7mmRem has been popular for decades,
7x57 is loyally loved,
.284 win has like a cult following,

....so why did .270 WSM become more popular than 7mm WSM...?...

Well personally , I feel the rapture O'Connor created in people on behalf of the .277 bore,
flowed over to the advantage of the 270 WSM.

I am guessing 'more popular' is in the eye of the beholder. I have never personally met anyone that shoots either caliber.

I have met a few shooting the 300WSM and a couple of 300RUM shooters, but thats about it as far as that run of 'new' calibers about 15 years ago.

I have tried to get a .270 WSM to shoot. I have owned two of them. Neither of them would shoot under 1.5 MOA, no matter what I did. I'm a gunsmith and built long range rifles. I guarantee MOA and have never failed. Actually, the only WSM I've seen shoot MOA or better is the .416 WSM. (I have the reamer) You can hardly give a WSN away around here.......Tom

Historically 7mms haven't done that well on the American market. Oh, sure there's the Rem mag but besides that 7 mms tend to exist on life support. Enthusiasts don't keep cartridges alive and flourishing. That takes a lot of Joe Average Guys, and they tend to go with the common.

I think that the .270 WSM took off because it had a little more to offer than the 7WSM. The guy looking for a performance upgrade from his .270 Win could get it, and those that were thinking about a short action could scratch that itch. Some likely looked at it as a chance to get two birds stoned at once. The guy who is absolutely sold on using a short action could get a screamer. The .270 Weatherby was always there but that was always a limited high dollar market. Within the niche market it still out-sold the 7mm Weatherby.

I suppose that you might be able to sell a 7WSM to a .280 Rem guy as a short action option, but there aren't that many of them since Joe Average was already using a 7mm Rem. Joe Average hasn't even heard of a 7/08 so he isn't running out to upgrade that. If he was a little more performance oriented he was likely to be using the 7mm Rem and views the 7WSM as a step backwards.

The 300 WSM may not be the equal of the .300 Win, but it runs circles around that other short action 30, the .308. You might be able to get the 30-06 guy to take a look because he can get a two for one deal. Shorter and faster. Sometimes one worm on the hook isn't enough, but two pulls them over.

Just for fun, my .270 WSM is a Kimber Montana that I mostly bought because I got a good deal on it. I shoot it regularly out 650 yards and that little sawed off runty looking thing gives my .270 Weatherby a run for its money. 3400 fps with a 130 Ballistic Tip isn't exactly nothing. The only reason I aiming with the reticle post being out of subtension points on the B&C reticle. Works out to about 1 pound of rifle for every 100 yards.

To me, the 270 WSM is the only chambering that accomplished anything. The 300 WSM, 7 WSM and even the 325 WSM "almost" reached the ballistic equivalent of the 300 WM, 7 Rem Mag, and 338 Win Mag respectively in a short action round, but created feeding issues with their short, fat cases. The 270 WSM, however, was a significant performance boost over the 270 Win. One could say that the 270 Wby already filled that niche, but with expensive ammunition and almost proprietary availability in Weatherby rifles, it doesn't have a wide following among "regular" hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
Historically 7mms haven't done that well on the American market.

well realistically .270win is the only one to have done so well in that particular bore,
and the 7mmRem is just as popular....Midway actually lists more loadings for 7mmRem than .270win

7mm ammunition avail. on Midway:

7-30 w
7mm/08
7x57/.275 rigby
.284win
7x64
7x65r
280rem
280ai
7mm Rem
7mmSAUM
7mmWSM
7mmWBY
7mmSTW
7mm ULTRA

---
270win
270WSM
270WBY

clearly Americans do like having a 7mm in one form or another.

bUt you are likely right about dedicated ' .277 bore fans' being able to get a fast magnum version in WSM, without the premium cost of a WBY.

Because the 270 is just a magical caliber ...

...I also heard that any .270 cal rifle that O'Connor actually graced with his touch, was instilled with even more magic!...

