OK, I'm looking at moving up to a 30-cal, previously had a ruger 243, and still have an old Norwegian Krag in 6.5x55 that I refuse to part with. I'm looking to get a truly modern, up-to-date rifle in a good 30-cal, that I can use on just about every game we have either in Texas or Norway, the two places I spend most of my time.

Some rifles I have looked at;
Sako 85 Grey Wolf in 300WSM
Browning A-bolt Stainless Synthetic in 300WSM
Weatherby Mark V (confused as to which one) in either 300 Weatherby, Win mag, or some such

I pulled open a 300 wsm case the other day and found it was loaded with LESS powder than a 300 win mag (both were 150 grn ballistic tips), do they really have comparable velocity?

Thanks in advance

Or any other recommendations you might make

IMO the finest .30 caliber I've ever owned is a M-70 featherweight in .30-06. It's a great cartridge and rifle worthy of hunting big game anywhere on the planet.

Do they still make the model 70, I couldn't find any that were of the CRF variety, much less a featherweight.

right now that rifle must be found on the used market.

Mine is a pushfeed and for a non DG rifle it's as good as a CRF!...finding one in Norway might be a tad difficult.

Also look at Remington's mountain rifle in .30-06

It's also a light rifle and a great gun.

30-06 is the best.

Ruger 77, Win 70, or Rem 700 for me. But I don't have experience with Savage or imported Mauser based rifles.

Oh yeh, I have had perhaps 5 or 6 Springfields O3-A3 and O3-A1 and I liked them. The only problem I have seen with the Springfields is a weak firing pin spring. But I were that old my firing pin spring would be weak too.

The 30-06 is the old reliable 30 cal with lots of ammo available. The 300 Win has a little more power and so does the 300WSM. The 300WSM is very popular and a lot of rifles are chambered for it. The SAKO 85 would be a nice one.

Baron, first of all I will say that I like the short mags. I think the cartridges have merit for some uses. Having said that, I have several, including a Sako 85 Grey wolf in 270 WSM. I can tell you that feeding issues are a reality with these cartridges. I have a couple of WSM's that feed smoothly AND reliably, but they are the exception rather than the rule on stock rifles. I am not enough of a gunsmith to get the ones that have feeding issues sorted out myself, and in fact tend to use these rifles less because I haven't gotten these issues sorted out by someone else.

The '06 length action Sako 85's I have (3 of them) feed flawlessly. I would tell you that the 30-06 wins this race handsdown. In light for 30 cal loadings, the WSM does great, but not so muych in the heavier weight bullets IME.

The '06 will not get you as much speed as the WSM, but will be plenty sufficient for hunting anything you come across in Texas or Norway (unless they have dangerous bears in Norway...)

The '85 is a fine choice, and all of the 4 I have shoot extremely well with little to no load development. Two of them are .270's and they both shoot an honest .50 at 100 yards, with a couple of loads each. I would go to the '06, scope her up and get to shooting.

Good Luck--Don

Buy the Sako in 30-06, top it with the best glass you can afford, and be done with it. You'll have a fine rig worthy of any hunt in the lower 48.

I am with the 06 crowd.
Pick a rifle you like , I am partial to mausers Model 70s and sakos.
But I like rugers and Czs too. Although a tad on the heavy side a CZ550 American in 30,06 would be a great and versutal hunting rifle.
...tj3006

My vote would be for the Sako, and although I am not a 30 caliber fan, if you are set on 30 caliber, the 30-06 would be my choice.

I've shot most of the lesser thirties, and the short and regular 300's, but not the RUM or Weaterby. I don't see a whole lot of difference between the 06 and the 300's that I have shot. Maybe an couple inches at 300 off the bench, but I don't shoot as well as some, so in the field, all I seem to get is more weight and recoil. The 06 seems to be the best for me. Others may find different results. I suggest you get the same rifle that you currently use in an 06. Hunting is 23 hours, 59 minutes and 58 seconds of looking around and two seconds to get your act together and get it done. Keep it to instinct.
Bfly

I would pick the caliber in this order:

30-06
300 Winchester mag
300 Weatherby
300 WSM

I think the WSM calibers are likely to be a fad, and that loads and brass for them will become scarce in years to come.

There's nothing in the USA, Canada, or Norway that has not been killed successfully, many times, with a 30-06, and loads and brass for it are available everywhere. It also kicks less, makes less noise and blast, and is generally more pleasant to shoot than any of the others. If you want a magnum -- and there's really no good reason you should -- the Winchester mag gives about 200 f.p.s. more velocity than the 30-06.

