G&H has a neat looking Sauer sporter listed in their used guns list at $2600...

8x60 or 8x60S? The difference is a .318 groove diameter vs. a .323" groove diameter on the more common "S" bore.

I started to buy an 8x60 in a Sako Mauser, but the .318 diameter had me buffaloed. I'm told by those who have them that a .323" bullet swages down without squawking too much and you won't know the difference. Maybe, but I was a bit skeptical.

My 8x60 magnum Bombe

Frank

Very nice. Are those leaf sights regulated for a certain bullet weight?

i have a turk Mauser that I think had enough headspace to think it is an 8 x 60 instead of an 8 x 57!

I own a 8X60S in a modern mauser commercial FN action with a 24" barrel. I get honestly without external signs of pressure, close to 2900 ft/s with speer 170 gr bullets. In medium game (even red deer) at medium to long ranges (150-350m) the behaviour has been excellent for me. Almost all the game have been taken with one shoot. In driven hunting, the working of this cartridge has been very good, low recoil and great stopping powder. In my opinion very good cartridge.

As you already know it was a "work around" to avoid restrictions on the military 8 x 57. In fact it is still reasonably popular for that reason in modern day France!

Cases aren't a problem either. Just run standard 30-06 cases through your 8 x 60 sizing die then neck expand and then trim. We sometimes did this here in UK so I know that it works.

quote:

I'm told by those who have them that a .323" bullet swages down without squawking too much and you won't know the difference.

Not by firing it I hope! Again here in UK we though it safer because of jacket to core separation issues to bump up bullets to 318 from something slightly smaller rather than swage down.

We had a theory that the lead was not elastic so would stay the size it was swaged down to but that the copper or actually alloy jacket was elastic so would ever so slightly "spring" back.

Maybe a load of BS I don't know. But these theories end up getting repeated and gaining a truth of their own.

enfieldspares: Yes, I meant by firing it.

As I say, I was skeptical enough of using .323" bullets in a .318" barrel that I declined to purchase an 8x60. However, I think you would be surprise at how little extra pressure is generated by the oversized bullet. As you may be aware, American manufacturers "underload" the 8x57JS due to the likelihood of it being fired in an I-bore (.318") gun, which apparently happens all the time with no problematic results. Even accuracy seems acceptable with the .005" oversized bullets.

By the way, I was looking at the Lothar-Walther website considering purchasing an 8x57 barrel for an FN action. L-W's pre-chambered 8x57 barrels have a .323" groove and a .311"(!) bore. One would think that these extra high lands would increase pressures, but apparently it is not significant.

The bore doesn't really matter, it's the chamber throat that causes the increase in pressure. Even those post war Sako's with the .318 groove should still have an S rated chamber.

I've owned several factory Brno sporters in 8x60, and their bores were all .321, right in the middle. I still have this one. There are more pics of it on GA.



I've also got extra factory ammo and new dies if anybody needs some.



It is important to remember that the I vs S chamber was a German issue, simply because they converted to a .323 spitzer bullet in 1905 (I think). The Czechs, Finnish and FN didn't start making 8x60 sporters (or 8x57) until much later, so the chamber was not an issue. They never had an I chamber to begin with, like the Germans. I did notice, however, that post war sporters from Czechoslovakia did start to use the 8x60S stamp instead of just 8x60. Most likely to match the newly available commercial ammunition.

I've handled the 8x60 Sauer at Griffin & Howe. The forend is so slender, I don't think it's 3/8ths wider than the barrel. Nice engraving and an elegant little piece. I believe it is a .323 bore as well.

I have a Brno in 8x60S and it´s a wonderful cartridge and a great rifle -one of my favorites. I really like the 8mm:s, I also have one in 8x68 which also shoots like a dream.

I´d love to have a 8x64 just to have the "series".

cewe!

What bullets are you using in your 8x68??

It is a Brno also?

What is the twist rate?

What is your overall cartridge length?

Do you want some Nosler 200 grain Partitions?

How much does brass cost you up there?

I know RWS makes good brass, and Horneber used to as well. Does anyone else make 8x68 brass?

Thanks,

LD

My grandfather owns Pre-World War II Mauser rifle in that caliber. His is without a scope (he claims never has used one) he uses it specially for hunting hogs (handloaded with 220gr Sierra GameKing)

Maybe some of your opinions could help me make a decision relating to the 8x60. I've been thinking of having a rifle chambered for the 8x60S, just because I think it is an interesting and useful cartridge, and I already have two good 8x57s.

The thought is to use the 8x60S for the heavy bullets, namely 220 grs, of which I have a bunch, in Hornady, Remington, Sierra, and Swift. And use the 8x57s for 175gr - 200gr bullets.

So, my indecision is because there is the 8mm-06, and the 338-06 for comparison, and both offer a little more than the 8x60s, using the same action. But then - the 8x60S is plenty adequate. One reason to skip the 338-06 is because I have a lot of 8mm bullets already. So, I suppose it's a comparison or choice between the 8mm-06 or the 8x60S.

Another hard choice is which action to use. I have a CZ 550 medium action which would be perfect, already with the correct bolt face, three position safety and the single-set trigger. But I also have several Mauser 98 actions to choose from, FNs & VZ24 & S42, all with 06 length magazines. I have stocks for any of the action choices.

Although the 98 Mausers are traditional for this cartridge, I'm awful tempted to use the CZ action, because it's ready to go, and it's a nice action, and I have a Euro style CZ stock that seems to fit me well.

So, what do you think? 8x60S or 8mm-06? CZ 550 action or Mauser 98?

KB

The 8mm-06 shines with light bullets, but by the time you deep seat heavy bullets you end up with the about the same amount of powder as the 8x60.

I think the below pic shows Woodleigh 250's being loaded into an 8x60.

Here's a pair. Only pic I had available. I have one other in the works.

The one with the DST is very accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
I have a Brno in 8x60S and it´s a wonderful cartridge and a great rifle -one of my favorites. I really like the 8mm:s, I also have one in 8x68 which also shoots like a dream.

I´d love to have a 8x64 just to have the "series".

Cewe,

Hi there - good to see you here, it's been a while?

Is that BRNO a ZG47? I have such a beast that I think is rather rare. Is your's stocked by Boha? I've been trying to contact him again (after a long period) if you are able could you pm me his e mail?

quote:

Originally posted by KurtC:
The bore doesn't really matter, it's the chamber throat that causes the increase in pressure. Even those post war Sako's with the .318 groove should still have an S rated chamber.

I've owned several factory Brno sporters in 8x60, and their bores were all .321, right in the middle. I still have this one. There are more pics of it on GA.



I've also got extra factory ammo and new dies if anybody needs some.



It is important to remember that the I vs S chamber was a German issue, simply because they converted to a .323 spitzer bullet in 1905 (I think). The Czechs, Finnish and FN didn't start making 8x60 sporters (or 8x57) until much later, so the chamber was not an issue. They never had an I chamber to begin with, like the Germans. I did notice, however, that post war sporters from Czechoslovakia did start to use the 8x60S stamp instead of just 8x60. Most likely to match the newly available commercial ammunition.

I'm interested in the dies and perhaps some ammunition. PM sent.