Anybody who doubts that the venerable 8x57 IS was in past also factory loaded to +P+ levels, should have witnessed me shooting my Turkish 1954 ATF Mauser long rifle with five DWM factory loaded cartridges from the 1960s. This was the no. 8035 load with the 12,8 grams Brenneke TIG bullet. The factory ballistic tables give a muzzle velocity of 833 m/s = 2733 (!) fps from a 650 mm test barrel.

Well, I fired it, and I guess the tables from 1971 were indeed true. The gun had a significant recoil, a very loud report, and the muzzle of the long rifle really jumped. Accuracy was only so-so, but performance was definitely at least on full 8x60 S level, almost like the "Magnum-Bombe" of yore. The fancy comparison seems in place, because "normal" DWM and older RWS 8x60 S data with a comparable weight SPRN bullet give velocities below this formidable 8x57 IS.

Regards,
Carcano

quote:

12,8 grams Brenneke TIG bullet. The factory ballistic tables give a muzzle velocity of 833 m/s = 2733 (!) fps from a 650 mm test barrel.Carcano

roger

We recently purchased an 8x57 Mauser sporter for my wife's use. Short length of pull, under seven pounds and very respectable iron sights (she doesn't like scopes).
There are no makers markings or caliber designation and the serial number is three digits stamped on both barrel and action. The only markings are a crown over N and the stamping for 2,85 gr BP over St.m.G of the front ring of the small ring receiver.

It apparently came from Sweden and has seen some time in the field.

Is this the type of ammo that would have been used in this little gun? I've been curious as to how effective "St.m.G" was as a hunting load.

Dear Rick:
The proof marking practice was not always consistent. Most times, it designated the proof load as such, but occasionally also the normal load.

In your case, the markings mean that the gun was proofed with 2.85 grams of nitro rifle flake powder behind the maximum use weight of a steel jacketed bullet.

Carcano

Carcano,
Do you know what was the "normal" hunting load for 8x57 in the 1930's?

And what do most European hunters use in modern times?

RWS and Seller and Bellot make full house 8x57 ammo. But they are the end of it.

Dear Rick:

The first thing you will have to find out is for which cartridge this sporter was chambered, for the 8x57 I or 8x57 IS (rarer ones are possible, but rather unlikely). Many older German "8 mm" hunting rifles were chambered for the civilian "I" version with its slimmer bullet.

As to your two specific questions:

1. Many different loads were offered in the Interwar years. The first edition of the RWS handbook from 1934 is quite helpful. Usual bullet weights at that time were 10,0 grams, 12,7 grams and 14,7 grams.

2. Almost everybody makes modern 8x57 IS hunting loads (Blaser-CDP, Hirtenberger, Igman, Norma, Prvi Partizan, RWS/Geco, Sako, Sellier & Bellot). In contrast, 8 x 57 I is only factory loaded by RWS and by Sellier & Bellot, and the bullet choice is much smaller.

Regards, Carcano

The American loaded 8x57 is pretty anemic, doesn't beat or meet 308 in most cases.

Carcano,
Thanks for the info, I was curious as to what loads hunters of old carried. Wonder if they had discussions about bullets and loads like we have now?

D99,
You're being generous, the US loading is more like .30-30 class. The reloading manual starting load for 170gr bullets pretty much equals the Remington 8x57 load.

My wife will be target shooting with the Remington 185gr bulk bullet pushed by 47.0gr Varget and hunting with the 200gr Nosler Accubond with the same loading as both seem to hit point of aim with the sights as they were originaly set up. Call it around 2,500fps, and a bit more "bark" than the surplus 8x57 ammo with the Cyrillic markings I bought at a gun show many moons ago.

quote:

Originally posted by carcano91:
Anybody who doubts that the venerable 8x57 IS

...only purchases U.S. ammunition.

Serious hand loaders know there are no flies on the 8X57m/m.

Handloaded the 8x57 is Europes version of the 30-06 and they are equal..In factory ammo its basically a 30-30 and that ain't all that bad IMO...

what velocities can you expect from 24" barreled modern rifle, shooting 200gr bullets?

With handloads 2550+ should be easy, Nosler manual #3 gives a top load of 2700fps with IMR4350, IMR4064 gets 2640fps & H380 gets 2560 fps. Everyones favourite RL15 or RL19 should be able to manage something in this area I'd imagine. Steffen, in your case we're talking N203 & N204.
Steve

While a bit straying from the topic, today's range session offered another DWM experience:

I shot five DWM 8 x 57 I rounds (the 12,7 grams RNSP) from my Turkish Model 88/05 short rifle (musketoon). Date code was H - H. According to the DWM ballistic tables, the cartridge was suppposed to achieve 729 m/s from a 68 cm test barrel, so it kicked quite a bit from the short 21" musketoon.

Accuracy was okay. Not truly stellar (hey, the barrel is 107 years old!), but not bad either.

Carcano