The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles My Classic 8x57 has arrivedGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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My 700 Classic 8x57 that I have been itching for for over a decade arrived yesterday. Unfortunately I can't afford to pick it up yet and will have to lay it away. The wood is typical straight grained "Classic" wood, nothing to write home about but handsome none the less, like all Classics. Trying to decide on a scope and am leaning towards the Nikon 3x9x40 Buckmasters right now. I'll eventually handload for it and take advantage of the cartridge's capabilities but in the meantime I have a bunch of the Remington factory loads I aquired years ago to burn up. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as far as accuracy. Accuracy used to be a given with Big Green but contemporary Remingtons can be "hit or miss". I'm STILL trying to find a consistently accurate load for my Classic 8mm Mag.! | ||
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Cabela's now has S&B 8x57 listed in the 2004 "Shooting" catalogue @ bulk pricing. It comes in an Ammo can, 200rds @ $109.99  It is the same load that Terry8mm described (196gr). At last, maybe "adult" loads for the 8X57 will catch the shooting public's attention. I hope this means that the 8x57 will finaly get the attention it deserves in the U.S. Maybe now Hornady will come out with 180gr & 200gr Interbonds! | |||
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Quote: I am not at all whether whether one should be happy about this. Their soft, disintegrating Torpedo-S bullet is really not well suited for hunting, IMHO, and will result either in much destroyed meat, or in crippled and escaping game. Yes, Sellier & Bellot also do offer a premium line with the blue Barnes-X bullets (so does Prvio Partizan with the GROM bullet), but this is hardly the load which you have had in mind, is it ? Regards, Carcano | |||
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I have mine on order but it hasn't come in yet. I already have some ammo loaded for it however. What gave me the 8mm bug (I did for a short period of time own a 8mm Rem mag) was I bought one of the m48's from Mitchells. I can't believe how well the thing shot despite the crummy, tiny little sights and my poor eyesight. I hope the new rifle does as well. So far, I haven't had any problems with the Classics I've bought. | |||
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Quote:Quote: The mere fact that there is now a "full power" loading for the 8X57 available from a highly recognized (U.S.) retail source is reason enough for rejoicing. The availability of the high quality (as far as overall condition) "unissued" M48 Yugos that are flooding the U.S. market as well as the decision of Remington to chamber the 2004 "Classic" in 8x57 will also help in acceptance of the so far neglected but excellent cartridge in the U.S. of A. My real hope is that more U.S. bullet makers will start making their "premium" bullets in .323 caliber. Are you listening Hornady? How about a 180gr and 200gr "Interbond? Either of these would be excellent for handloading 8mm-06, 8mm-06 A.I. and 8x68S.(as well as the 8x57, 8x60 and 8x64 of course) | |||
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Hornady makes a 195gr interlokt, and Nosler makes a 200gr partition. | |||
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I just ordered some 185 grain Remington CoreLokt spitzers but I think I'll be ordering some Partitions too. | |||
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I don't know what bullet Carcano is referring to, the loads I've been shooting are working great on 200lb.+ whitetails. I've taken 8 or 9 with it, from every angle and get great penetration. Expansion is running about 30-30% with right around 90-95% weight retention. | |||
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Quote:Quote: I am afraid I don't understand you too well. Full power 8x57 IS hunting ammo has been available on the US market for MANY decades. My last Norma box I bought in the USA. Why would inferior ammo with a weak bullet that is not really suited for larger game (*if* Cabela's choice is indeed the Torpedo-S) be a reason to rejoice ? It would rather discredit the cartridge, I am afraid. :-( Carcano | |||
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You mean you can buy store-bought, ready-rolled ammo for guns? Dang, what'll they think of next.  | |||
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Hello SCGunnut, I share your misgivings about recent Remingtons being hit or miss. I want this years Classic so bad I can taste it, and will buy one since it's the Classic model. I have two Classics from previous years, and they are both excellent, very accurate rifles. I already have an 8x57, a German 1916 mauser, but the safest place to stand is right in front of it. Most of the German rifles that saw service in both wars are pretty well shot out I think. This one is. We should be able to load the Classic up to it full potential. That's one of the strongest actions around. I certainly wish you well with yours. Best wishes. Cal - Montreal | |||
