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As I get older the less I am liking recoil and carrying 10 1/2 lb rifles. I will still shoot the Big guns for Africa , but wanting a all around cartridge that can handle the largest plains game and largest North American game with the least amount of recoil . My question is : What cartridge/round do you like for low recoil , but you still can count on it for anchoring a large plains game animal or animals like north American moose & elk, along with making that occasional cross canyon 400-500yd shot at a mule deer? The rifle needs to be at no more than 8 1/2 lbs , scoped. My answer use to be a Dakota .340 Weatherby @ 10 1/2 lbs but the recoil and weight are having me look for a lighter rifle and less recoil. I have experience with the lighter kicking .270 and .257Wea but I find them on the low end for all around possibilities. My .264Win has only been used on pronghorns , I would put it in the same class as the .270 for shooting a moose, not my first choice. I have used the 7mm Rem Mag and with the right 160-175 gr bullets it’s a possibility.I have a custom short throat .300 Wea synthetic that is my go to gun for bad weather and it’s a killer but this new gun is to be wood stocked. My .300Wea kicks a little more than I want. The .300 mags are probably on the high side of recoil part of this equation. My choice today would be a 8 1/2lb scoped .300H&H What have been your choices? or What would you choose? | ||
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The 260 rem or 6.5 creedmore hardly kick .My savage model 11 weighs 7.5 pounds with a 4×12 Nikon on it .We have shot deer hogs and coyote with it .I let every kid and woman I know shoot it they love it .This rifke with 155 gr lapula bullets coukd take elk to 300 yards easy 6.Its an awesome easy shooting gun .There are tons of good bulkets for it .I am in the same boat after 33 years with the 338 win mag it's hard to tote and kicks way too much to be fun ! | |||
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30-06. Took one to Namibia with me. Did a FANTASTIC job on everything from Steenbok to Eland. I've only used it in North America for whitetail as my Ruger 270 Win is my main rifle, taking it on a late season cow elk hunt next month in Wyoming. I would have no problem hunting anything in North America or most game animals of the world with a 30-06 and an appropriate bullet for the game I'm after. | |||
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.264WM. A number of Aussies have used it to kill water buffalo with premium projectiles. Will also shoot flat so you dont have to walk as far. People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf. | |||
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.30-06.  Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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My pick would have been a 270 Wby until I got to the part where you eliminated it. You said the 300 Wby is a but much recoil then the 300 Winchester is the go. It kicks and bangs quite a lot less than the 300 Winchester. I factory ammo for both performance and availability is not a factor then the 300 H&H is sure nice. In fact if I able to get an absolutely top end gun made then the 300 H&H would be right at the top of my calibres choices. However, throwing practicality into the equation which also includes rifle availability the 300 Winchester is very hard to beat. In very accurate rifles and loaded to the point just below where accuracy falls of it is about 100 f/s to 120 f/s slower than the 300 Wby. | |||
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308 win and above it you reload for it. | |||
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| One of Us |
I can not imagine a better choice than the 30-06 or if you reload the 308. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Reading what you wrote sir, and from where in rifle you came; 30-06 and Barnes TSX at 2800 FPS. 400 yard no problem. Tested and approved. My move down was to the Ruger 24” 260 Remington and a 140 Nosler. I have not shot an elk with it yet but my son has. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Take a look at a Steyr Scout Rifle in .308. Light in weight and recoil. Pleasure to carry, excellent trigger. Word is most shoot MOA out of the box, mine does. Mine is fitted with a Leupold 2X7 (not long eye relief). With premium bullets it will do everything you ask. If the Non-Traditional Scout is not of your liking if you can find a Mannlicher Schoenauer in 30-06 you might like it. Not apt to be a 1 MOA rifle but certainly will be Minute of Eland. On my one trip to Africa with two friends a 30-06 and a 7 Mag took 17 head of Plains Game including 2 Eland, 3 Zebra, 3 Kudu, 3 Gemsbok,2 Warthogs,1 Hartebeest, 2 Wildebeest, 1 Springbok. One Gemsbok and a Wildebeest had to be tracked, because of poor bullet placement but both were recovered. "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain | |||
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280AI would be my pick, with a 30-06 being a close second and 7mm Rem Mag a trailing third. The latter two if availability of factory ammo was a concern. I "bang flopped" an elk with my 280AI at 400 yards with a 160 Nosler AB bullet last season. It dropped so quickly I could hardly believe it. John in Oregon | |||
