Would love to hear from those of you who have hunted or will hunt with an 8X57, maybe the most underrated cartridge in the United States. I just picked up a clean Yugo 24/47 Mauser that I plan to put an aperture rear and ivory bead front sight on. I'll have a very capable rifle out of the deal for shamefully little money.

What do you want to hear? I myself hate the beating most of the 8mm mausers give with full throttle loads. Also hate many of them have iron sights that start at 300 yards. However I have one kill under my belt using my Dads bubbaed K98. I was in need of a rifle one year and borroed his.
Now I do own a Czech 98/22 that I really enjoy shooting with reduced loads useing Blue Dot powder. I could see me taking it out if hunting where shots will be at about 100 yards as it shoots very well. There is no doubt the 8x57 will do the job though

You sir are correct in every repect in your comments on the 8X57.. been some time since I used it, loaded with 180-200gr spitzer bullets.. Slay anything you point it at.. But you know how Americans are.. latest & greatest.. But hey... The 9.3's are coming around in the American way of thinking.. Or should that be, the Americans are coming around?

I have no complaints for the 8x57JS. The second deer I killed was shot with an 8x57 loaded with a minimum charged of Win 748.

You might say I like the 8x57JS about as much as I like fried backstrap and gravy.

Tex21,

most important part of that meal; Idaho Potatoes or some cheap imitation? I have heard that coonazzes are prone to russets...what about you Texicans?



Rich
DRSS

I have 4 mod. 98s in mil.condition and 2 sporterized in Scout configuration. Loaded up or down it will take anything in the lower 48 and than some.

I think the full appreciation of how great the 8mmX57mm really is can generally only be acquired with a fair degree of maturation. roger

I have 3; a Remington 700 Classic, a recently bought custom "cigarette" rifle built after WWII, and a military Mod 98 that my late father-in-law brought back from WWII. He took many deer and a black bear with that Mod 98.

Im with Bartshe on this one, its only after the quest quest for belted magnums, 40 degree shoulders and uber velocity fades and a fair amount of water passes under the bridge that we realize the old timers had it right the first time. I have a husky FN in 8x57 I plan on doing some spring bear hunting with in another couple of weeks or so. A 195 grn bullet poking along at 2650 from the muzzle should still be able to get it done me thinks.

Guys: Thanks for the comments. I have never hunted with the 8X57, but a new fondness for the 9,3X62 has me realizing that the American and British sporting and military cartridges I have focused on have led me to overlook the German rounds. When I look at the ballistics the old 8X57 yields, I can't help but wonder why so many guys can't wait to rebarrel their surplus Mausers.

By the way, I just re-read John Taylor's comments on this cartridge in "African Rifles and Cartridges" and he touts the excellent penetration and performance of the old German loading with a 244-grain bullet at just over 2,000 fps.

I guess I've done two "bads" I have several 8x57mm Mausers, and I've disassembled and rebarrelled several Mausers too. If you want a real "kick" try shooting a short barrel Mauser "Police Carbine", like a Dutch FN or a Persian CZ. They can be punishing, then, if the LA cops had something like them in the infamous bank robbery and shoot out of the 1990s, there would probably have been no serious incident as the police carbine would have smashed the engine block and ruined the getaway attempt at the start. Hunt with a 8mm Mauser? Does an 8x60 count?

LLS

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Would love to hear from those of you who have hunted or will hunt with an 8X57, maybe the most underrated cartridge in the United States. I just picked up a clean Yugo 24/47 Mauser that I plan to put an aperture rear and ivory bead front sight on. I'll have a very capable rifle out of the deal for shamefully little money.

This little gun is about the same, a Yugo M48A with milled bottom metal and recontoured barrel. It will shoot 1" all day long when I do my part. Normally I don't do "sported" mausers but I just wanted a truck gun. It's a great hog rifle and it cost all of $150.

that's nice- what is the receiver sight?

Thanks Tin Can, the sight is based on the Ashley Express sight. I made my own base so I could keep the stripper clip guide.

I have used it very little but I have shot some deer with the 160 gr. GS Custom HP and it sure did them in. I have shot some buffalo with a milsurp rifle and some old green milsurp ammo that didn't always fire, but again it worked. I would say it competes well with the old 06 and that ain't no light praise.

The 8mm is clearly superior to the 30-06 that tried to copy it. At least in properly loaded ammo, not the wimpy American crap.

Here is an 8x57 kill from last season using a 196gr Oryx, it is on a Ruger 77 tang action. Plan on busting a bear this spring with it..

quote:

Thanks Tin Can, the sight is based on the Ashley Express sight. I made my own base so I could keep the stripper clip guide.

