What is the difference between a 7mm STW and a regular 7mag? "cause I think a 7RM should have been one of your choices.

.338 lapua, proven track record on humanoid targets to very long range.
C.G.B.

quote:

.338 lapua, proven track record on humanoid targets to very long range.
C.G.B.

I didn't see "Humanoids" on the list! :-)

wasbeeman,
I did not include the 7mmRem.Mag. for my own reasons.


cgbach,

The .338LM was not among the choices.

George

quote:

What is the difference between a 7mm STW and a regular 7mag?

With factory loading the STW is about 200fps faster with a 160gr. Less with handloads.

When you choose a caliber and bullet combination, be aware of what energy it will still have at the 400 yard intended range, not at the muzzle.

I think the 300 ultra, 338 ultra, 340, 30-378, 338-378, 338 lapua, ect are all pretty close out to 1000 yard shots. I'd be looking for a sub moa gun and develop a good load.

I'd go 7mm

Some are a bit flatter but I voted for the .338 and with 225 grain bullets at 400 yards the difference in trajectory is marginal.

But I shot a .300 Win for years using a 200 grain Speer boattails that was a stomper also.


Cal30

I chose the .300 Win. Mag. The last time I hunted elk here in Arizona was 8 years ago Just can't draw a damn tag. Shot was across a very wide park (Open area)at a laser measured 530 yards. The 200 gr. Speer Hot core hit just behind the shoulder resulting in a high lung shot. The cow elk dropper and kicked for a few seconds, then expired.
Velocity for my handload was 2930 FPS from the 26" barrel of my Winchester M70.
Usually I have the magazine fulled with the Speer load and a 200 gr. Nosler up the spout. If the shot is 200 yards or les I use the Nosler load but is psat 200 yards and I have time, I'll switch to the Speer load. The Nosler load hit within one inch of the Speer load at 200 yards so it's good to go and I can go with either load.
When I do draw the "rare" elk tag, I usually hunt area #1 in Arizona where when the first shots ring out, the elk head out into these very wide "parks" and just lie down. They can see a hunter coming for miles.
My shot was right at 8 in the morning. H herd was sneaking out into this park that was maybe two miles wide and probably ten miles long. I'd spotted them just by accident and was in a position to stalk up to the last little bit of cover, and small bush. Conditions were great. The elk were not disturbed to any degree that I could tell, no wind and due to all the practice I'd been doing with that rifle out to 500 meters, I had a darn good idea about where to hold. I shot, heard a dull poof as the gun went off and if the gun kicked I did not feel it. The cow elk on the other hand gave a big jerk when the bullet hit, staggered a few feet then fell and kicked out her last.
You might not want to use a bullet that heavy but it did work for me.
Paul B.

I went the .300 Weatherby.

Not because of any ballistic reasons or because I'm a weatherby 'nutta', but I have seen ammo for it in just about every gun shop I have visited oveseas. If you don't have a weatherby, now is a good reason to get (at least) one.

It's a close call between the .300 Win and .338 WIn.

I eliminated the .300 WBY due to its freebore and radiused shoulder tending to make it less accurate than cartridges without these features. I eliminated the 7mm STW due to elk being on the list, and elk at 400 yards, although quite "doable" with a 7mm, a little confidence is lost due to the smaller bullet.

Between the .300 WIN and .338 WIN, I would choose the .338 if the quarry were solely elk. I have personally taken springbok with a .338 at 400 yards, but the .300 WIN has a bit of an advantage when you don't need the bulk of the .338, so the .300 WIN is my top pick.

Truth be known, choosing between the four cartidges is mostly a parlor game because there is little that one will do on these animals that another won't.

Inside 400 yards or so, I would lean towards the .338 WM, shooting one of the heavier accubonds.

But, here's an idea - and maybe you've already chewed on it - the 8mm Rem Mag.

Yes, bullets are far more limited, and brass would be expensive.

But, inside 400 yards, even inside 500, I think it would hit real hard - maybe harder than the 338 - and probably have a flatter trajectory too.

Well, enjoy the new rifle, and have fun!

friar

.300wm

Why? Because that has been my caliber since 1974. Ammo available worldwide. Everything from Cape Grysbok to Livingstone Eland, Kaibab Mule Deer to Rocky Mountain Elk. Shots to beyond 400 yards with primarily 180gr. Swift A-Frames. I do consider it a bit light for Eland, but it will do. Oh, and I use solids on the little guys.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:


Truth be known, choosing between the four cartidges is mostly a parlor game because there is little that one will do on these animals that another won't.

Quite a range of quarry and a shorter range than I perhaps expected from the thread title, a .270 would do just fine I should expect.

Amir,
I doubt I would use a .270 on elk at any distance. Even cow elk tend to be larger than red stags (let alone the hinds).


Th impetus for this poll is that I have rifles chambered in each of the above (and more, of course ), and lean toward divesting myself of those I don't have any use for.

