Hello, looks like I might want to build another rifle and I'm thinking of a light-weight all-arounder for deer, pigs, maybe a sheep (if I ever draw) or occassional black bear.

I'd do a 24" barrel for both. Synthetic stock, Model 70s.

Both will do the job- which would you choose and why?

I'd go with the 7x57. Not that one will outdo the other, I just think the 7x57 would be vastly superior in the kewl dept.

I too am partial to the 7x57 But if you are at all dependent on commercial ammo than the .270 is the way to go. If not flip a coin or do one of each. roger

quote:

But if you are at all dependent on commercial ammo than the .270 is the way to go.

That seems to be getting to be all too common with some really good cartridges.

If you want to shoot long, heavy bullets, like Barnes TSX, I would suggest going with the 7x57. I believe the rate of twist used by Winchester for their 7x57 barrels is approximately 1 in 8.5". A Winchester 270, with a barrel having a 1 in 10" twist, would be the better for shooting lighter .277 bullets, i.e. up to 140gr.

If it were my choice to make for long shots I would choose the 7x57 and use bullets from 160gr to 175gr.

yes



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
If it were my choice to make for long shots I would choose the 7x57 and use bullets from 160gr to 175gr.

Interesting...but what do you have in mind?

friar

Historically the M70 and 270 Winchester go hand and glove. If you don't already own a M70 then a new M70 Extreme Weather Stainless which comes with the Bell & Carlson synthetic stock with its aluminum bedding block would be a good choice.

If you already own a M70 and are going to rebarrel it, why not go with the 280 AI which is commercially loaded by Nosler. This affords the use of the heavier 7mm bullets as well as the use of lighter weigh/BC bullets that made the 270's name at longer range for smaller game. Basicaly the best of both worlds...

Now for the unexpected option...that being the 270 WSM chambered in the M70 Extreme Weather Stainless rifle; again with the Bell & Carlson synthetic stock with its aluminum bedding block. It'll give a shorter (uses the shorter WSM action) and slightly lighter weight rifle that will be easier to tote on a sheep hunt while still meeting or exceeding your other requirements.

7x57 with good 160gn bullets at 2700fps - nuff said.

I bought my first 7x57 Mauser a couple of years ago not understanding or appreciating the versatility of the cartridge. Even now I am consistently amazed at the capability of the caliber.

If it ain't blue and wood, it ain't a real rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
If it were my choice to make for long shots I would choose the 7x57 and use bullets from 160gr to 175gr.

Interesting...but what do you have in mind?

friar

As I understood it the question was about which caliber. He already stated he preferred Model 70s so I made no recommendation about the rifle.

270,

And I have never had problems getting 150's to shot out of my 1:10 twist barrels.

130-grain .277" vs .140-grain .284"... 150-grain .277" vs 162-grain .284". Just not a whole lot of difference looking at it that way...

Now: if you take up the idea that the 7 X 57 is loaded to be pretty anemic by the commercial manufacturers, the story takes a decided turn... but handloaded to roughly the same pressures in modern firearms I think you are comparing an apple to an apple.

But then again, my .270 runs 130s at a clocked 3150, and I dare say you won't get that out of most 140-grain bullets shot from the average 7 X 57.

Grendier, yes, but I was wondering why you prefer the heavier 7mm bullet (at Mauser speeds - say 2600 fps muzzle velocity?) at long range, as opposed to a 140 or 150 gr. .270 slug closer to 3000?

Maybe there isn't that much difference in trajectory inside of 3 or 400 yards?

friar

Heavy bullets in either 270 or 7mm will do about the same at long range. But Winchester's standard M70 rates of twist favor the lighter bullets in 270 and the heavier bullets in 7x57. Again, I was considering that the OP was choosing between two model 70s.

Ahh - I see what you mean!

Thanks!

friar

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Historically the M70 and 270 Winchester go hand and glove.

Good point. There is something to be said about matching actions and cartridges. Synergy is not the right word, perhaps tradition? I would vote for 270 in an M70. (leave the metric cartridges for the Mausers.)

The coolest of the cool is the 7x57...but only with them 175gr. Hornady RN's!

I just clocked an honest 2,600 fps with that bullet this weekend. And about MOA accuracy. I think that's going to do just fine...

I'd opt for the 7x57, I don't have a .270 anymore and owned 5 at one time. For small animals exits have for the most part left quite abit of "rendered" meat. I'd go 160 too with the 7x57 for your intent. I load 175 Partitions for everything in mine here in the Brooks.

I am a fan of both rounds.
But for a synthetic stocked model 70 i would go .270.
If you were using a mauser action I would go wood and 7x57...tj3006

I have both they both kill well.

