Without starting a debate on ethics of why this or that, I am curious as to what some of your personal max ranges are and why.

Is is due to the lack of time spent at the range to shoot longer distances, optics quality, caliber restriction, size of game hunted?
These are just a few things which come to mind.

Again, this is not intended to bait anyone in nor start a debate on why someone can/can't, or should get up to muzzle blast range on something. Some folks hunt where 50 yds is a long shot and some hunt where the horizon is a long one. These areas vary and the terrain doesn't always allow for a closer stalk on a wary animal.

For me, in years past, I have for the most part stuck to anything within 400yds. I grew up hunting terrain which did not allow you to get in closer than where the game came across or towards you. Yes it was alwasy better if it came in close but this was not always the case. I learned to accept this and worked accordingly. I knew my rifles and loads were plenty capable of this range for any of the game I hunted. So I practiced through the year to keep sharp on my skills, and knowing how the loads varied under certian conditions. This allowd me to be very precise when taking a shot into consideration. Not always did I shoot, but when I did, whatever was on the receiving end stayed put. The critters range from white tailed deer thru 200+ pound feral hogs to squirrels tearing up protien feeders.

I have in the past year extended my personal range somewhat to around 800yds. This is not necessarly to shoot a game animal, but rather a feral hog or varmint.

I have practiced the skills necessary, and under the right conditions on a calm unalerted animal I am very confident to this range. My rifle is grouping well under MOA for this range and the bullets used are packing more than enough punch for anything I will ever hunt with this rifle.

I was just curious about some of the rest of you, and your thoughts.

Every shooter has his own limitations, and must know them to hunt honorably. I hunt primarily in North Louisiana where ranges are short.

A good rule of thumb is that a shooter should practice at the range he is liable to shoot game. Another good rule is one practice shot for each yard at that range... ie; 400 shots for 400 yards, 800 shots for 800 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Mke / Tx:
I am curious as to what some of your personal max ranges are and why.

Is it due to the lack of time spent at the range to shoot longer distances, optics quality, caliber restriction, size of game hunted? These are just a few things which come to mind.

Some folks hunt where 50 yds is a long shot and some hunt where the horizon is a long one. These areas vary and the terrain doesn't always allow for a closer stalk on a wary animal.

I grew up hunting terrain which did not allow you to get in closer than where the game came across or towards you. Yes it was alwasy better if it came in close but this was not always the case. I learned to accept this and worked accordingly. I knew my rifles and loads were plenty capable of this range for any of the game I hunted. So I practiced through the year to keep sharp on my skills, and knowing how the loads varied under certian conditions. This allowd me to be very precise when taking a shot into consideration. Not always did I shoot, but when I did, whatever was on the receiving end stayed put. The critters range from white tailed deer thru 200+ pound feral hogs to squirrels tearing up protien feeders.

I have in the past year extended my personal range somewhat to around 800yds. This is not necessarly to shoot a game animal, but rather a feral hog or varmint.

I have practiced the skills necessary, and under the right conditions on a calm unalerted animal I am very confident to this range. My rifle is grouping well under MOA for this range and the bullets used are packing more than enough punch for anything I will ever hunt with this rifle.

I was just curious about some of the rest of you, and your thoughts.

It is said that the bullet has enough retained energy at 800 yards to do the job. The rifle is accurate enough, and the shooter is proficient enough, so why not take the shot?

In all my hunting experiences, I have one incident that comes to mind that explains my view. I lived in Colorado for a few years. Late one season, and two hunting buddies and I went on a little excursion into the high country. We chained up all four wheels on the Toyota, and stayed on the dirt road which went way up on this high plateau. The snow became deeper, but someone was ahead of us, so they broke trail. It was a beautiful clear day, and we could see a mile or more in some places, because it was the typical Colorado high country elk terrain.

Fresh elk tracks were everywhere in the snow, as they were moving down, and we were in the corridor. Anyway, we came up on the truck ahead, and they were standing in the back of the truck blasting at a herd of elk that was in my estimation 800 - 1200 yards away, as they were running through 2-3 feet of snow.

I looked at the rifles later and listened to them brag about their long range capability. There were four guys, and two had 300 Win Mags, one was a 300 Weatherby, and one guy had an 8mm Rem. Magnum.