I like a workin' rifle. If you ever take a close up photo of the sight, I'd like to add it to my aperture sight album, with your permission.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Tex21,

most important part of that meal; Idaho Potatoes or some cheap imitation? I have heard that coonazzes are prone to russets...what about you Texicans?

Rich
DRSS

Down in Texas, we eat biscuits with our backstrap and gravy.


My father was so impressed with the 8x57 that he bought himself a M700 Classic and now uses that as his exclusive deer rifle. There are no flies on the 8mm Mauser. It is perhaps one of the most overlooked and under-rated cartridges out there.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Would love to hear from those of you who have hunted or will hunt with an 8X57, maybe the most underrated cartridge in the United States. I just picked up a clean Yugo 24/47 Mauser that I plan to put an aperture rear and ivory bead front sight on. I'll have a very capable rifle out of the deal for shamefully little money.

I've got a Rem Model 700 Classic in 8x57 that I really like. With the 24" barrel it balances and handles very nicely. I took it to South Africa back in August 2005 for a plains game hunt. The Rem 700 in 8x57 was my backup/secondary rifle on that trip. I did most of my hunting with my CZ 550 in 9.3x62 but I did take a couple of Impalas and Warthogs with the 8x57.


My trophy Impala


Warthog as we found him after my shot. I know this isn't a proper pose for a photo, with the blood showing, but I wanted a photo of exactly how we found him after my shot. The 8x57 really knocked the snot out of him.


The other Warthog taken with the 8x57.

Both Warthogs were culls for the land owner to fill a meat order that he had. He let me do some of the culling for him; a little extra hunting for me with no charge for the animals.

My 8x57 handload was a 220 gr Woodleigh RN at approx 2400 fps using IMR-4350. (Load was chronographed.) The traditional bushveld ballistic formula of a heavy bullet at moderate velocity.

With European spec factory ammo or handloads loaded to its true potential, the 8x57JS is a fine cartridge. IMHO, it will basically do anything the .30-06 Springfield and .308 Winchester can do. The 8x57 doesn't get much press nowadays, but it's a dandy. I really like mine.

-Bob F.

I don't know if I would go as far as saying it is superior to the 30-06.

quote:

Originally posted by dopeydave:
Im with Bartshe on this one, its only after the quest quest for belted magnums, 40 degree shoulders and uber velocity fades and a fair amount of water passes under the bridge that we realize the old timers had it right the first time. I have a husky FN in 8x57 I plan on doing some spring bear hunting with in another couple of weeks or so. A 195 grn bullet poking along at 2650 from the muzzle should still be able to get it done me thinks.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Guys: Thanks for the comments. I have never hunted with the 8X57, but a new fondness for the 9,3X62 has me realizing that the American and British sporting and military cartridges I have focused on have led me to overlook the German rounds. When I look at the ballistics the old 8X57 yields, I can't help but wonder why so many guys can't wait to rebarrel their surplus Mausers.

I couldn't agree more. Such cartridges as the 6.5x57, 7x57, 8x57, 8x60, 8x64 Brenneke, 9x57, 9.3x62, and 9.3x64 Brenneke certainly show that the Germans knew what they were doing. I really like my 8x57 and my 9.3x62. They are two of my favorite rifles and cartridges.

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
By the way, I just re-read John Taylor's comments on this cartridge in "African Rifles and Cartridges" and he touts the excellent penetration and performance of the old German loading with a 244-grain bullet at just over 2,000 fps.

Bill,

Then you might be interested in this from the Woodleigh catalog:





http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/

I've got a couple of boxes of the 8mm 250 gr Woodleighs but I haven't tried working up a load yet for my 8x57.

-Bob F.

Mine ia a Brno Mod 21 - have used it extensively to cull feral horses and hogs. I use 180 gn ballistic tips of all things and it works really well.




GG

I have an Husky 648, the FN MAuser in 8x57 also, and its a great rifle, i thought that the 250 grain bullet wasnt going to be stabillized in the twist in the barrel.

but when RWS and DWM loaded it before with and 240 grain load so perhaps i shoudl get an box and load with or to rechamber it to 8x60S.


great round, good accuracy, and little recoil, an guncollection without and 8mm isnt an guncollction

See Bill... And here you thought you were all alone in your luv for the 8X57..

More excellent replies, and I sure appreciate them. Bob F.: Thanks for the info on the Woodleigh 250. If you could get that thing going at 2250, you'd have a hell of a medicine ball.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
I really like my 8x57 and my 9.3x62. They are two of my favorite rifles and cartridges.

http://www.lone-star-armory.com/
-Bob F.

