 about 2-3 years ago, due to popular demand and to Werner Reb's lobbying, and IMHO they are liable to do so again; either for the R 93, or - if that one should go belly-up now - for the new and rather decent Mauser 03. Regards, Carcano | |||
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What exactly is the...new and rather decent Mauser 03...? Is this a return to the days of high quality commercial 98 pattern Mauser rifles or is it another one of these new ones? | |||
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| <JOHAN> |
carcano91 The 6,8 are very simular to the much liked 270 win. I guess one can get a 270 with peace in mind Naturally, I was right about blaser, but sometimes the cause justifies the methods I hope the 8,5X63 catches on. the 8,5X64 is a wildcat by Herr Lutz M�ller based on the 9,3X64 Brenneke How does one get ammo for th 8X75RS today? I have seen that quite a few offers it in factory new rifles. kutenaymtnboy- The mauser 03 has some features from the silly blaser R-93, fortunately not all of them Cheers / JOHAN | ||
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Carcano It is a left handed SR20. It is my second SR20, the first being a 7x57 that was the most accurate sporting rifle I have ever seen. I have not had more than a passing glance at the SR21. I am not a fan of detachable magazines, but I like the layout of the safety. Heym SR20s are about the only quality rifle readily available in left hand in the UK. Regards | |||
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Pete If you can find a 318WR at Holts then you would be well set up for your Eland. They tend to go for very low money too. 250 grain Woodleigh @ 2500 fps. Mustard. | |||
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Deerdogs, Holts? I have not come across them, do you have any contact details? Who is the guy you use for stocking work? I know for a cheap nearly new CZ 550 in .375 H&H which might be a candidate for restocking in the classic english style... Regards Pete | |||
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Holt and Company. The auctioneers. They have a sale in early March and I usually get a catalogue. I'll let you know if anything comes up. They do have a web site but I am not sure of the URL. Stocking... hmmm... Try asking Ron Wharton who does his. He is very good whoever he is. | |||
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