No elk went down within sight, yet they had shot at least 20 times. They were shooting when we first saw them, so I don't actually know how many shots were fired, but they reloaded more than once, and commented about not having enough ammo. It was all laughs and excitement after the last elk disappeared over the ridge.

We stayed a while, just to see how those guys planned to follow up, and retrieve their elk. Simply stated - they didn't. They merely said nothing fell so they must have missed. As a practical matter, it would have been very difficult to follow up on those elk, because the truck would have become stuck if driven off the road. Driving across high country meadows is rather unethical anyway, but other than getting stuck in the snow, I doubt it would have made any difference to those guys.

That experience pretty much sums up my thinking on people who say they are capable of making long shots.

There is a lot more that should be considered than merely the capability of the rifle/cartridge, and the fact that a shooter can shoot accurately enough.

I grew up in the South, and hunted creek/river bottoms, where long shots just don't happen. Only when the big comfee stands and bean fields became the trend, did long shots really become available. But, I'm talking about deer, hunted over the edges of cultivation, where it is possible to follow up the shot, and look for blood, and actually try to find the animal that ran off after the shot.

Now, I live in a place where long shots are possible, but the chance of losing the animal is very high, even if it goes down immediately. I have lost a few deer, on 100 yards or less shots, that I know were hit well - with a 338 - that I could not find. Of the two instances I remember, one was because the light was going away fast as evening approached, and the other was because I was pretty sure a brown bear had gotten the deer and was really close by, just being still until I went away. This thought was brought on by the aroma in the vicinity of where I thought the dead deer should be. Just the thought is spooky enough when you can't see ten feet through the bush. The vegetation is so thick that an animal can disappear like magic. They were frustrating learning experiences, being new to this terrain. I thought - blast them with a 338, so they fall right there, then where is the problem finding them? Well, it's not so simple.

Also, say the shot is 100 yards, in most places around here, unless a hunting buddy stands in the road or clearing and directs your retrieval path, the chances of walking directly to the dead animal is very low.

Also trying to find a downed deer in this bush, is something not recommended to do alone, because there are 1000 lb hunters looking for the same deer. They can smell the blood a long way off.

I pass up a lot of shots, and miss some opportunities, because I am constantly evaluating whether I have the will, ability and energy to go the last place the animal stood when I pulled the trigger. Around here, I limit my shots to those where the deer is very close (50 yards or less) or next to a clearing, or otherwise where I can access the spot fairly easily.

The best and most memorable deer hunting experiences around here in South Alaska have been where I found a comfortable knoll in the rain forest, and called in the buck to within 20 feet, and shot him in the head with my 375 H&H. There was no doubt of the hit and where the deer lay, and the excitement of seeing that deer come to my call was far better than a long range sniping ambush. It was more fun than my old days in the South, hunting the creek or river bottoms, and that's hard to beat.

The hunting scenario could be far different, hunting caribou for instance, on the tundra. If a long shot was taken there, follow up shots are possible, and you can see a long ways, so an animal hit can be seen to go down, and retrieved.

My point is that there is a lot more to consider beyond the rifle/cartridge/shooter capability. The primary other factor to be considered is whether you are willing to actually go look for the animal after the shot, whether you see it go down or not. Are you willing to assume you hit your target, especially since you justified taking the shot partly because you are such a good shot? Given that, why assume a miss if the animal doesn't fall immediately?

It may be that the reason they don't fall immediately is because of way reduced kinetic energy of the bullet, and perhaps it just doesn't open up, because the velocity at the long range is not within the design specs of the bullet.

I know I should just say what I mean plainly.

300 yards, or maybe just a little bit more, is about as far away as I generally feel comfortable shooting at unwounded big game animals. Here's why:

1. I don't have the confidence to shoot at them from farther away. I just don't have the opportunity to practice much beyond 200 yards.

2. I always zero at 200 yards (except for DG rifles, which I zero at 50 - but we're not talking about DG here, since DG should never be shot at extended ranges). Drop at 400 for a 200 yard zero is around two feet or more for most calibers. That's a lot of drop.