Bob, I read some of the things you and others said in previous discussions about the 8x57, and it influenced me when I was making a decision about what to make with a good VZ24 action I have.

I have decided to barrel it in 8x57 using a Loather Walther Barrel. I have instructed my gunsmith that I want the rifle to be special. He is normally good with attention to detail, but I'm trying to give him the message to take extra effort with detail on this one.

I bought a Argentine 1909 magazine, so I could get the hinged floor plate without having to open up the feed ramp to match 06 length magazines. Also, I got a Wisner straddle floor plate and a new release, which requires some hand fitting.

Instead of welding a new bolt handle, I think I'm going to use a commercial FN bolt assembly. Perhaps that's not the most elegant, but it will be a very good solution, and most likely to not cause problems, such as fitting to a stock. The VZ military bolt that came with the action is not serial number matched with the receiver anyway.

Anyway, the whole thing is a bunch of pieces right now, and will require some time to properly assemble, but it's all there. I have a Dakota three-position safety, and a Blackburn trigger.

This Smith is not the best for refined stock work. That's just not his thing. So I'm probably going to have him fit it into a Butler Creek Stock for starters, which is a good and economical solution. I see that Butler Creek makes three versions of their '98 stocks - one for the MK X, one for FN Commercial, and one for the military 98. They are mostly the same, but inletted a little differently. The one I have on hand is for the military action and barrel channel, which can be opened up, but the 1909 military magazine will drop in without any fitting, or gaps, and the bolt handle notch is correct for the FN commercial bolt handle.

These Butler Creek stocks are surprisingly well designed for synthetics. They are slim, classic, quick, not slippery, not noisy, reasonably quite, impervious, and the cheek piecs is correct, and the butt section is cast off a little so my face alignes quickly with the scope. They also come with a very good recoil pad. If I had a walnut stock with the same qualities, it would be perfect. The main difference is the Butler Creek does not require special care, but the walnut will show every ding and scratch and when I carry one, I find that I spend a lot of time babying the rifle.

I have one Mauser that wears a McMillan classic style stock, and of course overall it is a better stock, but frankly I like the way the Butler Creek feels just as much as I like the McMillan, and the Butler Creek is way less expensive, and actually quiter than the McMillan. I don't think McMillan can be beat in synthetics/fiberglass though. In wood, the Accurate Innovation stocks look good, but I have no dirrect knowledge of how good they really are. The cost of the Accurate Innovation stock and a McMillan, both bedded in and all, seems to be close to the same.

I looked at the web page link you show for lone star armory, which looks like a good source for walnut stock work. Is this your recommendation?

I have purchases two boxes each of the 250 gr and 220 gr Woodleighs. I'm really looking forward to developing some loads, and hunting with this one. The LW barrel has a 9" twist rate, so the heavy bullets should work well through it.

KB

Kabluewy,

It certainly sounds like you're on your way to having a fine working rifle! I think you will be very pleased with your choice of the 8x57JS cartridge. And, IMHO it's a natural for a VZ24 action!

I can't fault your choice of a synthetic stock for a working rifle. Especially since you live in Alaska where I've read that the weather can be very hard on walnut stocks. I prefer walnut for the looks and feel of it but I have to admit that a good synthetic is more practical for a true working rifle.

I'll send you a PM about Lone Star Armory and walnut stock work.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

I have three 8x57's in 3 of there vertions 8x57 js mauser sporter 8x57 jr drilling and a 8x57jrs double rifle. I've used them a lot and taken whitetail , blacktail deer, hogs, caribou,and black bear. I have about as many 30-06's and a 150 grain bullet @ 2800 fps is just that. Dosn't matter weather it .308 or .323 or .318
I love em all

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
Bill,

Then you might be interested in this from the Woodleigh catalog:





I've got a couple of boxes of the 8mm 250 gr Woodleighs but I haven't tried working up a load yet for my 8x57.

-Bob F.

Bob, who sells these in the States?? Midway lists them, but has no stock and does not accept back orders...

- mike

I buy my Woodleighs at Midway. It's really not a big deal about them being out of stock at the moment. They'll get some more in. If you look on the product spec page at Midway it will show a link to a date they expect to get a shipment in. They also have a notification feature, via email, that will let you know when product has arrived and is in stock.

Huntington's also carries Woodleighs but their price is higher than Midway.
http://www.huntingtons.com/bullets_woodleigh.html

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by interboat:
The 8mm is clearly superior to the 30-06 that tried to copy it. At least in properly loaded ammo, not the wimpy American crap.

