Was looking at Sako's site, and saw this bit about having to glue the rails.



Can you explain this? Why would the rails need to be glued when they are screwed down? Is it something particular to this rifle or these rails?

I always screw and glue. In Australia we use a 24 hour 50/50 epoxy called Araldite. It sets with hardness that would be similar to nylon.

Mild heat and the screws come out and bases come off.

Trichlorethane will completely remove the epoxy if the action is put into it. You can also use something like a tooth brush and one of the ammonia based bore cleaners.

Yep always Araldite all scope bases irrespective of whether they are Weaver, aluminium, steel or not and the screw threads. Stops moisture working in under the bases and never ever have to worry about bases coming loose.

I agree with the previous posters. Next time you mount bases put some spotting color on them and attach. Remove and observe contact area to receiver. I have seen as little as the outside edges in contact. The "glue" or more properly bedding compound assures 100% contact and sealing of the joint. Squeeze-out is easily removed early on with the sharpened edge of a credit card while the epoxy is still soft. I use Devcon 5 minute steel filled.

Agreed. Scope mounts on everything above .308 Win get glued.

I have a Rigby to which somebody has glued and screwed a Leupold mount. How much heat is needed to get it off, as the screws are not coming out with just hand pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
I have a Rigby to which somebody has glued and screwed a Leupold mount. How much heat is needed to get it off, as the screws are not coming out with just hand pressure.

And that is exactly my worry. Glue, heat, residuals, finish damage... Scary stuff

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
I have a Rigby to which somebody has glued and screwed a Leupold mount. How much heat is needed to get it off, as the screws are not coming out with just hand pressure.

The Araldite I mentioned will become soft at 65 C or 150 F

Some epozy like Devcons (and assuming it has been there for months or more) will be about 100 C

However, in real terms the screws will come out at temperatures that are lower.

The tricky ones ( and I NEVER NEVER NEVER use them) are some of the locktites. These have a type of grit in them to bind the screws. In addition they are not as good as epoxy glues for this purpose.

I don't know what Araldite is called in different countries but the key point is you want epoxy glue, not an epoxy filler such as Devcon and similar.

The glue will be a 50/50 mix and get the 24 hour one not the fast curing.

I agree with everything Michael has said. Removing Araldite just requires some heat, I use a pencil gas flame, to soften and then screws and bases remove easily.
Any residue of Araldite can be wiped off with a cloth and/or brushed with a soft bronze brush. The heat used is not enough to affect the metal and the Araldite doesn't affect the blueing.

Of course I remove the action from the stock when applying heat.

No worries. Heat your scredriver/torx/hex bit and apply to screw head for 30 seconds. This should allow glue to soften. As for residual epoxy on the receiver, I soak in acetone, then scrape off remaining glue with the edge of a nickle. No finish damage.

quote:

Originally posted by Brian564:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
I have a Rigby to which somebody has glued and screwed a Leupold mount. How much heat is needed to get it off, as the screws are not coming out with just hand pressure.

And that is exactly my worry. Glue, heat, residuals, finish damage... Scary stuff

Interesting discussion. I have glued front sights on with Araldite and find it works well. Some of it is supposed to soften at 50 celsius and some at 80 degrees. The way the world is going, I'd go with the latter

quote:

Originally posted by Michael McGuire:

The tricky ones ( and I NEVER NEVER NEVER use them) are some of the locktites.

M, If one is careful to choose the correct Loctite product for the application - and apply it in proper manner, its not tricky.

That's a bunch of BS, they don't have to be glued but its a good idea to glue the scope screws with lock tite or even glass..Aluminum or steel has been working for Weaver for about 70 plus years..If you are shooting a big bore I suggest you recut the screw holes to 8/40s and glass them in regardless of the make of base or its composition..If a base fails it will be the screw breaking not the base.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
That's a bunch of BS, they don't have to be glued but its a good idea to glue the scope screws with lock tite or even glass..Aluminum or steel has been working for Weaver for about 70 plus years..If you are shooting a big bore I suggest you recut the screw holes to 8/40s and glass them in regardless of the make of base or its composition..If a base fails it will be the screw breaking not the base.

Ray I don't think anyone has implied a base itself will fail. You are quite right in that it will be screws breaking or coming loose that can be an issue and not just with heavy recoiling rifles.
Yes opening the threads out to the larger 8/40 size will help but at the end of the day gluing the bases on with a good epoxy glue takes much of the load off the screws and stops the stress load from recoil transferring through to the screw threads which can stretch and work loose, eventually letting go. The same epoxy on the screw threads with ensure a recoil beating lockup of the bases.

I don't understand the reluctance to use the modern epoxy glues available and do a proper job first up. I mentioned in another post that we often go to some time and expense to glass bed actions and barrels, crown muzzles, specially clean bores, adjust or replace triggers, fit high priced scopes, make up super accurate ammo, and then do a half arsed job of fitting the bases. Just doesn't make sense now does it?

Eagle 27,
The subject was "Scope rails "have to be glued"..so I addressed that specific issue.

Yes I glass all my base screws..If I want them out I simply heat up the screws with a kitchen torch that directs a tiny flame and unscrew them or I have heated a screw driver red hot in my drill press and hand turned the screws out..both work equally well it seems.. I also mostly have 8/40 screws in my bases and rifles of larger calibers and even in some of my saddle guns..

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:


I don't understand the reluctance to use the modern epoxy glues available and do a proper job first up....

A proper job would be to have the bottom of bases precisely match the contour of the reciever
and have the screws a snug machine-fit into the bases.

