Guys

Have a 300 Win Mag Win Mdl 70, synthetic/blue with 26 inch barrel.

Am I crazy to
a) cut it down
b)cut it down to 22 inches?

I will hunt with it in the really thick stuff, and in the past the longer barrel is always catching.

I think 24 would be fine, but going to 22- I like this barrell length.....the rifle is fairly barrel heavy now, and I understand I will lose about 80 foot ponds an inch. I don't mind this.

I suppose I am trying to semi-anonymously ask, thereby avoiding my local gunsmith giving me 5 reasons everybody knows not to do this.

Thank you.

You lose a little velocity and increase muzzle blast a little but you already knew that. I shoot a .338 Win in a full stocked Dumoulin with a 20.5" barrel. You notice the extra muzzle blast from the bench but not when hunting. If it's what you want go for it, it will certainly be an easier carry in the woods.

30 Mags based on 2.5 inch case ( you pick your flavor 300 Win, 30-338, Ackleys, etc ) have a short enough powder column they work very well with 22-23" barrels. There is some loss of velocity but not significant.

The full length 30 cases of 2.8" length ( 300 Weatherby, 300 Rem Ultra Mag, etc) are more effected by shorter barrels, and velocity drop is more noticable with shorter barrel.

I should clarify my "powder column" comment. its really about case capacity and suitable powders for the case design. The cases that use the very slow burn rate powders which is generally the very large volume cases use the extra barrel lengths to get the most out of these powders. The shorter cases use faster burn rate powders and these tend to work more efficiently in a shorter barrel.

The one 30 mag that is a known exception to the above general guidlines is the 300 H&H which although a long case doesn't really have that much case capacity for its length and it uses the faster burn rate powders, so it falls into the first group on barrel length.

This doesn't mean I am suggesting you aren't going to lose some velocity with loss of barrel length: you will, just that not a much as in the big 30 mags.

Another variable in this process is every rifle is different. Variances in the chambering dimensions, bore and groove diameter, and freebore can have equal or more impact than a loss of 1-2" of barrel length.

If you use medium burn rate powders such as IMR 4064, RL 15, IMR 4895, IMR 3031, W 748, H 380 et al, you may not loose as much velocity as you might expereince with the slower powders and shorter barrels.

Less powder will cut down on the recoil, by going to the faster powders.

Just play with it, if you do cut the barrel down.

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by jehand:
Guys

Have a 300 Win Mag Win Mdl 70, synthetic/blue with 26 inch barrel.

Am I crazy to
a) cut it down
b)cut it down to 22 inches?

I will hunt with it in the really thick stuff, and in the past the longer barrel is always catching.

I think 24 would be fine, but going to 22- I like this barrell length.....the rifle is fairly barrel heavy now, and I understand I will lose about 80 foot ponds an inch. I don't mind this.

I suppose I am trying to semi-anonymously ask, thereby avoiding my local gunsmith giving me 5 reasons everybody knows not to do this.

Thank you.

You will lose between 35 to 50 FEET PER SECOND MUZZLE VELOCITY for every inch you chop off. You will also enjoy a considerable increase in muzzle blast! But this is no concern in a hunting rifle. Good handling and ease of hitting are a lot more important than a few feet per second in bullet speed.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
If you use medium burn rate powders such as IMR 4064, RL 15, IMR 4895, IMR 3031, W 748, H 380 et al, you may not loose as much velocity as you might expereince with the slower powders and shorter barrels.

Less powder will cut down on the recoil, by going to the faster powders.

Just play with it, if you do cut the barrel down.

cheers
seafire

Seafire, you and I normally agree. However, the powder that gives you maximum velocity with a 26" barrel will also give you maximum velocity with a 20" barrel. This is because the powder that gives the maximum safe peak pressure, and then maintains the highest residual pressure until the bullet exits the muzzle, produces the highest MV you can safely get, regardless of barrel length. Using faster powders has the opposite effect when loaded to the same maximum safe pressure, because their residual pressures drop faster after peaking, (the total charge is less and faster-burning, hence is totally consumed earlier), resulting in lower accelerating force on the bullet base after peaking.

quote:

Originally posted by jehand:
Guys

Have a 300 Win Mag Win Mdl 70, synthetic/blue with 26 inch barrel.

Am I crazy to
a) cut it down
b)cut it down to 22 inches?

I will hunt with it in the really thick stuff, and in the past the longer barrel is always catching.

I think 24 would be fine, but going to 22- I like this barrell length.....the rifle is fairly barrel heavy now, and I understand I will lose about 80 foot ponds an inch. I don't mind this.

I suppose I am trying to semi-anonymously ask, thereby avoiding my local gunsmith giving me 5 reasons everybody knows not to do this.

Thank you.

If you had said 338 WM I would have said cut it to 22" and enjoy as I have done that and it works very well with little increase in muzzle blast. You state you are using it in thick bush, so unless that's your only rifle there isn't anything a 300 WM will do that a 30-06 won't do. Most of them already come with 22" barrels and I have two that I've trimmed to 20" with very good results and much handier to work with in the thick stuff. Muzzle blast will be considerably less than the magnum and the rifles are generally a lot lighter. The 30-06 also has the ability to use heavier bullets if desired the same as the magnum. The odd time I've had to stretch a shot to say 340 or 350 yards the amount of extra holdover isn't worth worrying about.

I agree with Cobra's comments about the 30-06. Rather than cutting down a magnum, prowl the gunshops for a used M-70 FWT in 30-06. With luck, you'll find one in a good synthetic stock. I have a pre-64 308 in a Borden Rimrock stock with a 4x scope; my hunting buddies all call it the perfect rifle.