2. Wind drift in a mild breeze, say ten mph, is a foot and a half or so. And wind speed and direction over long range are difficult to gauge. At 400 yards, in a moderate and varying wind, you'll have to hold two feet high and a foot and a half to two and a half feet into the wind - in other words, you'll be aiming pretty far away from your real target.

3. Animals can move, and move fast. And if you're holding high enough and with enough Kentucky windage, you may not be aware that the animal has begun moving even as you are shooting. That is the recipe for a miss or a wounding shot.

4. Follow up shots are difficult and can be impossible.

5. Any intervening twigs or light brush can be difficult to impossible to see clearly at long ranges.

6. Following up an animal can be very problematic, depending on the intervening terrain and how fast and accurately one can get to where the animal was standing when it was shot.

7. In my experience, it is very seldom strictly necessary to shoot at even 300 yards, much less at longer ranges than that. I always prefer to try to get closer, if at all possible.

This is me and me only - although, as a general matter, on the basis of anecdotal evidence, I do think that too many hunters ignore these realities and bang away at animals that are much too far away.

Now, having said all of that, if I were in a situation where I just could not get closer, and if there was no wind to speak of, and the animal I wanted was standing broadside, in the clear, still as a statue, at 400 yards, and I had a rock solid rest . . . I would probably take the shot.

Depends on the conditions! If I see an average deer-size or larger target in the open, on a day with decent weather and little or no wind, and it presents a broadside or near broadside target, I'll take a shot out to 300 yards or so. This is IF I can get into a steady position, and the critter is standing still, or perhaps grazing slowly along. I killed a caribou once that was over 400 yards away, but was in my 20's then, and could hold 'em and squeeze 'em a lot better in those days!

On the other hand, if it's a bear or other potentially dangeous varmint, I want to be close enough to be SURE the shot will kill, and not just wound it.

Acceptable distance, is where you always is capable of putting every of 5 rounds inside a circle of 6" diameter (if the target is of whitetail size) and within a circle of 10" diameter (if target is elk size)
This is ofcourse from the actual shoting posibility intendet to use.

For some people the limit is 40 yd and for other 400yd The first is more common than the last.

A good statistic to test if you keep within your capacity, is if your succesrate is better than 90%. If not abowe 90% i think it is time to reevaluate.

Personaly i think the most exciting in a huntingsituation, is to get close enough to be 100% sure. Because after you pulled the trigger, the rest i just hard work and bragging.

Instead of taking a risky shot i pefere a goot picture

Free hand with no rest on Rockchuck size animals about 350 with a bypod or some kind of improvised rest 500 +.

I know exactly what my max range is. 1000 yrds. I made a one shot kill at 973 yards in 1970, confirmed by a F.O for the local artillary concern. His body and weapon was recovered latter that day. Shot was with a scoped Bolt action Rem. rifle. Thats the longest shot I ever made that was "officially" verified! Hence my log in name...

I think your comment accompanying your questions is right on. It depends upon the conditions. When hunting in the mountains in the Cape, the distances open up. But then there are few obstructions, and visibility is good after the shot. Down here in our Florida forest, its short. I know that I can hit reliably out to 300 yards with most of my rifles, but what I'll attempt is based upon the conditions. Kudude

It all depends on the condititions. Normally my range is dependant on where the animal is when shooting. Normally if the animal is that far away it could definately be a PITA to get to the animal let alone get him out after the shot. I had an extremely accurate 338 RUM that would consistantly shoot the 225 nosler accubond into a 10" circle at 600 meters off a bipod. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot at a carabou or moose at that range if out in the open tundra or somewhere I could keep an eye on him and locate him after the shot. Most of my hunting rifles have lower magnification scopes but I would still be comfortable out to 300 possibly 400 if conditions dictated.

I could have shot a moose this year that was 350-360 yards away but it would have taken me hours just to get over to where the moose was on the opposite mountainside, and the retreival would have been hell.

I was at the range this afternoon shooting at 300 and 400 yds off of shooting sticks and 200 yards standing. My rifle was a Rem 7 RSAUM.
There was a moderate yet consistent breeze blowing right to left.
Without compensating for the wind my shots were consistently drifting at 300 and 400 yds.
Could I hit a deer at 400 today? Yes.
Would I hit him where I wanted to? No.
Today my max distance would of been 250 yds.
On a calm day 450 max.
To date I have never had to shoot over 300 yds.
KC

I served as a sniper, and have quite some experience with long range shooting. What can be done on a good day in good conditions is amazing, all the way out to 1000 yrds.