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I was in Namibia in June and used the guide's ancient Musgrave .270 on everything, including one-shot kills on wildebeest and kudu. My hunting partner was using the guide's other .270, a Howa. He took multiple Hartman's zebras, each with a single shot, as well as gemsbok. We never felt undergunned, and some of the shots were long. The .270 has always "punched above its weight". I own nearly identical rifles in both .264 and .270 and don't find any real world difference in their range or power -- just in their muzzle blast. As a one-gun hunter, you can't beat a .30-06, but if light weight and lower recoil is important, then the .270 is the ticket. Some obscure outdoor writer by the name of Jack O'connor seemed to think that same thing, but then I doubt he had all that much experience. | |||
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my first choice would have been a 7x57(customized mauser 98), but i gave it to my oldest boy. now it is a ruger #1 in 270 win. “All that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed — only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle.” ― Nikola Tesla | |||
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I would choose a 7x64 for that job, just like a great number of hunters in Europe. An alternate choice just as effective and more common jn North America would be a .308. Of course the .30-06 would do the same job but I prefer the two above. | |||
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I'd broaden it and say many of the 06 based cartridges. A 32 or 338-06 is great as is the 35 or 30-06. No flies on the 6.5 or 7-06. I like my 30-06 and see no reason to " have to have" a different North American rifle. | |||
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For me, it would be the 300WSM, 325 WSM, 6.5PRC or the 300PRC. With the 300WSM I've literally killed everything from giraffe on down in Africa. For transparency, the giraffe was shot at the base of the head in the neck and dropped in its tracks. The 325WSM has taken it's share of plains game very effectively as well, along with grizzly bear. It's the hammer of Thor on large plains game, and was on the grizz also. I have Swarovski Z-5 Scopes on all of these rifles. I am impressed with the 6.5 and 300 PRCs and hope to take them out in the future. | |||
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7x57,270,280 take your pick. Light recoil, kills them all dead. DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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7x57 or 7x64. | |||
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I would pick one of my .270 WSM’s or my 6.5 PRC. Good Shooting. phurley | |||
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Pretty much anything with the case capacity of an 06. 280 Rem has an outstanding balance between mild recoil and punch IMO. 8X57 too. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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| One of Us |
With the superior ammo available today, the venerable 270 Win should be more than adequate for all but the biggest black bears, the brown bears, and the polar bear. African plains game is no more bullet resistant than a moose or bison. There really is no practical need to go to any of the medium bore Magnums for 98% of NA hunting. Buy a featherweight M70 Win in 270 Win and top it with a nice 2-7 or 3-9 scope and you should have a low recoil/lightweight hunting rifle that is a joy to shoot and a joy to carry. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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If you want light weight out of the box I'd suggest a Rem XCR II in 7mm Mag. Our 375 H&H weighed 7 lbs even without sling, scope or ammo. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I remember reading umpteen years ago that Jack O'Connor said a friend of his with the 270 and 150 grain Partitions killed 8 lions with 9 shots. | |||
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I have killed the following with a 308; 3 gemsbok, 1 kudu, 1 zebra, 1 blesbok, 1 red hartebeest, 1 baboon, several wildboar, 2 pronghorn antelope and a mountain of kangaroos and feral goats all with one shot kills. I have never owned a 280, but I have owned a couple 7x64 and killed a slug of stuff with it. The 7x64 kicks about like a 30-06. I don't feel the 308 kicks as hard. The 7mm-08 is just lovely, I have a killed a slug of kangaroos and feral goats with that one too. | |||
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At least in my mind, I have decided on cartridges for somewhat similar criteria. My range limitation was 300, though the cartridges would be good for more. Of course being a rifle fan, I am choosing 3ea with sufficient overlap of capabilities. A trio of WSM's, 325, 300, and 7mm. I have rifles in these, but not identical, yet. Practically speaking the 325 and 300 would be ample, and still provide a little change of pace. Hell the 300 WSM would be my one rifle practical solution. But, I actually have more interest in the 7 & 8mm versions, the 8mm being my favorite. My near identical 338 Win and 7mm Rem were my prior choices. I still think they are valid choices for me. The .308 calibers have never given me intense interest. But that is a Dodge/Ford/Chevy/GMC thing for me. They definitely work well. I think your 300 H&H is and excellent choice. For myself, I would go for the 3OO WSM. If that recoil was an issue, it would a 30-06.