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Quote:Quote:Quote: As usual Mr carcano in his effort to seem superior to us folks on this side of the pond (and everyone else for that matter) has missed the point. The post you are quoting said "a highly recognized (U.S.) retailer" as in Cabella's. Perhaps your Lordship purchased the said "Norma box" @ Walmart or perhaps since it was many decades ago it was Sears & Roebuck or "Monkey Ward's? Maybe it was Western Auto or K Mart. But, you now what Dustin Hoffman said in "Rainman", K Mart sucks! Perhaps you should have ended you post at "I'm afraid I don't understand". | |||
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Ah, somebody else noted that too... Sad really, there seems to be a lot of great knowledge, but it can get a bit much to digest when served with the usual condescending side dishes. I honestly think that is a pity. - mike | |||
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Quote: As far as scopes go do not leave out the Sightrons! Nice What loads have you tried in your 8mm Mag? Try 220 Sierra with 80 gr H4831 or RL 22 and 83 gr RL 25. Good for 3000-3100 fps and nice accuracy. Please work up! | |||
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Quote:Quote: Yes, I indeed did . And with just a wee bit of astuteness - which your rebuttal, alas, lacked - you would have scored an easy hit. So, I'll just have to shoot my own crow to eat... *boom*... and here it is, on the plate: My assumption that Sellier & Bellot might offer their Torpedo-S load in the USA was wrong; it was a 50 % chance among their two 196 grains 8mm bullets, but the cartridges pictured in Cabela's online catalogue are just the plain simple soft points (with a cutting edge on the jacket, a SWC if you want). This is a decent plain load, suitable for many hunting applications, which does not exihibit the prohibitory shortcomings of the Torpedo-S. Carcano | |||
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carcano: I fear you are still missing the point.  Nobody was chastizing you for making an error asto the quality of aformentioned S&B loads that are listed in the 2004 Cabela's "Shooting" catalogue. In this country one is hard pressed to find ANY 8x57 ammunition "on the shelf". About the only time that some could be located was when perusing a gun shop that has been in business for at least 30yrs or more. Occasionaly in an establishment that has various dusty boxes of some of the less poular calibers (in the U.S)one or possibly two boxes of the patheticly loaded Remington 170gr roundnoses can be found. I realize that this may be hard for you to understand as the 8x57 is enormously popular in Europe. Granted U.S. mail order houses have carried the S&B ammo for some time but, this is the first time I have seen European loaded (full power) 8x57 ammunition priced so attractively in an ad that almost "jumps out" of the page. Obviously Cabela's must think that there is going to be quite an increase in interest for this graet albeit ignored (in the U.S.) cartridge if they are willing to go to the considerable expense of placing such an attractive ad. As I mentioned, it it probably due to the attention (good or bad) that "Mitchells Mausers" has generated. And now, with the 2004 700 "classic" being chambered in 8x57 there can't help but be even more interest. I hand load my own 8x57 to 30-06 pressure levels. I believe this is slightly higher than the CIP standfard, but not enough to argue. I myself will not be purchasing any S&B 8x57 ammo from Cabela's, I have no need to. In the U.S., bullet makers only make 8mm bullets in limited variety. Although there are some excellent bullets available in 8mm, the choice is still limited from U.S. manufacturers, and European bullets are prohibitively expensive for somobody that may go through several 100 bullets experimenting. My budget does not allow me to buy 1000s of bullets @ a time to get a good price. I usually call the local gun shop and have them get me 200-300 bullets @ a time. An increase in the poularity of any 8mm cartridge in the U.S. should (a) increase the choice of bullet types,(b) decrease the prices and (c) increase the likelyhood of finding 8mm bullets and loaded ammo "on the shelf" You always seem to have a hard time grasping the fact that (any) 8mm caridge have historicaly been "orphans" in this country. Not only that, but your (perhaps unintentional) condescending tone takes away from your sometimes, make that often, excellent technical information. I will admit though that the "side dishes" (as one poster put it) have been somewhat easier to digest than they once were. | |||
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Quote: This is correct, as to my lack of understanding for the historical situation (it is different today, different from your rendering too, but that's another posting). Yes, I still don't understand that Winchester and Remington did once chamber their rifles in 7x57, 7,65x53 and 9x57 (!), but not in 8x57IS. Regards, Carcano | |||
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SCGunnut, Does your new Classic have the J-lock on the bolt shroud? | |||