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
Historically 7mms haven't done that well on the American market.

well realistically .270win is the only one to have done so well in that particular bore,
and the 7mmRem is just as popular....Midway actually lists more loadings for 7mmRem than .270win

7mm ammunition avail. on Midway:

7-30 w
7mm/08
7x57/.275 rigby
.284win
7x64
7x65r
280rem
280ai
7mm Rem
7mmSAUM
7mmWSM
7mmWBY
7mmSTW
7mm ULTRA

---
270win
270WSM
270WBY

clearly Americans do like having a 7mm in one form or another.

bUt you are likely right about dedicated ' .277 bore fans' being able to get a fast magnum version in WSM, without the premium cost of a WBY.

Its not a question of whether the 7mms exist, there's plenty of them. The point is for the most part they don't sell well and most of that list is as good as dead. Isn't that the point of the thread in the first place? On the American market the only surer way to make a cartridge flop than give it a metric caliber is to stamp Remington on the casehead.

quote:

Its not a question of whether the 7mms exist, there's plenty of them. The point is for the most part they don't sell well

7mm Rem alone does as well as the .270win

is that not good enough?

IF there were 14 available cartridges in .277 bore (like the 7mm) , you thing they would be good & better sellers?

I have shot 7mm Rem for several years, also a 7mm STW. My bunch are mainly Deer hunters with an annual Elk hunt in the mix. Three hunting grandsons and a son long with me, we do a lot of hunting. I never owned a .270 Win but always admired it and many of my buddies shot them. When Winchester made the .270 WSM I just could not resist buying one. I got the New Haven stainless with the composite stock. It shot great and when my grandsons shot it they all wanted to use it. I now have four total, all Model 70 Winchesters and they all shoot lights out. 130 grain North Fork at 3450 fps up to 160 grain Nosler Partition at 2950 fps, we use them for Deer and Elk and depend on then. We also shoot larger chamberings for Elk and larger game. That is the reason we shoot the .270 WSM for what it is worth. Good shooting.

Two things.

In the mind of the public the .270WSM performed markedly better than it's 270Win counterpart. The 7WSM did nothing better than the 7RM.

Americans don't embrace metric calibres willingly. This in why the .325WSM was not called what it truly is, an 8WSM. Obviously there are a few exceptions but as a rule metrics don't do well. Likely why Nosler choose .26 and .28 for their new chamberings.

Little to do with actual performance and pretty well everything to do with the perceptions of a finicky market place.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Its not a question of whether the 7mms exist, there's plenty of them. The point is for the most part they don't sell well

7mm Rem alone does as well as the .270win

is that not good enough?

IF there were 14 available cartridges in .277 bore (like the 7mm) , you thing they would be good & better sellers?

Good enough for what? To be a good 7mm cartridge? It is a good one. It being popular won't drag up the sales on the others. It likely does the opposite, it probably did a lot to kill off the old timers and isn't helping the new ones get any traction. Most people don't want a half a dozen 7 mms, and most people don't go out of their way to do something the hard way unless they can come up with a reason or two. There are some, sort of like the guy who insists on using a 16 gauge.

I think it hits a nice sweet spot.

- MPBR with a good 150 gr is a hair over 300 yds.
- 2500 fps at 300 for extra reliable tsx opening and close to hydrostatic shock velocity.
- 2000 ft lbs energy at 300, which some say is a good minimum at impact on elk or moose.
- It fills a void by providing both a short action commercial 270 and a magnum 270 that doesn't break the bank with factory loads.

You mean why is the 7mm less un-popular? All 4 of the WSMs are the only brass that were available all through the worst of the shortage. I know more people that shoot the WSSMs than WSMs (4 is more than 3). The only thing WSM cases are really good for is necking to .264...one persons opinion.

I think the further west you look the more popular they are....for fairly obvious reasons but the resurgence in interest in the 6.5 is certainly taking some of the spotlight off them.

I got my 270 WSM because I liked the rifle--would have bought it in 270 win, 264 WM or 260 Rem.

A custom shop M-70 Featherweight with a grey laminated stock

Factory loads are shooting around and inch+/- when I burn enough of them to have brass will start reloading and see what it can really do.