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Well, A 30-06 is a whole lot easier on the shoulder than any 340 weatherby even in a lighter rifle and it's capabilities have long been proven. | |||
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I'd say .30-06. For lighter recoil, try lighter bullets. Also, keep in mind stock fit is crucial in reducing perceived recoil; and a good recoil pad does wonders. With the .30-06 the biggest I have taken is Eland @ a lasered 195 yards - with tough, premium bullets it'll take anything. For lighter recoil yet, the .270 Win or .280 Rem sound good to me. Never shot a .270 but I have a 7x64 and it is lighter in recoil than the .30-06, absurd as it sounds. Probably hard to go below the .308 with your spec.... Granted, the 6,5x55 for example has taken everything but to be on the safe side I'd bet on the .30-06. Even in rather a light rifle like the Winchester Featherweight it is bearable esp. if you fit a good recoil pad (and honest: Get a stock that fits you!). - Lars/Finland A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot | |||
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| one of us |
7mm-08. Really a 6.5 CM, 270 Win, 280 Rem, 308, or 30-06 would all work as well but for the sake of balance and low recoil I’d pick the 7mm-08. Your 500 yard Mule deer... you would be a little better off downrange velocity wise with a 7mm-08 than a 308. Want a long action, get a 280 or 270. If you’re a handloader the 280 is pretty slick. I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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another for this. | |||
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| One of Us |
Lots of experience on this board. Thanks I was thinking I would like a light 7X57 but I occasionally shoot 500 yds across canyons at mule deer. I already have a 7mm/08 and like that round a lot For whitetails but find it light for my all around needs. A .270 Weatherby has always peeked my interest but again I think it’s too close to my .264 which I feel is too light for trophy moose/elk/eland hunting. The 30.06 is obviously a solid choice. I like at least 175- 180gr bullets and the option to shoot 200 grains is attractive. The old H&H round still seems like a great choice and I do have a Mag action available. What scope(s) do you like for a all around rifle that has long range capabilities that fits most actions without custom scope mounting? I am leaning towards a SB 1.5-6X42mm, but again would like a little more magnification on the top end. | |||
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Well, a long time hunting partner of mine was and still is to a certain extent extremely recoil shy. A too light 300 Win Mag a few years ago gave him the flinch from hell that took years to shake off. The solution was a 7mm08 that tips the scale at 9.5 pounds, also a good muzzle break and for a while reduced loads. Did it work? Well a couple of years back he dropped two cow elk at just shy of 450 yards with one shot each using 140gr Accubonds at 2650 muzzle velocity. We've got him shooting loads at 2900 now. Never, ever discount proper shot placement. Personally, a love my 270. Ruger No.1A at just under 8 pounds. 130ge Accubonds have blown through several elk broadside at out to 250 yards. The key to lighter rounds success? #1 SHOT PLACEMENT. #2 REALLY GOOD BULLETS. | |||
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I will throw in for the 7x57 with the 6.5x55 a close second. With heavy for caliber bullets at modest ranges those two clobber a lot of game while being sweet on the shoulder. However, I think the 06 is bad ju ju on critters from mice to moose. | |||
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Unless you ned a 5 round magazine the 300 H&H and 300 Winchester will load back to top 30/06 ballistics with ease with powders like Varget. Alternatively backed off loads with 4350 will do top 30/06 ballistics and very low pressure, Case life will be just this side of forever. | |||
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I have various 1.5x6x42mm's. I like them I lot, but I am not shooting long range. When Zeiss and Kahles quit importing the 1st Focal Plane reticle 1.5-6x42's, I tried a S&B 1.5-8x42. Very close to the same size, slightly heavier. Anyways, I really like these scope with #4 1st Focal plane reticle. I don't care for the illumination control and have had 2 converted to rotary dial control as is on the Zenith line. With the rotary illumination dial, this is a favorite all-around scope.