As for game, 300 yards is a long shot on a good day.

To many things can go wrong, and when we looses the respect of the game we hunt, we loose our self respect - and serves the ass-h***s in PETA in stead.

I fired one shot to 600 yds and hit the bulls eye. I had a steady rest and there was no wind.

I think it depends on conditions.
If i could get a real steady rest, the wind would stop blowing and the target was not up or down to steep a hill I might reach out quite a ways with my STW or my long barreld 25,06.
But where i will hunting starting this saturday , my little robbie witch is supurbly acurate maxes out a 400 yards and thats is with Ideal conditions. I would hope to get within 300 yards even with a stump or fence to rest on...tj3006

Most of my rifle kills are less than 100 yards..the last 2 were both 210 yds. I limit myself to 250 yds or less. If they're further away than than, then I get closer. I enjoy the hunt far more than the kill and I want to be sure to put each animal down as cleanly and quickly as possible. I can shoot acceptably from field positions out to 300 yards. If I hunted from a bench, then the range would be longer. And since this is the internet, I am duty bound to say I have all my rifles shooting sub 2" groups at 1000 meters!

I know my limitations, I also have to make it a point to know the limitations of the rifle I am carrying.

While my .300 Wby can reach out and touch at over 400 yards easily - I can't - I stop at around 300 yds (with a steady rest and little or no wind). The same is true with my .375 H&H - I would stop at 300 yds (maybe even 250 yds)

My newest favorite is a Husky 9.3x62. The ballistics say the caliber should be a 300yd rifle but - I feel alot more comfortable staying at 200 yds - from 200 to 300 it just drops too much.

I have to find my limitations on each rifle I hunt with - they can vary.

Another issue I have to work with is this: My local shooting range maxs out at 300 yds so that the longest range I can practice consistantly.

*I'm looking forward to finding out what I can and cannot do with my new 7x57 soon*

That was a Great Question!!

My local range only goes out to 300 yards; it's very difficult for me to practice shooting at ranges further than that. Given that it's very windy in my area, I'd feel very uncomfortable shooting at unwounded game any further out than about 300 yards. Even a bit of wind blows the bullets around quite a bit. One of my favorite rifles is an Alpha Arms .308 with a 20 inch barrel and a Leupold 1.5x5 scope. I love the rifle for its trigger and handling characteristics, but 200 yards is about my max with that set up.

Back when I lived in Nevada, you could see for miles and I could shoot out to 600 yards at my local range. Nothing was too far in those days, but then I didn't hit as much as I shot ...

analog_peninsula

Depends on the size of the critter. Varmints are harder to hit than deer at the same range.

Assuming conditions are calm and I have a good rest, I feel confident on deer sized animals out to 400 and maybe a hair more depending on the load and accuracy of the rifle at hand.

Good Luck

Reloader

I learned about the 300 yard "magic" range limit back in the early 1980s and took it to heart. With a known rifle and known velocity you can zero for effective shooting out to a little past 300 yards. After that range you are into ballistics tables, exotic crosshairs and a helluva lot of practice, as is alluded to by the snipers who have responded. Sure, some varmint hunters score regularly past 500 yards, but they are shooting hundreds of rounds down range from rest positions. Yes, my own max shot ever was a Woodchuck at hair over 400 yards, and it took four rounds before I was on target. If I am shooting at any big game, like the kind I want to eat or hang on the wall, the limit is 300 yards.

My longest shot on game over the past 5-6 years was 165 yards. The longest I would consider is something in the 250-300 range, definately nothing over that.

Thank all of you people who limit yourselves to 350 yards or less. I too, have shot at 800, 900 and 1000 yards in competition (Palma) with iron (micrometer) sights and done very well, in a shooting jacket, cuff and sling, shooting glove and range flags at a known distance. I would have a tough time convincing myself to shoot at an animal under field conditions greater than 250 yards unless conditions were ideal and the cartridge used was capable of it.

THE longest shot on big game that I've ever bene presented with was ~420yards on a whitetail deer.