The nosler 140 accubonds are shooting nice, picked up a bunch on sale.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:


Good enough for what? To be a good 7mm cartridge? It is a good one. It being popular won't drag up the sales on the others.
It likely does the opposite, it probably did a lot to kill off the old timers and isn't helping the new ones get any traction.

SO we can reason that;
the 7mmWSM didn't gain the traction 270 WSM did,
cause the 7mmRem was already the popular affordable 7MM mag.
then the major reason one might go for 7mmWSM is of you really WANTED a short action 7mm mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:


Good enough for what? To be a good 7mm cartridge? It is a good one. It being popular won't drag up the sales on the others.
It likely does the opposite, it probably did a lot to kill off the old timers and isn't helping the new ones get any traction.

SO we can reason that;
the 7mmWSM didn't gain the traction 270 WSM did,
cause the 7mmRem was already the popular affordable 7MM mag.
then the major reason one might go for 7mmWSM is of you really WANTED a short action 7mm mag.

And apparently that wasn't enough reason for many people to buy it. I know I never bought one, did you? I did get a 270 WSM despite having a couple 270 Wins and a Weatherby. It was partly because I liked the rifle, and partly because I had a pile of .277 bullets on hand.

I had a lightweight syn.270WBY already, two 270wins and 7x57,... so no desperate need for either the new ralaese 270wsm or 7mm-wsm.

Orig. got the 270WBY because of good price, but would still have bought it if it was 7mmWBY

But of course, had the WSMs been avail. at the time (1982) I might well have purchased one instead of a WBY.

Seems to me that since you had a chance and didn't buy either the market failure is your fault. Maybe Winchester can rename it the 7 mm Short Express or the .280 WSM and sell enough to keep it alive? Would you buy one then?

We've got a whole stable of WSM's in the family and I reload them all.
6, 6.5, 277, 7, 308, and 8. (obviously some are wildcats)

Are they "better" than anything else? NO

Are they "cool" and shoot like a champ and kill like the hammer of Thor? YES

Sheephunterrab hit the nail on the head, Western hunter take a liking to them because they come in a slightly shorter package and perform well on game.

If you don't know someone who shoots one, you run in a pretty small circle.

Anyone who says they don't shoot accurately is full of beans or cannot squeeze the trigger!

There, I feel better.
Zeke

I like this one but prefer the .264WM. It seems to shoot a bit flatter and is not too finicky on loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
Seems to me that since you had a chance and didn't buy either the market failure is your fault....

Im more inclined to say Win. waited too long to develop & release its WSMs
causing me to buy something else like a well priced WBY and SAKOs
I would have even settled for a factory .284win M70, but Win. didn't bother to offer that either.
I only bought the M70 fw7x57 cause it sat rejected on the shelf for so darn friKn'long I felt sorry for it

You're taking the whole 7WSM not selling thing awfully personal for a guy that doesn't have one and doesn't want one.

The .270 and Winchester name are inextricably linked since the twenties. Why walk away from that kind of success?

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
You're taking the whole 7WSM not selling thing awfully personal for a guy that doesn't have one

personal,..really?

I just asked AR peoples views on 7mmWSM vs the 270WSM.

I don't effect me whether someone owns one, or the other, or neither!,... its just a forum discussion.

but keep on foolishly assuming all you like.

quote:

... and doesn't want one.

There plenty things a person might want in life, but sometimes ones plate is full enough,
so a 270WSM or 7mmWSM may not be a priority or 'must have', ...but certainly a possibility in the future.

quote:

The .270 and Winchester name are inextricably linked since the twenties. Why walk away from that kind of success?

Well the Johnny come lately 1962 7mmRem sells as well as the .270win, so it seems many people have been
rather content to leave the .270win for something else.....clearly there is room enough for both of them to thrive.

I'll open up my thoughts

I have a .270 WSM

I like it ok but cary my .270 Win more often

As far as a cartridge in the 7 range that intrigues me at this time it's the Nos28

If it will fit on a standard Rem long action bolt face after a open up job I might forget about the 280AI

I don't think the question is whether the 7mm rem sells. Hell the 7rem is probably the biggest reason why the 7WSM doesn't. The market decided that there was room for another 270 and not another 7mm.