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Pop, In my 8 Mag, I've tried the Sierra 220, the Speer 200, the Remington 185 and the Barnes 180 X, with RL-22, IMR 4831, IMR 4350 & H5010. I've got some Sierra 175s but haven't shot them yet. I've been meaning to try some of the Ballistic Tips too but kind of lost interest in the rifle and put it on the back burner. I'm mainly looking for a fast deer load with a 175-200 gr. bullet. I've gotten a few spectacular groups {especially with the 220 Sierra} but have found no true consistency. The old 185 factory load shoots decently and my handloads with the same bullet have shown promise but I've never found that magic recipe that drives tacks group after group. The 180 X and Speer 200 shoot patterns rather than groups. I'm going to try a few more bullets, including the new 195 Hornady and a few more powders this Spring and see what I can come up with. I glassed the stock hoping there was a bedding problem but accuracy didn't improve much, if any. If all else fails, I'll rebarrel it. I might also slap a different scope on it to rule out any possible scope problems. It wears a Pentax Lightseeker 3-11x44 that I bought new with the rifle. I doubt the scope is the culprit but one never knows with rifles. BTW, yes the 8x57 has the stupid lock like all new Remingtons. I just throw the keys away and pretend the lock isn't even there. | |||
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i, too, second the straight classic 4 power scope suggestion. as for handloads: imr 4064 + 185-grain corelokts or 200-grain speers + RP brass + cci 200 primers = excellent hunting loads. | |||
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My 8 Mag runs best with 220 gr Hornadies, and 81.5 gr of H4831SC. Good for 3100 fps from a 26" barrel, and MOA accuracy. - Dan | |||
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Quote: SC: It's your gun and you're certainly welcome to mount whatever scope you like on it, but an Asian variable just doesn't seem right for a "classic" American gun in a "classic" European caliber. A straight 4x would be fully sufficient for the size game you would tackle with your 8x57, so why don't you look for a pristine used Weaver K-4 or cherry Leupold (nice Teutonic name!) M-8 to mount on it and keep its "classic" flavor truer? Just a suggestion, and if you want to toss it in the "round file" my feelings won't be hurt. Anyway, I hope you enjoy that new rifle! | |||
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Quote: IMR 4064 works very well with 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. When loaded to 3.150 COL, I get 2800fps with 49gr 4064 This is with cases formed from "G.I." "06" brass and cci primers. The rifle is a "42" vintage K98. (with all mathching #s and untouched Nazi markings) All the metal is pristine, but unfortunatly the stock has been "Bubbaed"  | |||
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I toyed with the idea of a 4x on this rifle. I like 4x scopes and have quite a few of them along with low range variables but I typically reserve them for my brush guns. The 8x57 is hardly a flat shooting super magnum and if I intended to stay with the watered down American ballistics I'd be perfectly happy with a 4x. However, handloads will push the old 8 into the realm of the .308/.30-06 class and that's why I'm leaning towards a variable with a little higher end. These days it seems like I hardly ever see deer in good shooting light. If all my chances came when there was plenty of good light, I'd still be fine with a 4x, even with hotter handloads. Seems like shots in good light are few and far between for me. One afternoon in December I was sitting in a road stand where I could see perhaps 150 yards. I was carrying my CZ 9.3x62 with a Sightron 1.5-6x42. Right at O-Dark-Thirty, I was about to come out of the stand and I took one more look down towards the corn pile. Something looked out of place and I finally realized it was a deer (a doe I believe}. If it had come out into the sandy road, I likely could have seen well enough to shoot but it was back against the brush line where it blended in and I just couldn't clearly define the target at 6x. I could have probably aimed center mass and done the deed but I refused to pull the trigger when I couldn't clearly see the shoulder. A day or two later I sat the same stand and carried a rifle with a 3x9 and I could see much more detail at 9x than I had at 6x. So, since I intend to push the throttle forward on the 8mm and use it for varied conditions {rather than just as a woods gun}, I figured a little more magnification wouldn't be a bad thing. Actually I considered a fixed 6x but that might be a little much if a deer walks out at rock throwing distance in the swamp. I guess a 2x7 or 2.5x8 might be a better choice in variables than the 3x9 on this rifle but that's splitting hairs. It'll be awhile before I pick this rifle up anyway so I have plenty of time to mull it over. Who knows what I'll end up putting on it. BTW, the reason I was leaning towards the Nikon is because the finish closely matches the gun's finish. I know it sounds silly but I'm very anal about matching my scopes and mounts to the gun's finish. The Remington blueing is not a high gloss blue like a Weatherby but it's not matte either. Remingtons used to have a much more glossy blue and my old Classic .350's blueing is much glossier than is seen on recent models. I put several scopes against the rifle and the Nikon looks right at home. While the Nikon is "matte", it's more of a satin finish than the stark "parkerized" type finish of most matte scopes. Of course nobody but me would give a tinker's damn about such minute details. I'm anal only in that way, yeah right! Like I said, who knows what I'll end up slapping on it in the end. | |||