The Weatherby mag is the most powerful of the lot, and has been used successfully everywhere in the world. It gives about 400 f.p.s. more velocity than the 30-06, but, of course, uses a lot more powder to do so. It also produces substantially more kick, noise, and blast. It's a bit like the muscle cars of the 1960s, with 427 cubic inch engines and tail fins.

As for the rifle itself, handle as many of them as you can, and get the one that handles best for you or that otherwise appeals most to you.

I would go with a 30/06 in a Remington with a 700 Action. They are very acturate.

I'd look for a new or used Winchester Model 70 in either push or controlled feed in a 30/06. I have a M70 Lightweight pushfeed in 30/06 that I've had since 1986. I've shot thousands of rounds through it and hunting in rough country and bad weather and it has performed flawlessly I also have Model 70's that are controlled feed and there is no difference in their reliability. An advantage that the 30/06 has over the magnums is that you can put four or five down in the magazine and have one in the chamber for 5 or 6 total in your rifle. A magnum gets 2 or 3 down one up and thats it! Ammo is everywhere for the '06 and killing power is plenty. I've taken a Bull Elk at 425 yards one shot with 180 grain Sierra bullets, a large Mule deer at over 350 yards also one shot same bullet, Bighorn Sheep at 300 yards and a Mountain Goat at 21 paces! On top of that I've taken dozens of Deer and Elk and coyotes and Antelope from 35 yards to 200 yards and the 30/06 never fails to perform. It is the worlds most popular cartridge and has been around 100 years for good reason. It would compliment your 6.5x55 nicely and Winchesters 3 position safety is "the Daddy"!
Good Luck on your decision.

I've owned the short mags and regular mags, I'd take the regular WM anyday. Personal preference I guess. I think you'll find the 300WSM to be alittle faster than a 06 but, not quite as fast as the WM.

Like others have said, you cant go wrong with an plain ole' 30-06. I'd get the 06 in a Sako or Tikka.

I'd say that the majority of all game is taken at less than 300 yards even by very experienced shooters. At those distances the 30-06 will hang with the best of them. Load a 165 NAB or XXX and you'd be set for just about any animal short of the dangerous game.

Good Luck

Reloader

30-06

the .30-06 has been used successfully for a hundred yrs now and should be a strong consideration. the thutty aught six will be able to do most of your hunting anywheres in the world and ammo is readily available. Be a good bet.

.308 Win, .30-06, .300 Savage, .300 Win Mag, .300 RUM, and .300 Weatherby are a few .30 caliber rounds that are very popular and are obtained fairly easily everywhere. I would pass on the new .300 WSM for their feeding issues.

Do you have restrictions on the use of military calibers for civilian sporting use in Norway? If so, then the .30-06 (7.62x63mm) is out, as would be the .308 Win (7.62x51mm), which no one has mentioned. The .30-06 is, of course, the most versatile caliber of all the 30s. You can find factory ammo for it from 125gr to 220gr.

Having said that, my only rifle is a custom .300 Win Mag. Factory ammunition for it can be found worldwide.

150, 165, 180, 190 and 200gr rounds are all available for it and that's versatile enough for my needs.

M70 or Sako 30-06

Roland

Fact is, it's tough to beat the 30-06. There are better varmint and big game rounds out there, but when multipurpose use is the order of the day no one single cartridge has done as well as the 30-06. A hand loaders dream, the 30-06 also has the good fortune of having a large variety of readily available factory ammunition.

The way I see it, if you choose the 30-06, you will have had a much tougher time selecting the rifle and scope then you did in selecting calibre.

I have to go with my two favorite .30's the 30-06 or the .300 Win mag.

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:
I would pick the caliber in this order:

30-06
300 Winchester mag
300 Weatherby
300 WSM

I think the WSM calibers are likely to be a fad, and that loads and brass for them will become scarce in years to come.

There's nothing in the USA, Canada, or Norway that has not been killed successfully, many times, with a 30-06, and loads and brass for it are available everywhere. It also kicks less, makes less noise and blast, and is generally more pleasant to shoot than any of the others. If you want a magnum -- and there's really no good reason you should -- the Winchester mag gives about 200 f.p.s. more velocity than the 30-06.

The Weatherby mag is the most powerful of the lot, and has been used successfully everywhere in the world. It gives about 400 f.p.s. more velocity than the 30-06, but, of course, uses a lot more powder to do so. It also produces substantially more kick, noise, and blast. It's a bit like the muscle cars of the 1960s, with 427 cubic inch engines and tail fins.