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7mm-08 with 140 TSXs Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I just put together a 7mm Dakota and it’s shooting a 165 Sierra TGK over 3200 in a 26” #4 fluted. I think that would fit your criteria. This one has a small Vias brake on it and recoil isn’t bad. Shoot straight, shoot often. Matt | |||
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To me, you are all over the place... You need to make some compromises. A .340 WBY is adequate performance, but a .270 is too light... A 10.5# .340 is too much recoil, as is a .300 WBY. You want a lighter rifle, but insist it should be wood stocked...yet light recoiling. If the rifle is equally well fitted to you, the light one will magnify recoil. One of my lighter rifles is a old full stocked 1903 Springfield .30-06 sporter. It's light, short, reasonably accurate, but recoils more than a win M70 .300 Win mag I have. I also have a Steyr Scout .308. Light, compact, very accurate, but unless you pick a modest round, it does whack you when you shoot with a 180 grain hunting load. It is worse than the .30-06 due to fit issues as far as recoil. As far as I go, if you want a reliable rifle to stop big plains game right there, from any direction, aka anchoring, you are talking 9.3 or .375 when you talk eland. A .270 or .30-06 will kill an eland, especially with a reasonable shot selection, but its not an anchoring gun for them. Same logic with big bears, or stopping a moose from dying in the middle of the nearest water hole... A sub 8 pound .375 is going to whack you. Period. For a nice to carry, light gun, with reasonable power, I would agree with the .30-06. Its not that great as a cross canyon rifle, but its both lighter and less recoiling than a magnum. If you really want a light gun that hits hard, with a bit more flat trajectory, get a NULA in something like a 325 WSM with a brake or threaded for a surpressor where legal, but that won't be wood stocked. It will still recoil more than the -06, but not be obnoxious. Personally, from what you are saying, I'd get a nice older custom .30-06 or .270 from a not so well known maker as a used gun. you should find one that is in the 8# range, which will feel light compared to the 10.5# dakota .340, and it will be pretty. The choice of chambering to me would be more based on what you think you will do more of- cross canyon shots or hunt bigger animals. Bigger stuff, -06, long shots, .270. I've been rather surprised on the few times I've hauled an -06 over to Africa just how well it works; and O'Connor shot all kinds of plains game with his .270, as well as pretty much everything in the Americas with a .270. | |||
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For nostalia I would go with a real classic Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 24 inch barrel sporter in 6.5X54MS. That will handle anything in the plains game category our to 200 meters. For Impala sized game it would do 300 meters. WD Bell shot many many elephants with that round. Out to 400 meters you can do it with a 7mm08 or a long throated 7X57 shooting 150 gr TTSX. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Only too much recoil on the range. Once sighted in why worry. Even a wood rifle which you desire if glass bedded and free located you should not have much issue with any stock warpage affecting your accuracy. If I had one gun to hunt the world it would be a 340 Wea. in an accumark with a VX6 Leopold 2X12X42. One well placed shot: game over. As is with most calibers. If lighter then my Kimber 89 lightweight in a 30-06 with a 3.5X10 VX3I Leopold. I have available to shoot just about anything I want. Modern day. EZ | |||
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A 2.5x8 Leupold is tough to beat. It doesn't weigh much, gathers decent light and is usable at all the ranges you've mentioned. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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