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I have a 3-9x42 Kahles that has the "Satin" (matte)finish. It is the "American" series with 1" tube and non magnifying reticle. It beats my Nikon Monacch UUC all to hell in low light circumstances. There's a spot in my cut-over woods that the deer come out right @ last light. It is 230yds from my tri-pod. I can distinguish antlers etc @ that distance way past legal shooting times. I have taken 8 Whitetails @ ranges from 190yds to 235yds in this situation over the last 3 years with the Kahles scope on two different rifles, a "customized" K98 in 8mm-06 A.I. and a M700 in 280 Rem. Some of them disappeared in the "orange fireball"  if ya know what I mean. You might want to give the Kahles a look. It has awesome optics for the money, and I think it has the "satin" look you are after. | |||
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A 9x scope doesn't gather more light than a 6x does it?????? All things being equal, I thought it went the other way. I have a 1x6 on a .300WM that I use on elk in dark timber and I've never had a light problem as such. I agree that shooting down from a tree stand is hard from a light point of view but I think it is because the area that you're shooting into is darker than where you're sitting and it kinda screws up your eye pupil. I've sat in tree stands thinking it was not very dark and then gotten down to discover it was damn dark. | |||
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I see magazine articles all the time that talk about the light gathering power of a rifle scope. I'm not an expert in optics but it seems that it is common to confuse light gathering power, resolving power, and magnifying power when talking about rifle scopes (which really are telescopes, of course). Here's some good information about the three powers of a telescope for those that might be interested or find it interesting. It is from the realm of astronomical telescopes but the principles are the same. Light Gathering Power http://www.astronomynotes.com/telescop/s6.htm Resolving Power http://www.astronomynotes.com/telescop/s7.htm Magnifying Power http://www.astronomynotes.com/telescop/s8.htm Just thought some people might find it informative.... -Bob F. | |||
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Quote: I believe a thing called "twilight factor" comes into play here. In two scopes of equal optical quality that have the same size "exit pupil" (objective lens diameter divided by magnification) the higher magnification scope will have the highest "twilight factor" provided the optics are of equal quality. It is accepted wisdom that an exit pupil larger than 5mm will not be of any advantage as the human eye cannot admit the extra light because of the diameter of the pupil of the human eye. Therefore, if this theory is correct, the optimum objective diameter for a 9x scope is 45mm, a 7x 35mm, a 6x 30mm, a 4x 20mm etc. So, if you are using anything less than 10x, a 50mm objective lens is a wasted incumberance. I have noticed that with the 3-9x42 Kahles, when it starts to get really dark, turning the power down slightly (to 8x?) seems to brighten up the image ever so slightly, but it could hardly be considered noticeable. These observations were made from an elevated stand across distances of up to 300yds in cut over (not clear cut) timber. I have made this observation on numerous occasions when it was getting too dark (beyond legal hours) and I was preparing to leave. | |||
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Hello Beemanbeme, What calibers do you have the Remington Classics in? I have them in .17Rem. and 6.5x55. Both are excellent rifles. I know a lot of people seem to be having difficulties with the newer Remingtons, but I don't think that includes the Classic line. I don't know why. I just hope it doesn't change because I also have an 8x57 coming. The j-lock doesn't bother me. I can live with it. However, I can't live with that damn 8 lb. trigger pull. It's obscene. Best wishes. Cal - Montreal | |||
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Good morning Cal, geez, its -2F this morning with white stuff covering everything. And, compared to you, I'm way down south. I envy you and your 6.5 Classic everytime you post about it. Right now, I have a .300WM, .223, 7-08, .300Sav and the 8mm on order. I really like them. The understated profile and oil finish (I guess matte finish, properly speaking)suit me to a "T". I never was a Weatherby fan. Have you seen any pictures of the "C"DL Remington? It seems a blend of the Classic and the BDL. I, for one, won't mourn the passing of Rem's bowling ball finish despite the fact that its quite durable. Have a good 'un. John | |||
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