The deer was at a known distance because he was literally standing within 20 yards of a friends 400yard target stand.

I was using a 25-06 and handloaded 100gr nosler partitions
and the aspect angle of the animal near ideal and it was one of those bitter cold early december days where there wasn't even a hint of wind, so I took the shot.

The bullet landed within 4" of point of aim (There was just a bit of sunlight induced mirage) and the deer (after a short delay) crumpled in his own footprints "S-F-D".


With a similar flat shooting cartridge and similar wind conditions I'd take a similar shot with little hesistation.
Though against larger game I'd rather be using something with a bit more "downrange authority", like a 7mmMag
and Barnes TSX's.

Against lighter targets (antilope/whitetail) and and more or less known range I'd go mabey to 500yards, but only with rifles that I actually shoot at that distance
Hey, if I can splatter a chuck at 500yds with my 25-06
I can put a 100gr bullet into a 'lope's or deer's vitals at the same range.

With my 30-06? forget it, 350yds is as far as I'll go, because I simply don't have the optics on it, or the ballistics to feel confident with that rifle past 350yds.

AllanD

Primarily I hunt for elk in Northern Arizona. Long shots where I hunt generally won't exceed 250 to 300 yards. As my current elk rifle is a 30-06 I prefer to stay within 200 yards for terminal performance reasons and have rarely witnessed a need for anything much over 100 yards.

Assuming I am drawn next year for elk I plan on bringing a 340 Weatherby which will certainly increase the terminal performance but it is unlikely that I will have an opportunity over 300 yards. Generally speaking, shooting at the range, I keep within 1 to 2 inches on the 200 yard range so I feel very comfortable up to 300 yards.

With that in mind I still prefer to be within 200 yards to ensure I place the best shot I can, for such a magnificant animal deserves my best effort for a clean kill.

Ken....

I shoot deer and hogs at less than 100 yards due to being in heavy woods and quite often less than 50 yards. My rifles are .284 Winchester and 8X57 with Leupolds and are capable of MOA with my handloads and I am at shotgun range. Go figure.
A friend of mine constantly bragged of 350 to 400 yard kills, then one day I was with him when he killed a small buck. I stepped off 145 yards for his acclaimed 350 yard hit.

Whats the intended target and which rifle am I using?

Seriously this changes tremendously from situation to situation. Nate

I limit my shots to 300yds or less for the most part. I also shoot a lot and know how difficult shooting under the average hunting conditions can be. I'd rather not shoot then chance wounding a big game animal.

Up until now, I could practice out to 400 yds. I think I will be able to practice out to 600yd or so at my new farm!!!

I have taken two animals over 300yds. The longest shot was 380 at a whitetail doe from an incredible treestand and no wind.

For me, 400yds is about the top limit assuming no wind and a solid rest.

I figure when you stop bragging about the animal and focus on how far the shot was, it was too far.

My standard is the distance at which I can put every bullet into a target the size of a dessert plate (eight inches, mas or menos). This distance varies based on which tool I choose, what position I am shooting from, and what sort of day I'm having. I can shoot that well with the bow out to 40 yards or farther, but I'm much more comfortable with shots 30 yards and closer. Pistol, 50-100. My flintlocks, especially the smoothbore, are happiest this side of 75. Rifle with irons, 100-200. Back in the day, when my training was current, I've done good work with a scoped rifle out to a measured 400 meters, with whole class and the Old Man watching. My longest game shot with a rifle was 270 yards, and I was not especially pleased with the result of the first hit. These days I mostly hunt in a quiet little woods where shots are as likely measured in feet as in yards.

My longest shot to date that was a one shot kill is 250 yards on a cow elk, my partner lasered it for me. Longest shot I've take is around 450 yards on Pronghorn, it wasn't a clean shot and it took me the better part of two hours to get close enough to finish it off. Since that time I've kind of set a limit of 300 yards on any large game animals. To be honest I haven't taken very much big game on the plus side of 150 yards. I still try to take prarie dogs at longer ranges but I figure there are not too many wounding shots on them with a .22 center fire or larger caliber at 300+ yards if I connect with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Mke / Tx:

...I was just curious about some of the rest of you, and your thoughts.

