Hey Con

I was writing my post when you posted! Yes, I like 358 quite a bit. I used a 358 STA for a long time as my favorite medium bore. It hammered a bunch of critters in it's day. I have two of them, both Win M70s of course.

My first thought for the B&M was 35, but as I just explained most bullets too long for the case to fit in the small WSM magazine, have to keep the OAL to just less than 3 inches total to fit. This left out too many good 358 caliber bullets---thus 9.3. And too I have been on a 9.3 kick of late with the 9.3X338 Winchester, and then the now neglected 9.3 Ultra.

Capoward was kind enough to send me some basic 416 Rug brass recently, fits perfect in a Win standard action, that would make a bad little 358. Of course I am investigating .500 caliber for that.

I have 358 Win--35 Whelen--358 STA--and 358 Ultra--So yes, I am 358 fan for sure!

I have not talked to Brian this week because most of them have been out.
--No Worries Mate (learned that while I was in Australia you Know)

Michael

Michael,
I figured case length may have been an issue with your COL requirememt. My Ruger 350RemMag has been slightly stretched and I can just squeeze the 310gr Woodleigh soft in at 2.95". I figure though that when pushing heavy pills, velocity is secondary ... but if you can get the 200gr/225gr range singing along then most seem happy.

I reckon we're living through an odd time projectile wise. We have access to arguably the best we have ever seen ... lightweight mono-metals that can hit at high velocity and penetrate like crazy. But as hunters we remain hesitant to trust the lighter shorter monos on soft skinned game. I simply have to try say a 130gr TSX from my 308Win on Sambar deer as opposed to the 180gr cup/core or 165gr TSX that is so often recommended.
Cheers...
Con

GENT'S, JUST GOT BACK FROM A MOOSE HUNT IN B.C.
WHAT A GREAT HUNT AND USED MY CZ 9.3X62 LOADED WITH 58.5 GRAINS OF R-15 AND 286 NOSLER PARTITIONS FOR A VOL. OF 2310 FPS. I WAS ALWAYS AWARE OF THE POSSIBLITY OF A 300 PLUS YARD SHOT BUT DID NOT EXPECT ONE. THEN, YES YOU GOT IT, I GOT A WIDE OPEN BROADSIDE SHOT AT A NICE 3 YEAR OLD BULL AT A MEASURED 330 YARDS. AFTER 3 SHOTS THE MOOSE WENT DOWN. TWO SHOTS PENETRATED COMPLETELY AND ONE WAS FOUND ON THE FAR SIDE. THE BULLET FOUND PERFORMED PERFECTLY. I WAS LEARY IF THE 9.3 WAS UP TO THE TASK AT 300 BUT I WAS WRONG THIS IS A 300 YARDER IF THE SHOOTER IS UP TO THE TASK.

I AM LOOKING AT BUILDING ANOTHER 9.3 BUT HAVE NOT DECIDED. YOUR'S IS A NICE DESIGN AND WILL BE LOOKED AT CLOSELY. LOVE THAT 9.3.

IF YOU HAVE NOT SHOT THE 9.3X62 YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF. IT IS NOT A HARD RIFLE TO SHOOT AND IS ACCURATE WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT LOADS.

derf9.3.....CONGRATS BUDDY!.... ...Thats what i've seen from all Nosler Partions...Congrats on the Bull again...

derf9.3

Very good, cograts on the moose!!!!! Photos?

I think 9.3 has a great reputation, and is why I chose it for the B&M series. I have not had time to work with mine very much since getting back from Australia, but it will hold it's own against any medium caliber cartridge I believe. It is already matching what I am doing with the 9.3X338 with 22 inch barrels. With a 286 at 2500--2550 and 250s at 2650-2725 depending on bullet. I have been working with the Hornady 286 and have not tried the partition in it yet.
Michael

michael458,

I've got a sporterized Vz-24 rebarreled (24") to 9.3x62. My reloads for it are a 286 NPT at 2,400 fps and a 300 Swift "A" at 2350 using IMR-4320. My field experience is very similar to Mike's post below except that it hasn't been to Africa yet.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Michael,

I have two 9,3x62s. One is a CZ550 American with a 24" barrel. Got it cheap on ARBay from FourTails. Hellova deal! Liked it so much I build one from a VZ.24 with a 24" Douglas barrel on a cheap synthetic stock. Has custom QR mounts holding a 3-9x40MC Conquest or a 1.8-5.5 Conquest.

My standard load is the 286 grain Nosler with 58 gr of RL-15 on Graf cases ignited by WLR primers. Make right at 2425 in both rifles.

The rifles have taken Whitetails and piggies in the US. All have been one shot drop DRTs. It simply knocked over a 225 pound piggie at 100 yards in Texas.

Each of the 9,3x62s has been to Africa. They've taken several Impala, Warthog, Bushpig, Reedbock, Blue Wildebeast, and Kudu. Only the Kudu was not a DRT ... and he had not read "The Perfect Shot."

The 9,3 x 62 doesn't catch a lot of interest among most hunters and certainly doesn't seem to be glamorous in the least. It just works!

