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I'm having a dilemma with my handloads for the 338 Federal. I'm using Lapua cases, Federal match primers, and a full charge of H4895 and pushing 215gr Gamekings and 210gr Scirrocco II's. Both shoot to the same POI. Accuracy when seated to 2.810" is 1 1/4" and 1 3/4" respectively. When seated to 2.860 the groups are cut in half or better. My question is should I keep them at box length, or load them single shot at the longer length for hunting purposes. I'd prefer to use the Scirrocco's for hunting because they really held together well when shooting into the wet clay. Very impressed so far and a BC of .507. The Gamekings came apart mostly with a BC .485. Question #2 is how long do you guys let the barrel cool in between 5 shot strings? If I try two 5 shot strings in a row the groups begin to come apart. Is this common? Thanks in advance for the help. | ||
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You are wasting your time if the rifle can't be properly loaded. Get a Ruger #1 if you want a single shot rifle. Question #2 is how long do you guys let the barrel cool in between 5 shot strings? If I try two 5 shot strings in a row the groups begin to come apart. Is this common?
If you can't comfortably hold the barrel in your hand, it's too hot to shoot. Group enlargement from a hot barrel is a common problem with sporter type rifles, and it's often exacerbated by a poorly fitted stock. | |||
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Darn right....the bonded bullets are better.....now you may not need better....for deer I'd say use the more accurate bullet but for bigger game I'd go with the bonded bullet. As to the single shot idea.....as much as I don't like it you can use the first round in the chamber as a longer bullet.....afterall it's usually only one shot needed for hunting....98% of the time it is that way fr me at least! You can also try accubonds, interbonds, A-Frames, TBBCs, and other premium bullets but if they can't be fed through the magazine then I'd forget them. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Something else to consider.....the .338 Federal is not a super long range cartridge..... If you are actually shooting 2" groups, then the bullet will hit somewhere within 1" of the point of aim at 100 yards.....2" at 200 yards and 3" at 300 yards.....assuming you adjust for drop and wind as you must with any accuracy and bullet... While we would like better.....this is adequate for hunting the game the .338 federal was intended for....it's not a varmint cartridge. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Just curious, what is SAAMI spec for COL on the 338?? It sounds like yours could have a long throat?? Probably don't want to consider a rebarrel, but maybe that could help, Vapo or one of our other gurus could say better than me for sure--- I wouldn't have a repeater that I couldn't get rounds to function through the magazine to shoot well, I actually HAVE rebarreled a few rifles to get the chamber to match up with the round length I needed for my magazine. One other thought, have you tried bumping up your powder charge, I've found on ocassion that can compensate for the longer jump to the lands. | |||
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Beretta, I did a history, and it seems you posted awhile back building a 700VS 308, using a Lilja heavy bbl 24" 10Twist, SO it SHOULD SHOOT! Assuming all work done properly, scope and loads, etc. BUT, since your groups ARE cut in half with seating depth, it APPEARS your throat is longer than your loads that fit in the mag for max accuracy. Personally, (albeit a wait and hassle) I'd send the gun back to the smith, and have the bbl set back to where it needs to be, as I have ALWAYS told whoever barreled my rifle, I want the bullets to just touch, or a tad into them, when my bullet(s) of choice can still be run thru the mag. It is possible you experiment and set bullets deeper and perhaps find an accurate load. Lastly, Vapo does make a valid point many overlook. The group size is always DOUBLE the max variance away from your Point of Aim, SO, if you can live with his explanation, and accept that it may prove well accurate enough for hunting, at intended ranges.... But for me, I'd hate to have spent the money it cost for a custom, and NOT have sub MOA, and 1/2-3/4 would be the largest group I'd be expecting based on my experience, and my expectations. I wish you the best at whatever course you take. Single loading your first round at OPTIMAL seating is not a bad option......but if you want everything set up properly....it may need to go back. I will say that when I built a 338/06, I told the smith, throat it for 250s IN CASE I HAPPEN to use them....but in the long action, space was abundant. That said, I never shot them, but 200s/215s/225s ALL shot 1/2MOA and fit in the mag and likely allowed more powder to be used, so it all worked out. Short actions by design do not allow such a luxury of latitude in seating depth, and therefore it is critical details are adhered to when chambering to get the most out of them, w/o having to give up anything, i.e. loading shorter rounds in mag. I'd give a call to the 'smith, explain everything and ask for a estimate of time, and cost if any to correct. If need be, perhaps you can endure this hunting season 'as is' and then immediately ship it off to get the work done. Best of luck. | |||
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When I had this one built, it was my first and not knowing any better, I never thought to have the barrel set back closer to a box length round. I'll do as you guys mentioned and have it sent back after hunting season. When seated out she will shoot better then I can, but being a custom I expect almost varmint like accuracy as well. I think it will drive me nuts to accept 2" groups out of a custom. The only bullet weights I can try are up to 215gr since they get too long after that. The 185gr TSX shoots like a house on fire with RL7, 180gr accubonds are no hell and the 215gr gamekings and 210gr scirrocco are awfully close to the TSX loads when loaded long. Thanks for your help guys, | |||
