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I have shot and seen too many elk and Bison and even a few Cape Buffalo shot with 45-70, 45-90 and big black powder 50s to ever consider using one on game anymore. That is the biggest misconception in todays hunting world...I learned it the hard way as will those who toast them.

These guns wound more game than they kill, people just don't tell anyone about that, only the one shot kills that happen now and then..

Last year I saw two nice bulls take multiple hits with a 45-70 in the shoulder and they traveled one hell of a long ways and left no blood trail...I have those hits and walk offs on film. Hot loaded Noslers, and the bullets expanded and went to the off side skin, performance was good, but they didn't die.

This year I tracked a Bison hit twice with a 50 shooting 500 plus grain bullets at 1800 FPS (a soft and a solid) in the heart lung area for a half to 3/4s of a mile in a snow storm and very little blood, the snow was covering it and we were having to sweep the snow to find blood droplets and we found the animal dead but that tracking job took 3 or 4 hours I suspect, and we damn near froze to death....This also was filmed...

That is 3 experiences in a row and they about match the rest of such experiences that I have witnessed. I also used a 1886 45-90 for a time until it left me cold...

I also can guarentee what you see on the outdoor channal is not always the way a kill went down. I know one thats coming up that not the way it went down.

That last Bison was the last straw, I am a confirmed non believer in any big game rifle that cannot shoot a bullet at 2150, which my minimum...

I won't argue my opinnion here, as I have stated what I believe, if you wish to risk an expensive hunt on one of these old calibers, then you have been forewarned and I wish you all the success in the world, as I hate to see game get lost..

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Ray,

1. How would you rate a .458", 400-grain Barnes Original at a MV of 2270 FPS for a short-range (up to 150 yards) elk load?

2. Why are these old low-velocity .45 and .50 cal. rifles so poor? Is it just because of the low velocity, like a shotgun slug?

I assume then that such rounds as the .450 and the .50 Alaskan would be equally poor? If so, they would not be adequate for bear protection on the salmon streams....

Thanks