I've not shot any game with the 300 "A" yet because I haven't found the beast yet that can stop the 286 NPT! I've shot deer and hogs - It's gone straight through everything at every angle, taking out all hide mussle and bone along the way. Entrance holes are bullet size - Exits are 1.5" round. It's knocked everything over and they don't get up! So far (knock-on-wood) its the only 100% DRT rifle I own or have ever owned!

I like the way Mike put it - It just works!

I have a 64 Brenneke, I have used it to take a big black bear and a moose with the 286 partition. Works good. Mine is on a 98 action and a 22' bbl. With a short LOP stock it is one hell of a hunting rifle, small yet powerfull and capable of those "long shots" that you have to take evey once in a while.

It is funny, I was looking at converting 338 brass over to brenneke brass. It looks to requre a lot of work, turning the belt off, reducing case body diameter slighly near the base, cutting the extractor groove deeper and turning the head down a little. I am sure I can do it on the lathe if needed just to keep the X64 running if no brass is avalible....but I could not help thinking that a 9.3x 338 would be so much easyer with nearly identical case capacitys.

Good job on choosing a verson that is easy to make brass for. A short action with a short bbl would make one hell of a hunting combo and you will never run out of brass, that is for sure.

Ray
Thanks for the info, I am sure the 9.3 B&M will do exactly what I ask of it. I needed a medium caliber to go with my B&M series--416-458-50 and then the big 500 MDM. The 9.3 fits in the small WSM action and uses cut RUM brass and can get away with 20 inches of barrel, making a nice package to carry.

Rep Alberta

As for the 9.3X338 you can get dies from Hornady and it is just as simple as running 338 Win brass thru the size die and load. I have two of these rifles and decided with this case to go to 22 inches of barrel to be efficient.

The 9.3 B&M is a little tougher because the RUM brass has to be cut and trimmed to 2.24 inches to fit into the WSM action. Not really a big deal, once cut and trimmed, all you have to do is run it thru the size die and load. With the same case capacity as the 9.3X338, only in a shorter case, I can get away with 20 inches of barrel.

Thanks
Michael

Just love the 9.3s more and more every time I use them on a hunt.

Well the 9.3x64 with 286 North Forks did its job VERY well in Mozambique and Botswana last month.

I had shots from 85 yards to 295 yards.

Everything I pointed that rifle at just gave up and died. Perfect performance and incredible accuracy. The game taken ranged from red duikker to sable, zebra and nyala (finally after 5 trips with them on the list!).

Again, I don't hot rod my loads much. I have the North Forks going about 2550 from my Blaser R93 with the 25.7" barrel. My rifle is topped with a Swarovski Z6i containing a TDS reticle. Just about a perfect combination for any plains game you may encounter. This combination of rifle, scope and loading produces 5 shot groups that pretty much cloverleaf at 100 yards and is VERY easy on the shoulder. The Z6 TDS made longer range shots in the desert no problem at all. Of course, I had fired each line of the reticle for verification to 300 yards as that's all I have available for a range.

With those terrific results I've cooled myself off on a 9.3 B&M project for now. The R93 offers a left-handed great shooting rifle in a fairly compact, easy to travel with break down combo even considering the 25" barrel length.

Now the 416 B&M is another story.....Never know when Big Foot may show up here on the property!

Especially since my rifle battery is laking a contender right now in a caliber over .400....

Hey Chopper!

I think your rifle is doing just fine, while the 9.3 B&M can offer you nothing that your can't do. Except a little shorter and lighter is all.

The 416 B&M has been a winner. My boys used it in RSA last year and it did a jam up job on kudu, oryx, wildebeast and such as that. I used it on cape buffalo the end of 2007 and it did as good as any 416 can do. Right now I am thinking of taking a little light 416 B&M I have with one of the Ulitmate stocks and 18 inch barrels for musk ox in April. Little gun only weighs 6.5 lbs and is extremely handy.

A buddy of mine has one that he shot eland, giraffe, kudu, and all sorts of things last year too.

I just had a myrtle stock fitted to a 20 inch 416 B&M I had, it looks pretty sharp!

Anyway thanks for the report! One day I will get my 9.3 B&M in the field! If I can get all my big bores out of the way first. Capoward and I are right now working on a new line of cartridges that I think is going to be super too!

Michael

Now that the medium bore question is answered in my mind - The larger bore is up for debate.

I really can't decide between the 416 and the 458.

I like the 416 as I've had great sucess with other rifles in the 416 Rem Mag and 500/416 on large and dangerous game.

But when going bigger, may as well consider the 458. I like the idea of the availability of 45-70 projectiles for a light load and the numerous offerings in heavier 458 bullets out there.

What's a rifle nut to do???????

Michael458 -

Do you still use SSK for your conversions?

Chopper

PM answered so I won't go into details here. But I like the 458 B&M a lot! Probably would be my choice.

Now a real nut case would have 416-458-and 50!

Yes, SSK---would not have anyone else on this project.