Okie John

You can use the 300 in brush just like the '06 by working up a load of 47 grs AA5744 with any 220 gr semi spitzer or RN. This gives 2500 fps MV from a 22 inch bbl and moderate recoil. This charge/bullet combination needs only 22 inches of bbl to be efficient.

Ruger makes a .300 WSM with a 22 inch barrel. Just another option, or an excuse to get new gun.

quote:

You state you are using it in thick bush, so unless that's your only rifle there isn't anything a 300 WM will do that a 30-06 won't do.

Cobra, I agree wiith you on that with one exception. What I call broken country: thick brush but the ocassional cross canyon shot. Northern Idaho, Western Montana is this kind of country. If your hunting this terrain and the 300+ yard shot presents itself the 30 Mag is a big plus.

If your hunting where the range is 100 yards on a long shot with zero chance of the longer shot the 30-06 will work just as well.

Schromf
The problem is that after the 300WM is nutered to 22", you end up with 30-06 muzzle velocities and trajectories. On the down side you keep the increased powder charge and recoil of the WM, and get to enjoy (?) the increased muzzle blast.
The bullet path and impact velocity dosn't care what the chamber is called, only what the MV is.

Tailgunner,

The 30 Mags even with the shorter barrel is still going to best a 30-06. You get from 200-300 fps gain in a 30-338 or 300 Win Mag from 06 velociities. Work on the reloading bench can keep the loss of velocity in the 30 mag to 100 fps.

Your comment about gain in recoil for that amount of velocity gain over the 06 is 100% correct is this worth the 100-150 fps gain.

If I was contemplating this 23" inches would be what I would do, but unless I was unhappy with the crown on the existing rifle I wouldn't bother, it just isn't worth the 1" unless I did it myself, there are better ways to spend my gun budget.

If I really wanted a short 30 Mag I would look at this from a different perspective. Barrel length is only one part of the equation on a shorter rifle. I would focus on total length of the rifle.

A Winchester model 70 with a 23" tube is 43 1/2 inches overall length, A Ruger #1 with the same barrel length is 39 1/2 inches, If you decide to play with the short mags and don't use a model 70 action you can get a 42 1/2 rifle.

For North American use, non dangerous game the Ruger #1 makes the short 30 happen. And I am not even a big Ruger fan, but I make an exception on the #1, cause there just aren't many options in quality single shots within the average Joe's budget.

Tailgunner,

This overall rifle length part of the equation has always lead to my confusion on the current short mag fad. Winchester puts there 300 WSM's in long actions so what is the point? Remington at least uses a shorter action for a 1" saving in length and the weight gain.

I guess it can be attributed to the mysteries of marketing, gun writing hacks, and a gullable public.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
Tailgunner,

The 30 Mags even with the shorter barrel is still going to best a 30-06. You get from 200-300 fps gain in a 30-338 or 300 Win Mag from 06 velociities. Work on the reloading bench can keep the loss of velocity in the 30 mag to 100 fps.

Your comment about gain in recoil for that amount of velocity gain over the 06 is 100% correct is this worth the 100-150 fps gain.

If I was contemplating this 23" inches would be what I would do, but unless I was unhappy with the crown on the existing rifle I wouldn't bother, it just isn't worth the 1" unless I did it myself, there are better ways to spend my gun budget.

If I really wanted a short 30 Mag I would look at this from a different perspective. Barrel length is only one part of the equation on a shorter rifle. I would focus on total length of the rifle.

A Winchester model 70 with a 23" tube is 43 1/2 inches overall length, A Ruger #1 with the same barrel length is 39 1/2 inches, If you decide to play with the short mags and don't use a model 70 action you can get a 42 1/2 rifle.

For North American use, non dangerous game the Ruger #1 makes the short 30 happen. And I am not even a big Ruger fan, but I make an exception on the #1, cause there just aren't many options in quality single shots within the average Joe's budget.

My bust I just re-read the original post, a 26" was what he was working with. Makes more sense to lop off 3".

Charlie Sisk at 24hr(the posting are now lost,or I couldn't get them) cut an inch off at a time on some rifles.The greatest loss was 25f/s,sometimes it was as little as 11f/s.When all the data was read,the question was why the h*** make barrels longer than 22" ?

A 26" barrel can get in the way. On the other hand if the rifle is too heavy anyway or clumsy feeling to you cutting the barrel is only going to save a ounce an inch.

I agree with trackers observation of Sisks tests of velocity on cut barrels. For that rig I would use 20 fps per inch.

Of the 300 mags that I have one has a barrel that came with the Boss and with the Boss off it's barrel is only 23.75". This M70 is still heavy and a clumsy rifle. The barrel is really not too long however.

If you like the rifle otherwise have the barrel cut to 23". That sounds so sophisticated.

As for myself I leave guns like that home when the climbing is tough or the ranges/game don't require it. For an generic M70 like that I would take it for a walk down gunshow lane as Ray calls it and buy a Kimber 300 WSM.

What is your "composite" stock like? The one I got with my 2002 M70 SS WSM is an injected molded, warped piece of junk with the bedding way off in dimensions. The dump would not take that stock except on hazard pick up days. Its recoil pad is not a recoil pad but a copy of a torture device copied from the stuff in the Tower of London.

Unless that rifle stays sighted in all of the time and shoots small groups I would sell it. If it shoots well now then you have an long range rifle for those situations and of course you should keep it for that application.