George

Sorry George, None of the above. My nod goes to the 7MM RUM or 300 RUM. I just don't like belts any more.

Any of the choices will work fine for just 400 yds.

God Bless, Louis

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Amir,
I doubt I would use a .270 on elk at any distance. Even cow elk tend to be larger than red stags (let alone the hinds).


Th impetus for this poll is that I have rifles chambered in each of the above (and more, of course ), and lean toward divesting myself of those I don't have any use for.

George

George,

The minimum calibre for shooting large deer in the UK is effectively a 243 and I would confidently wager more red stags have fallen to that calibre in the last decade or so than any other. It is accepted that these will have been almost invariably broadside or neck shots, but nevertheless it works and works well. On that basis I would not hesitate in using a .270 with loaded with something like 150 grain partitions or TSX'es on a bull elk on the same sort of shot presentation. I would of course prefer something bigger, I prefer something bigger ( and slower ) for 20kg roe, but in consideration of the likely ratios of the number of each species to be shot, something in the range of a 270-30'06 would be just fine.

If it's a question of which of the above to keep and by inference, which to sell I take the view that it depends on what those other rifles and calibres are.

From your list I take a very similar view to Stonecreek and PaulB, ie a 300 mag is a very versatile big game calibre and bullet selection is more important than calibre choice per se.

Amir

i went with the 300 win mag.
i hunt elk every year, cause i can do it within a half hour from home.
everything on your list is far larger than i use.
heck the 0-6 is bigger than i use.
so is the 270.
but that's my choice much like your's.
i'd go shoot what you have, and then keep the one you like.
it don't really matter.

The question lacks one thing-what is the quarry?

Antelope or elk? I lean towards the 338 WM. been my favorite long range cartridge since 1978. but there is a huge difference between them, antelope go 100 lbs and elk can go 800 and a bit-

SSR

SSR

Cross L,

The quarry are listed in the assumptions.



Amir,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

My perception of stalking in the UK is that stags are taken on closely managed estates, usually with a single client in the field, and that there is no such thing as a 'free range' or public land hunting for them.

This is far different from most elk hunting in the States which takes place on public land with what seems like thousands of other hunters in the field.

While I understand that slipping a 100gr. .243 bullet into the lungs or heart of an unaware stag or elk will be fatal, the thought of an elk running into the sights of another hunter over the next hill is a major I reason I want to anchor my quarry by disrupting as much of the cardiovascular system as possible.

Hell, the longest shots (in excess of 300yds.)I've ever taken at game were with my .243 Ackley Improved and the pronghorns just folded right up. I just don't expect an elk to react that way.

George

As to the track record on "humanoid targets" the 300 Win has killed more people than the plague at alot more than 400Yrds. As for the 300 Roys lack of accuracy due to radius shoulder and freebore...400 yard accuracy? Really? And the point is moot anyway, the last assumption is well practiced - they are all equal with a well placed premium bullet. The diffrence in life expectancy after impact would depend more on the individule animal than cartridge used. That being said I chose the 300Wby due to the more inherent accuracy due to the freebore and radii shoulder.

7 STW. I think of the four the STW kicks the hardest.

BTW I like your choices. All classics.

I like the 300 Win Mag.

7mm STW is a barrel burner
Not a fan of Roy's
338 is bigger than you need on deer and antelope, although it would be my second choice.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Cross L,

The quarry are listed in the assumptions.



Amir,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

My perception of stalking in the UK is that stags are taken on closely managed estates, usually with a single client in the field, and that there is no such thing as a 'free range' or public land hunting for them.

This is far different from most elk hunting in the States which takes place on public land with what seems like thousands of other hunters in the field.

While I understand that slipping a 100gr. .243 bullet into the lungs or heart of an unaware stag or elk will be fatal, the thought of an elk running into the sights of another hunter over the next hill is a major I reason I want to anchor my quarry by disrupting as much of the cardiovascular system as possible.

Hell, the longest shots (in excess of 300yds.)I've ever taken at game were with my .243 Ackley Improved and the pronghorns just folded right up. I just don't expect an elk to react that way.

George

George,

You are describing the tourist's hunt, not that of the man who lives here. There is no public land to hunt on in the uk in the sense you know and very little chance anyone will claim a deer shot and lost by someone else, but these only indirectly relate to the calibre discussions.

I shoot red deer on my syndicate in Scotland, about 4k acres of commercial forestry. I find it difficult to imagine a scenario where one would get a shot a deer that wasn't unaware, they tending to run as soon as they realise something is untoward. I will not take running shots at big game outside of a driven hunt scenario. I am just as interested as you in them dropping where I shoot them because although some other won't claim them (If he drags the bugger off the hill he's welcome to it as far as I'm concerned...) clear fell is possibly the worst place to extract a deer from possible and if he runs into one of the metres deep ravines or ditches I'm more or less buggered if I'm without any mates to call.