I have made longer shots, but nowadays try to keep it within the maximum point-blank range of the rifles, about 325 yards for the 7mm magnum and 6mm-284. I shoot prone off a fanny pack with the same characteristics as the sandbag I use at a range, and walk away from poor setups and windy conditions. There is always tomorrow...

for my current rifle set up. on a nice calm day and a good rest maybe 400-500, but on the average hunting day, maybe 300 or less depending on the wind. in really bad conditions with high wind 100 maybe

Firstly I want to congratulate the AR posters on this topic for the restraint shown. Little bragging and a lot of sound advice on limiting the shots at game to well withing your known capabilities!

In my younger days I too had pulled of some long range shots. In particular one calm day in the Karoo when I had a lovely solid lying down rest over an embankment for a springbok culling hunt. I took a few practice shots at the top of a fencepost, paced off the distance in l-o-n-g strides to 350 meters and noted exactly how much drop the 150 grain bullets from a superbly accurate .270 win dropped. Back to my rest and wait for the springbok to come. That day I made 4 consecutive head shots on springbok at 350 meters with a hold-over of exactly one springbok ear length!

Nowadays I limit my shots to well within my abilities and rather take the challenge of stalking closer. Right now I honestly can't remember any shot taken at more than about 150 yards for the past few years. Most shots were taken after stalking to inside 100 yards on the Free State grass veldt! That I now consider a much better accomplishment than all the very long shots that I've made in former years.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

My longest shot was 880 yards give or take a few. Conditions were perfect and we knew the ground well. At that range the shot from my 338 Win was a complete pass thru. Now I realize antelope aren't tough animals to kill, but they are small in stature and mostly hair. Does that mean I'll shoot at that range every time? Certainly not!
In reality, a long shot for me is 400ish yards when conditions permit as I have complete confidence in my guns and the loads I've created. Conversly, I've also hunted in conditions where 200 yards would have been a gamble. I find that as time passes my self imposed shooting distances are becoming closer, not because of age or eyes, but because I varmint hunt less than in years past.
One of the most challenging shooting experiences I've had was with the 22 RF on outdoor targets at 100 yards where even a cloud will move your point of impact one calibre away. If that doesn't teach you something about elevation and windage, nothing else will.

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
Whats the intended target and which rifle am I using?

Seriously this changes tremendously from situation to situation. Nate

BigNate,

Your are using a 416 Rigby necked to 22 cal on custom 1917 Enfield. The intended target is the fly in the tip of a does nose 1600 yards away. You have your shooting sticks with you as well!

I sight my rifles in to max point blank range as determined by my chronograph. Then I practice out to about 400+- yds and keep my game shots around 200yds. To many things can go wrong at longer ranges and I think a fine animal desrves much better if I am to shoot him for sport. Doing it the way I do, I find a target about 8" in dia a peice of cake at 200yds. For field practice I've been using small paper plates, 5 1/2" dia.

Guess I should add, the reason for practicing at 400yds is that 200yds shooting becomes a breeze.

I pass up big game shots over 250 yds as I have too much stuff in the freezer now. However I like what Jorge said a while back on this topic that if he was on some big hunt and it was the last day and the last chance he would shoot further.

I will shoot as far as its safe on coyotes. Thats different.

250 yards or less. The game deserves a fast death and while people have one shot kills all of the time at longer ranges I just admit to myself that I haven't practiced enough at longer ranges to justify a good hit so I limit myself to 250 yards.

Most of my hunting was for pigs in the thick Palani Hills with a shotgun loaded with ball. 40 yards was the maximum. That said, I like hunting with a rifle with open sights only and would take a shot at a maximum of 150 yards with it, no more. That is the maximum range at which I am comfortable shooting with my rifle. Have no plan to use a scope or to shoot any animal at longer ranges - Midwestern hunting is not very different from hunting in South India.

I have learned to hunt as a youngster and have been taught to shoot only when the shot is going to be a clean fast kill or something of the kind. Game is something of a gift and I do love tenderloins and backstrap and some fat ribs! So I generally get in as close as the circumstance permits. I too have made some incredibly long shots but with a rifle such as the .375 RUM to make the kill-wonderful job.

As Uncle Ted says: LONG LIVE THE BEAST The BEAST IS DEAD!!! that is funny.