I would get rid of both before any 06 that I have.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Heavy bullets in either 270 or 7mm will do about the same at long range. But Winchester's standard M70 rates of twist favor the lighter bullets in 270 and the heavier bullets in 7x57. Again, I was considering that the OP was choosing between two model 70s.

I'm not sure I get your drift. I have a Winchester M70 XTR in .270 and a Winchester M70 Featherweight in 7x57 mauser. Tat .270 will do just a hair under MOA with 160 gr. Nosler partitions and the 7x57 does between .50 and .75" with the Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tips.
The M70 is very accurate with 130 gr. bullets but I prefer the 150 gr, bullets most of the time. I'm relatively new to the 7x57 so onlu 120 and 140 gr. Ballistic Tips and some work with the long discontinued Sierra 170 gr. ans Hornady 175 gr. round nose bullets have run through that M70. Acuuracy with all the bullets tried have been at MOA or less, mostly less.
I have to go along with the 7x57 having a cool factor but only with handloads. Most factory ammo is rather anemic.
I haven't gotten around to loading them yet but I got a smokin' deal on 6 boxed of 150 gr. Nosler Partitions for $10 a box at a gun show. Methinks at least one of my three 7x57 rifles will like them. The Rugre #1 A has sbeen around for a while but had to go back to Ruger due to a bad barrel. It's fixed now so I'll be playing with it as well as the M70. My mauser custom is a bit of a problem. It has a tight match grade chamber and barrel and ammo that is just fine in the M70 and #1 will lock up the bolt on the Mauser. A 175 gr. Hornady loaded to duplicate the original 7x57 spec shot almost 100 FPS faster in the mauser than when shot from the M70 or Ruger.
Someone said they got the 175 gr. Hornady up to 2600 FPS. I'd sure like to learn what he used.
Personally, you can't really go wrong with either cartridge. The .270 is probably more practical but the 7x57 jus seem to have panache.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
The coolest of the cool is the 7x57...but only with them 175gr. Hornady RN's!

I just clocked an honest 2,600 fps with that bullet this weekend. And about MOA accuracy. I think that's going to do just fine...

How about sharing your recipe?

JDG

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
I have a Winchester M70 XTR in .270 and a Winchester M70 Featherweight in 7x57 mauser.

What are the rates of twist in your two rifles?

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
The coolest of the cool is the 7x57...but only with them 175gr. Hornady RN's!

I just clocked an honest 2,600 fps with that bullet this weekend. And about MOA accuracy. I think that's going to do just fine...

How about sharing your recipe?

JDG

Sure.

Ruger #1a 7x57 Mauser. Black recoil pad (aka more current production)
22" bbl

From Alliant Powder "reloading manual"
175 gr Hornady RN
51.0 gr of RL 22
CCI large rifle (non-mag primer)
Oal: seated to the base of the cannelure...don't ask...I didn't measure it.

Side note: the latest edition of Horn 175 gr at Midway has the canelure pressed slightly shorter than oem non-blems. Which is fine since I'm loading a #1 to max oal anyway and this is no big deal.

I got excellent 1-2 accuracy at about 3/4" moa. Third shot opened it up but it was due to the warm barrel. I'd call it 1.25" accuracy.

Velocity was 2592, 2612, 2599, 2602, 2612

Pressure signs: barely marked primers (ie: the slightest hint of flattening...but that's barely noticeable). Alliant calls this a compressed load, I'm barely compressing. I bet tapping the cases down to settle the powder is all it would take to get it non-compressed.



I also shot some 175 mag tips: accuracy was superb with 51.0 of rl22 but there was definite pressure sign. Cratering and flattened primers.

The bummer here is that the rifle LOVED the load and printed 3 shots into 3/4" moa in three separate groups. Meh...need to find a new bullet since I'm out of magtips...and they are discontinued. Of course.

Peace!

quote:

Historically the M70 and 270 Winchester go hand and glove.

Historically, Winchester made a factory bolt action 7x57[M54] before they made the more famous pre64 M70 .270win
....Win also sold the 7x57 pre64 M70.

I move with the times, so depending how lightweight a rig one really wants to go;

Lighter..... Id get a SaM70-7mm08, 21-22"
slightly heavier... LaM70.270win/280rem, 23-24"


This is a pre64 7x57 Douglas #2 cut to 22". at about 8lb.

IF LW was important to someone, then a trimmer barrel,Edge Stock,alloy BM, Talley LW rings,straight 6x36 leupold,.. could bring weight to maybe 7lb.

Personally[for 7x57 or 270win]... a #1 tube cut to 22" and Edge stock - would be about as light as I would go.