...well you'd be wrong, however, it sure beats the 308 Winchester to pieces. If you can say anything bad about the ol' -06, which ain't much BTW, was that it was ahead of its time. After the IMR powders (4064 & 4350) came along, there was no lookin' back for the -06 as it was ahead of the pack.
Now I'm not dissin' the ol' 7.9 either as it fought valiantly in an untold number of battles and lives to this day. It didn't die with the Nazis, and wimpy factory ammo didn't kill it, so I think it will be around for a long while yet.

Great Cartridge !. Not for Deer though !. I own K98 , M48 , they pound the shoulder . Military stock no pad in a tee shirt isn't my idea of a hunting weapon unless your going after Bigger things !.
I shoot Mule Deer with 7MM Rem mag 140 160 grain at ranges up to 450 yds. A .323 in 200 or 196 grain even , is to heavy ; excessive meat damage . Just an Opinion !...

GG375 ; Hey they still allow you to own things like that down under ?. I thought all the Greenies would have made you turn um in by now !.
I used to reside in Grafton and Toowoomba ,Timber concern business . I was planning on moving too Rockhampton permanently . That is until that nasty Gun business down there happened !. I couldn't bring my collection into the Country !. So that was that !. Aussie's still consider Fosters the word for Piss ?.

Have a Toohey's Old on me Mate , dam good stuff !. I miss that brew ...

First mule deer that I ever killed was with a VZ/24 with mil sights. ( I was in the service & couldn't afford to scope it yet ). We were just north of Yankee NM which is a bit east of Raton & it was snowing sidways. That 8MM knocked the snot out of that mulie where he stood!. He never knew what hit him.

buckshot -

Germany developed the 8x57JS Mauser cartridge in 1905 to fire a 154-grain spitzer bullet at 2800 fps. The U.S. immediately reacted by modifying their ’03 cartridge (which was copied from the original 8x57 and almost equaled those ballistics) to fire a 150-grain spitzer bullet at 2700 fps and called it, in 1906, the 30-06. As properly loaded, the 8mm fires a heavier bullet of larger caliber with greater frontal area at higher velocity than the 30-06. What part of superior do you not understand?

Well, I don't know if the 8x57 is superior to the .30-06. I guess it depends upon the criteria being judged. Here's the way I see it: The 8x57 will propel bullets of approximately equal sectional density at about the same velocity as the .308 Winchester. However, due to the slightly heavier bullet of the 8x57, the 8x57 will carry about the same energy down range as the .30-06.

An example using Hornady bullets.
Trajectories taken from the Hornady manual.



Just my two cents...
-Bob F.

Called the 8m/m Mauser, the 7.9X57 came about in 1888 for the German model 88 commission rifle, a modified Mannlicher type, not a Mauser design. It possessed a .318" bullet of 226 grains and launched said bullet at 2090f/s, whereas the 30-03 launched its 220 grain bullet at 2300f/s. Nothing superior about that.

As for post 1905 developments, the Army made changes to the 30-03 in 1906 to keep current with European developments, and did so again in 1926 as well as 1940. In this last revision ballistics were reduced to feed the gas and recoil operated weapons in use at that time. That doesn't make the .30 U.S. inferior to the 8X57, besides the attributes you list are a function of bore diameter, not superior design. And when both are loaded to their full potential, the -06 will always out perform the 8X57 with bullets possessing greater sectional density.

Tex21,

you have got to be kidding me, right? Breakfast without spuds would be like, like, like...breakfast with a bunch of kalifornians!

You are off the Christmas Card List.

Rich
DRSS

I have several 8 x 57s... I really like the rifles... and the round isn't bad either..

I don't really run it anywhere near its potential.. actually, I load it like it is a souped up 30/30...

I use the Speer 170 grain SMP, and the powder is SR 4759... with 5 grain increments from 15 grains of powder up to the top load of 35 grains...

The 15 and 20 grain loads are light kicking, yet with the Speer bullets, do a lot better job than some of the other starter rifle calibers out there...the 25 and 30 grain loads are in the medium recoil range, but are still potent loads at 200 to 250 yds... the 35 grain loads get it into the 2500 fps range or so...

I really enjoy playing with this caliber...and the military rifles chambered in them.. I have a Turk with the 29 inch barrel, a CZ with a 24 inch barrel that has a 1.5 x 4.5 Bushnell Shotgun scope on it, a sporterized CZ and a Sporterized Model 98...

The kids really love to go out and shoot the Turkish one, with the bayonet still on it!

I have no intention of giving up or trading off any one of them! I love em!

cheers
seafire