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The reasons I was thinking about the single shot idea are like Vapo mentioned, you usually only need one round. So I was thinking about getting a single shot follower, loading the bullets long and I can get away with adding another grain or two of powder to up the speed a little as well. Maybe I'm just spinning my wheels for nothing and should send it back. I do have time to think about it along with your inputs. | |||
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You might look into extending the magbox and reworking the feed ramp so it will feed the longer rounds, that would probably cheaper then setting the barrel back. I think extended mag boxes are available from Brownells. | |||
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Does an extended magazine also require removal of metal behind the lower lug seat of the front of the action?......I suspect so..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Beretta, I'd be HAPPY to shoot nothing but those 185 Barnes, keep in mind, many caribou and elk have dropped and I would not be surprised other game with 120/140 x's in 260/7-08 class guns, so a 185 is no slouch in the killing dept. in my mind. Shoots tad flatter, just keep your shots to/under ranges that you are confident the bullet will open sufficiently. You'll do fine with that gun this hunting season, it's frustating as we ALL have had guns shoot under expectations - those who have owned/shot enough of them. Not meant to criticize your custom gun building process, the gunsmith should have been on top of it, period. Nothing is perfect and I am sure it will be improved when you can get it done. Give us a report when you break it in, properly...in the field! | |||
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The metal is removed from the rear of the magazine cut and the bolt stop is shortened. | |||
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I contacted the smith who built my rifle. He told me the chamber is SAAMI spec and since I didn't mention any specifics he went with spec. What pissed me off was, if I don't know what to ask for, how can I ask for it? I could have researched more and asked on this forum some more questions, and at the same time, he could have had a list of options and mentioned them to me. I will try the single shot follower for this hunting season and see how I like it, if not, he said he'd set it back in the new year. Thanks guys, | |||
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Does anyone know what the SAAMI specs are for the lenghth of throat in the 338 Federal? And is a 700 Remington short action too short to for the round loaded to SAAMI specs and chambered to SAAMI specs? | |||
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Ron, google and contact Federal, as they developed the ammo, see if you can get a saami copy of specs. THEN, get your smith to send you the Reamer spec printout to compare. Then you might see what is up. I DO agree that your smith should have asked specific questions and not have left an 'out' for themselves but strived to build EXACTLY what you wanted and needed. When chambering short action rifles, it seems extra crucial to consider OAL in loaded ammo as it relates to the magazine OAL, and how that matches to the throating. Sorry for the headache. Don't be too hard on yourself. One reason a good gunsmith gets paid, is to know and utilize the knowledge on the build to ensure customer satisfaction. | |||
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Try a diff. powder. I'll bet RL15 or VV150 will work well, maybe tighten those groups. I agree w/ vapodog, ro a hunting load, you are good out to 250yds+. It's not a 300yd round IMO. Vel. will be pretty low & expansion will suffer. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Fortunatly for me my Sako 338 Federal has a long magazine and oal is not a problem. I am just hopeing Mr.Beratta can get his problem solved without spending a wad of money and getting discouraged with a very fine round. | |||
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Ron, Was in a gun shop today and i hate to say that Mr beretta has screwed Sako, The A7 looked and felt like a P.O.S.! Sorry for the thread hijack! Ed DRSS Member | |||
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Well, on the weekend, I loaded some 215 gamekings and 210 scirocco II's again. This time I sacrificed a Federal case to determine my throat length. It's 2.90" with the scirroccos. I loaded 10 of each to a COL of 2.87" and WOW! I managed a 1.5" groups at 200 yards from a bench mind you. The gamekings went to 1 3/8". I've since ordered a single shot follower to see if I'd like it. If I'm content, it's a $20 fix. With accuracy like that I may not want to goof around with it. So what if it's a single shot? I did chrono my last couple of rounds of each and I'm getting 2603 fps with the scirrocco's. That puts me at the 2000 ft/lbs at 300 yards for moose. I'm very happy now! I may try Ramshot TAC next spring if I can get some. | |||
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Great news, I'd personally load a longer round for the first in the chamber, and still back it up with shorter ones in the mag, just because, but that is me. Yes, I'd be happy with your performance, that is nothing to sneeze at, so what if other rounds go faster, the Federal is capable w/in it's limits, and all rounds have their limits. Good hunting and give us a report when you get back from future trips! | |||
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Go with the less accurate load, that is good enough for ANY hunting situation you will encounter unless you want to shoot turkeys in the head...Loading single rounds is very amaturish IMO, its easy to get in trouble that way. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 338 federal, need opinions
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