But thats far more expensive than the epoxy 'fill the gaps' approach.

It has been nearly half a century since I started "borrowing" my Mother's, and then wife's fingernail polish to do the same job. Just a wee dab does the trick, and I can take them back off if I choose.

This notion is like contracting AIDS. Once you got it, you got it for life.

I use loctite 242. I had a scope come loose on a hunt about 10 years ago and decided something extra was needed...yes if I would have checked it before leaving I could have prevented it but I haven't had any issues since.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:


I don't understand the reluctance to use the modern epoxy glues available and do a proper job first up....

A proper job would be to have the bottom of bases precisely match the contour of the reciever
and have the screws a snug machine-fit into the bases.

But thats far more expensive than the epoxy 'fill the gaps' approach.

Trax you are perfectly correct, there are the "proper" ways of doing every job but often cost would make many items of equipment that we use far too expensive. After all if firearms were properly bedded in their stocks by their manufacturers the practice of after market or even factory glass bedding would not be required.

There are a trillion other examples in our lives where if something was done properly in the first place it would not have to be fixed. Haven't they found that out to the expense of quite a few human lives with a couple of multi- billion dollar space shuttles

What are the thoughts on JB Weld epoxy?

the negative with every other method is that it is intended to be permanent.

I have never had the fingernail polish sealant fail me, and I have taken the bases off of more than a dozen rifles with no ill effects...

A 100% success record is hard to beat.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

...there are the "proper" ways of doing every job but often cost would make many items of equipment
that we use far too expensive.(

I rarely regretted spending more money to gain higher quality.
however, I've also used factory leupold mounts on factory rifles for decades, and had no problems arise.

Realistically, expensive high-level scope mounts, are mostly not necessary,
but like Rolex dive watches, even people who don't go near the water still buy one just to flash in the office.

quote:

Originally posted by montea6b:
What are the thoughts on JB Weld epoxy?

I put a front globe sight on a 22 with JB Weld alone (no screws) years ago. It has been banged a few times but with no recoil there isn't much of a comparison. I have no idea how to take it off and would like to hear suggestions and opinions.

Tree 'em,

two options.

heat carefully
put in the freezer overnight

quote:

Originally posted by TREE 'EM:

quote:

Originally posted by montea6b:
What are the thoughts on JB Weld epoxy?

I put a front globe sight on a 22 with JB Weld alone (no screws) years ago. It has been banged a few times but with no recoil there isn't much of a comparison. I have no idea how to take it off and would like to hear suggestions and opinions.

Some thoughts:

I once had a ramp front sight base on a rifle crack because I mistreated it in trying to push the sight insert out.
So I unscrewed the ramp and put it back on with JB Weld and the original screws.
By golly it looked great, undetectable repair, I cannot even find it myself now.
Thought I would go back with a torch and remove it, but it is probably stronger now than it was before I broke it, so I decided to leave undetectable alone.

You could try the freezer and a whack with a mallet as ISS suggested.
Or prepare to heat it to 600 F and then whack it with a mallet.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...061096512#5061096512

Excerpt from above:


I do glue my bases, any bases on any rifle, if I cannot get integral scope mount bases.

I use JB Weld if I want it more permanent, and plan to have to get the stuff heated to 600 degrees F to get it off.

But the clear epoxy, generic 4-Hr, 24-Hr, or Acraglas will do and it comes off easily and quickly, with much lower heat, from a propane torch applied to the screws in the bases.
Barreled action is removed from stock and wrapped in wet towels for that torching and unscrewing, of course.

I just removed a Leupold Mark 4 rear base that was JB Weld glued onto a Weatherby Mark V 500 Bateleur (.510/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved).



The JB Welded front base will be left as is:



It took 10 seconds of a tiny blue cone of propane torch applied to each screw in the base, with the barreled action wrapped in wet wash cloths in a vise with rubber jaw protectors.

After removing the two screws, heat and unscrew first screw then heat and unscrew second screw, the base just fell off.

Then I played the tiny blue propane cone of flame (adjusted about as low as would keep burning) over the residual JB Weld left under the base, on the rear receiver bridge, for about 10 seconds total.
Then a bronze bristle brush was used to scrape off the JB Weld, pretty as you please.

I am leaving the front base on the rifle alone.
The rear base needs to come up .020" by shimming.
I will do that with a metal shim of layers of dental X-ray film packaging foil (a lead alloy) and more JB Weld.

The Weatherby Mark V has the same hole spacing and contours as the Remington LA BDL, but the Mark V rear bridge is about 20 thou lower than the BDL, not quite the same.
Since I just decided this must be true from the excess use of elevation adjustment to zero this rifle, I had to un-do the JB Weld on the rear base.
No problem at all.

Riflecrank Internationale Permanente

8x40-screwed, shimmed, and glued on the rear with JB Weld.
Front is glued and screwed, no shim needed on the front.
I switched to aluminum pie pan for the shims.
I did get the JB Weld in there wherever I could.

Makes sense when you think about.
All those rifles in Australia are upside down and need the glue so they dont fall off!




Cool discussion with what is so common one place is pretty much unheard of in the states.

Buy Ruger MKIIs I never had one of their bases come loose.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Buy Ruger MKIIs I never had one of their bases come loose.

I have not had much to do with Rugers.

However, I would prefer a screw and glue on other bases and apart from choice the cross slot type mount (as in RIP's photos) provides for a much longer contact area between the bottom ring and the base.