As for the rifle itself, handle as many of them as you can, and get the one that handles best for you or that otherwise appeals most to you.

I agree. I have had well over a dozen 30-06's and I love the 06. I also have a 300 Win Mag plus several smaller 30 calibers. (That 300 Winchester is also a fine shooting rifle, but don't shoot it much. I use larger caliber rifles for elk and such.) I would pick a 300 Weatherby over the short fat cartridges for several reasons. The first would be feeding. If a person ever had the desire to work the action fast for repeat fire feeding becomes very important. A rifle that does not feed cartridges well is not worth much, IMO. Having problems with feeding is not so uncommon a prolem with the short fat cases, I have heard.
The one minor complaint I have about the 300 Win is neck length. The longer neck length of the Weatherby is one of the other reasons I would pick a Weatherby over the short fat cases.

There is absolutely nothing about the SAUM or the WSM cases that is attractive to me.

Baron, you are over in the area where IMHO the absolutely best-ever .30-caliber cartridge was developed: the .308 Norma Magnum. Ballistically it's incredibly efficient, is wonderfully accurate, and is ballistically a twin to the much more popular 300 Winchester Mag, but isn't limited by the short neck the .300 WM has. Additionally, it is an easily handloaded cartridge. One can even form cases if necessary...

Buy an '06 in your favorite action, and have someone run a Norma Mag reamer into it. We have some critters here in TX that, albeit imported, justify the use of something bigger than a standard '06, in my estimation. The Norma will launch a 200-grain bullet at 2900 fps. The '06 doesn't come close...

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Baron, you are over in the area where IMHO the absolutely best-ever .30-caliber cartridge was developed: the .308 Norma Magnum. Ballistically it's incredibly efficient, is wonderfully accurate, and is ballistically a twin to the much more popular 300 Winchester Mag, but isn't limited by the short neck the .300 WM has. Additionally, it is an easily handloaded cartridge. One can even form cases if necessary...

The problem with that advice is that, however good the .308 Norma Mag is (and I agree that it is very good indeed), it's almost unknown in North America and you will have a difficult time finding ammo for it. If you reload, you will have trouble finding brass. If you go on a hunt and your ammo somehow gets lost or separated from you, it will be near-impossible to replace it, etc. Why set yourself up for trouble that you don't need?

quote:

The problem with that advice is that, however good the .308 Norma Mag is (and I agree that it is very good indeed), it's almost unknown in North America and you will have a difficult time finding ammo for it. If you reload, you will have trouble finding brass. If you go on a hunt and your ammo somehow gets lost or separated from you, it will be near-impossible to replace it, etc. Why set yourself up for trouble that you don't need?

Well, LLoyd, it is like this: Grafs sells components for the 308 Norma (among others), and the cases are very easily formed from either 7MM RM brass or .338 WM brass, if you have to resort to that. Oh, and by the way, Midway sells the brass too, and they sell 180-grain magnum .308 projectiles as well.

Truthfully, I expect the guy to be able to figure out how to get here with the ammunition. It isn't that hard; airlines aren't in the business of losing baggage. It happens, I will grant you. But it is rare.

Finally, less than a month ago, I bought four boxes of brand new Norma 180-grain softs off a firearms website. That is enough to last the normal hunter several years, even if he shoots a box a year. And the smart hunter retrieves his brass...

If one is lazy, he won't bother to look. But if you look, or truly want to find the components, they are out there. The factory ammunition is as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:

...if you look, or truly want to find the components, they are out there. The factory ammunition is as well.

That's true.

But is the .308 Norma Mag sufficiently better than the .300 Win Mag that it warrants going through all that extra trouble and effort? I don't think so.

My final question stands: Why set yourself up for trouble that you don't need? Especially when there is a widely-available and common alternative -- the .300 Win Mag -- that does everything the .308 Norma Mag will do?

Because some of us dream in color, Lloyd... Some of us just want to be a bit different, and sometimes it costs just a LITTLE bit.

3 - 6

I've been reloading the .300Winnie every since it came out and have yet to have any problems with that horrid, short neck that folks that just MUST have something to whine about whine about.
Other than it doesn't fit the conventional wisdom of one calibre, what is your problem with it? Apparently the conventional wisdom is wrong.

First .30 caliber? .30-06. Not even close. If you don't want to spend alot of money on a rifle, look into the Weatherby Vanguard or a Remington.

Otherwise buy a Sako or a Sauer.