Michael

Last week I was finally able to do some 9.3 terminal test work on a few 9.3 caliber bullets in the 9.3 B&M. Those of you not familiar with some of the tests I conduct I use a mix of wet news print and catalogs or magazines. Roughly 30% magazines/catalogs and 70% news print. This mix does stress bullets more so than just standard wet print. My test box is on wheels and can hold up to 62-64 inches of this mix. It is soaked throughly and allowed to soak overnight.

For correlation back to animal tissue one can add from 80-100% increase in penetration to what is tested in the mix for expanding bullets and 30% increase in penetration for solids.

First up is the 250 Nosler Accubond. I was very pleasantly surprised with this performance.


I was a little disappointed in the 250 Woodleigh, obviously this bullet is made for much lower velocity to get better performance overall.


Always a good performer all around for expansion and penetration the 250 Barnes X


Excellent performance from Hornady.


Last but not least one that gave me some serious surprises. The 320 Woodleigh FMJ RN. As some know, I am not a round nose fmj fan at all, but this one really performs and I ordered a new box today from Midway just to have on hand! Although I do not plan to hunt this rifle for DG, it always pays to have a few deep penetrators on hand should one need it!


Michael

Michael,

See you got the 320gr solid out of the wall))) Those very long, heavy for caliber, bullets really penetrate deep! Have you found the 156gr RN 6.5mm bullets that went all the way through the box?

Will get the 320gr softs back to you as soon as I can so you can update your info for all to see.

Bike Rider

Corbin

The 320 you see above is the one from the wall. We dug this thing out, but it was in there tight.
Never have found the 6.5s---?????




Michael

While we did test the 286 Barnes Banded solid it was not in the 9.3 B&M, but a 9.3X62 at the time, velocity at 2223 fps and 2377 fps at impact.

Results were exactly the same at both velocities
Started to veer off course at 25 inches, at 2223 fps bullets went to 28 inches total, and turned around backwards. At 2377 fps bullets started turning at 25 inches, nearly exiting the box at 28 inches.

In my opinion this is rather poor performance, but one also must keep in mind this is a very tough medium on solids, if there is any instability at all, it will be found in this medium. I am also of the opinion that the meplat on this bullet is very small, and too small to be of any consequence or have any positive effect on penetration. Unlike it's larger cousins in 416 caliber and up.

The Woodleigh 320 FMJ on the other hand exceeded in the extreme what I expected giving dead straight penetration, exiting the box, and continuing on course to land in the concrete retaining wall at the back of the range, as you see in the previous post. Also unlike it's larger bore cousins, the 9.3 and the 358 caliber FMJ Woodleighs have more of a flattened nose than the larger bore Woodleigh FMJs and I contribute it's superior penetration to that. I have in the past tested the 358 caliber version with much the same results.


Michael

Did a little more work with the 9.3 B&M this week. Nothing earth shattering of course, but now have a 286 gr Barnes TSX at 2580 fps, this should accomplish any mission I would ask of it, excellent accuracy too.

At the request of member Honkey I slowed down the 286 Hornady to 2200 fps and conducted a terminal performance test at this impact velocity to compare with the one above at 2500 fps impact. Penetration increased, but weight retention remained basically the same.

In September, I used my 9.3x64 loaded with 286 gr North Fork bullets traveling at 2550 fps to take a zebra in Botswana.

These skiddish critters would not let us get close so I shot mine at 235 yards. Frontal quartering shot from which the bullet was recovered in the opposite rear flank after shooting the beast at 235 yards.

Recovered weight is 280.6 gr and expanded to .745".

Now I could have pushed these bullets faster, however at 2550 fps I was shooting 1/2 MOA at 200 yards in my R93.

Good enough for me and all the game I took in Moz and Botswana fell to one shot each. This ranged from red duikker to sable and zebra.

Good medicine. The 9.3 B&M would be just as good under any similar hunting situations.

Chopper

What you mention about zebra, sable and other similar critters is exactly what I intend for the 9.3 B&M. I am really rather excited about the little gun! The only thing I had any accuracy issues with at all were the 250 gr Woodleighs. They seemed a little sensitive to different loads, but I finally got the accuracy right for them, but as you can see above it is a little to much velocity for that bullet. The Barnes TSX, in particular the 250 gr and the Hornady 286 shoot 1 hole with nearly any velocity, any powder, any load! I have always found using a good bullet at the right velocity would solve almost any issue. I look forward to getting the 9.3 to the field!

Thanks
Michael

I get fantastic accuracy and performance from the 250 Swift A Frames in my 9.3x62 R93.

Once again, I got the best accuracy at velocities less than I could have pushed these bullets to.

I once used this rifle and loads in Africa to take numerous animals our to ranges at 287 yards. All one shot stops on game to the size of Kudu and Oryx.

Again, good medicine.

Chopper

In the 9.3 B&M I am not having such good luck with the 250 Woodleigh or the 250 Swift in the accuracy/load development. I have a couple of load combinations that is very good, but the majority is not so great! With some bullets, 250 Barnes TSX and the 286 Hornady for example, there are no bad loads, any powder, any velocity makes no difference all in one hole if I do my job. I suppose like a lot of things, just that individual barrel.

Michael