I have also found however that no calibre can guarantee what you guys call a "drt" unless you hit the brain, neck, spine or take out both shoulders a little higher and further forward than the standard heart shot.

in my experience deer shot in the chest tend run a bit and tip over, I mean somewhere between 10 and 150 yards whatever they are shot with. Some run for a hundred yards with achest full of soup ans some drop dead as a doornail from a shot that only clips the top of the lungs but imparts shock to the spine. It is only really with marginal shots that calibre can make a difference in my experience.

If I were hunting elk I would just take my 06, remember that whatever a 300 can do at 400 an 06 can do at 300, and shoot them high in the shoulder at range and in the neck closer in. This would let me load a nice soft destructive bullet for expansion at range and not have to worry about bullet failure close in. An elk shot through the heart or both lungs with a suitable bullet will not go very far I,m sure, the furthest I've seen a properly shot stag run after a hit with the 243 is 75 yards.

I once shot a blue wildebeest at about 400 yards with a 180 grain interlock doing about 2550 fps at the muzzle. I think they are about as heavily built as elk and certainly if one doesn't place the first shot can be very tenacious to life thereafter but this one, who aware of us was shot through the aorta and lungs, ran about 70 yards and tipped over.

Amir

300 Wby would be my pick. It would be overkill for Pronghorn and light Deer, but with a 150gr load it would be fine, especially at distance. David Miller uses a 300 Wby for Coues Deer, so who am I to argue. With Elk at distance on the menu, I'd rather err to the strong side.

I Also selected the 300 Win Mag. It is a very accurate round that is relatively easy to shoulder and the caliber offers a great bullet selection. The fact that it is fairly easy to handload is a real plus. Finally it shoots to distances that are longer than I'm willing to try for elk, deer or other critters. Mine is a keeper for sure.

I went with the .300 Wby, but at only 400 yards any of them will work just fine. I have them all and like all of them. I also have a 8mm Rem Mag and it is very impressive at long range, but so is the recoil......Tom

I agree with the 300 WM crowd, especially Lionhunter's comments, having had some of the same experiences with my 300 WSM.

I have used a 300 Weatherby and a 300 Win Mag for just that purpose, with perfect satisfaction.

I would use 180 or 200gr bullets.

338WM would be my choice

I Vote Present...^

If the range gets out to 400yrds the 300WM (or Weatherby) wins from my perspective. I'd have preferred a hotter .33, but those weren't available. I can't see the benefit of a .33 with bullets in the .30 caliber class.

I would choose a good 200gr plus bullet in a 300 Win Mag at 2800fps plus. I've hunted lots of big animals at fairly long range with 210gr Bergers, but none quite out to 400 yards yet.

With elk on the list I prefer a .30 to a 7mm any day.

I prefer the Win over the Weatherby for ease and cost of components, particularly here in SA. But the Weatherby certainly has the performance edge.

By the way, I've shot lots of Springbok with that combination too, so I'd not be concerned that it is way too much for Pronghorn and smaller game. Bullet placement is critical on the samll stuff though, or go for a stronger bullet for less damage. I'd not go to a lighter bullet as velocity is the real meat bruiser on the smaller animals.

I voted 300 win mag as I just had a rifle built for just the purpose you describe.

Model 70 PF
trued action
pillar bedded
laminated stock
good trigger
Hart 26 inch barrel
NF mounts and scope.

Wish I could tell you how it shoots but have not been to range yet.

BigB

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
I went the .300 Weatherby.

Not because of any ballistic reasons or because I'm a weatherby 'nutta', but I have seen ammo for it in just about every gun shop I have visited oveseas. If you don't have a weatherby, now is a good reason to get (at least) one.

I voted the same but because of the choices given the 300 Wby and 338 Win (180 gr/250 grain respectively) have about the same energy with the Weatherby being a bit flatter shooting. I like the more powerful 338s (340 Wby, 338 Lapua, etc.) but also the 30-378 Wby. I don't doubt the 7STW would do the trick as well. I believe the two 300s in the list are the most versitile with the edge going to the 300 Wby shooting heavier bullets for larger game.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Ken....

I went with the 300 Win...

but the suggestion of the 270 Win, they will kill Elk just fine....

its the old shot placement argument..

of course, those of us in the western USA who gt to shoot varmints a lot, get a lot of trigger time, compared to our shooting brethern elsewhere...

I shoot 5 to 8,000 rounds a year at little soda can sized sage rats at distances from 50 to 250 yds each varmint season...and they are fast moving little critters also..

a deer at 300 yds, seems like a dump truck in your scope site...elk even more so..

out here we are lucky to have that opportunity..

I'm an east coast born and raised, and mid west survivor, so I can relate to the opportunities..

Winnie roger

7mm Remmag with 160's and you are done!