The 7x57 is a great calibre, but I would pick a 270 between the two. In the USA you can find 270 ammo in a lot more places...

But in truth I would much prefer the 308 or the 30/06 over them, by a WIDE margin...

RNOVI,
My hat is off to you and your rifle.
I shoot that exact same load but with 150 gr. bullets and the velocities you quoted is ALL my 7X57 will muster with 150 grainers.
I can get slightly better velocity with RL-19 or 4350s but absolutely no consistant accuracy.
I love a 7mm Mauser as much as anyone, and I can see myself liking it even more the older I get but..
There is no way a 7X57 is equal to or better than a 270 Win. as far as energy or trajectory. Just shoot one of each in rifles of comparable weight and bullet weights. The 270 Win. Will give more recoil.
For every action there is a reaction.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
I have a Winchester M70 XTR in .270 and a Winchester M70 Featherweight in 7x57 mauser.

What are the rates of twist in your two rifles?

The .270 has a 1 in 10" twist, the 7x57is 1 in 8.5" I think and my custom 7x57 Mauser is 1 in 8.5". I think my Ruger #1A 7x57 is 1 in 9" but not sure.
Paul B.

Paul -

So, Winchester M70 in 270 has 1 in 10" twist and in 7x57 has 1 in 8.5" twist.

Using the TSX bullets as an example.

quote:

.270 Winchester TSX info from Barnes: http://www.barnesbullets.com/w...70WinchesterWeb2.pdf

*A 1:9.5” or faster twist is recommended for the 150-grain TSX

quote:

7x57 TSX info from Barnes: http://www.barnesbullets.com/w.../7X57mmMauserWeb.pdf

*A 1:9” or faster twist is recommended for the 175-grain TSX.

Because of the slow rate of twist in the M70, Barnes recommends .277 TSX bullets of 140gr and under. But the rate of twist in the M70 7x57 is fast enough for their 175gr .284 TSX.

This is why I said, " Winchester's standard M70 rates of twist favor the lighter bullets in 270 and the heavier bullets in 7x57", ie. a 140gr .277 vs a 175gr .284.

Bullets mismatched to a rate of twist may shoot accurately at shorter ranges only to become unstable and inaccurate at longer ranges, perhaps to the point of key-holing. Also, most people only think of accuracy when they think of using bullets for a given twist. But the most important work of a bullet begins when it hits the animal. A bullet on the verge of instability will likely wobble and tumble once it encounters flesh whereas a stable bullet is more likely to stay on axis as it does its job.

I don't know how long the 150 gr. .277 XXX bullet is, but the 160 gr. Nosler is 1.3" (and the 150 gr. Nosler is 1.25").

Back in 2005, I couldn't get good accuracy from the 160 gr. Partion in my model 70. Something like 1.5" to 2" at 100 yards. I will say that I didn't have time to play around with it as much as I would have liked. I think I tried only RL 22 & 25. Velocity was superb, though - about 2850 iirc.

I settled on 150 gr. A-frames & RL 22. That gave me sub 1" groups & 3000 fps.

I would like to try the heavier Partitions again someday, but so many choices, so little time!

friar

Back when I was ready to buy my first deer rifle it was pretty much between these two.I went with the 7x57 and never once regretted my choice.

Two cartridges very similar in capabilities but quite different in personality. Each excellent when properly used.

I have always considered the 270 an out west cartridge and the 7x57 more is an east of the Mississippi cartridge. No idea why other than I seldom see anyone hunting east of the Mississippi with a 270.

Simple!

I'd choose whichever of the two is likely to feed and eject through your chosen action.

I expect that means the 270 WCF over the 7mm Mauser?

Personally I'd choose the best compromise of the two....long cartridge in 7mm....280 Remington or at a pinch 7x64 perhaps?

Picked up a pre64 FW .270 w/a Redfield 2 3/4x scope up in the Adirondacks, NY back in the 70's. Light and handy, used it for the next 20 yrs while everybody around me had 30/30,35's and 44mags.Really was lookin for a 30/40 Krag but they were scarce as hens teeth then.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
Simple!

I'd choose whichever of the two is likely to feed and eject through your chosen action.

I expect that means the 270 WCF over the 7mm Mauser?

Personally I'd choose the best compromise of the two....long cartridge in 7mm....280 Remington or at a pinch 7x64 perhaps?

Well, I have rilfes in 7x57, .270 and I even have a .280 Remington. Don't have a 7x64 yet but you never know what may pop up next.
Paul B.

I have both in commercial Husqvarna rifles, a 1953 270 on an FN action and a 1955 7x57 4100 Lightweight.

So I don't have to make that decision.

My pet this year is the 7x57 but that is because it is a smaller lighter rifle to carry around.