I have committed to my first 7 mm

I am listening

Give me a lecture on its versatility

I love to try 162 a max on antelopes

180 Berger VLD on paper

What else

your favourite powders and recipes please .....

Thanks professors

I believe Von Gruff reports about 3200 fps using a 120 GS HV bullet in his 25" 7x57.

i think i used one once at about 109 f. beyond that it was to hot to move

H414 is the powder that was created by the gods of reloading for the 7x57 mauser. It can be used with a wide range of 7mm bullet weights. This powder can give you the mild recoil the 7x57 is known for or it can give you muzzle velocities that can be used in the killing of the some of the larger game.

You get all this with trash talking moa's with H414.

My wife's 7x57 has a 22" barrel. I seat the bullet long. I use RL19 in it and can push 2800 with a 160 Accubond but accuracy in her rifle (new commercial 98)is down around 2700. I wouldn't even think about it in an older rifle. She normally uses 140Accubonds at around 2850 for everything. Again RL19.

IMO, you've picked the wrong horse if you're interested in a race. The 7x57 has done yeoman service on every continent on every species of game. But it has been used within it's performance parameters.
With a 160gr bullet, 2500-2600fps is about all you should expect if you're wanting to stay on the sane side of reloading. If you want to endanger the weapon and life and limb, go ahead a stoke it up to gain another 1 or 2 hundred FPS. It kills so much better by red lining it.

I'm with beeman, why bother hotrodding it? One of the great virtues of the 7x57 is that it kills medium-sized game excellently without being a hotrod. Of course, you can go hotter than the loads for a Mauser 95 in modern actions, but you don't really need to.

Lets see
7-30 waters
7-08
7mm mauser
284 Winchester
7mm mag
7STW
7mm RUM
just for starters.

Maybe I'm just gettin' old and cranky, but why not just buy yourself a hot rod if you want speed, rather than push the limits on a 7mm mauser. A 140 gr. bullet clocking at 2800 fps will do just about all you need at a reasonable distance.

GWB

You can sanely get 2700 to 2800 fps with a 140 gr bullet. This is pretty close to the original load for the 150 gr bullet in the 30-06 which has accounted for most of the world's game as well as performed splendidly in two world wars and numerous smaller ones over the last century. You could do more but if so you would be better off with a 280 or 7mm Mag at the expense of more recoil, muzzle blast, and weight. I enjoy shooting my little Mauser but I just tolerate the magnum and I haven't yet seen a deer or elk wearing enough armor to need a magnum.

Jerry Liles

quote:

IMO, you've picked the wrong horse if you're interested in a race. The 7x57 has done yeoman service on every continent on every species of game. But it has been used within it's performance parameters.

Yo.

quote:

Maybe I'm just gettin' old and cranky, but why not just buy yourself a hot rod if you want speed, rather than push the limits on a 7mm mauser.

Jee-Dub-Ya is for sure Old & Cranky (like me, we have to take our Pleasant Tablets in the morning - he takes two and I only take one) but spot-on, nevertheless.

Benjamin,

A coupla pretty sage Guys for this cartridge - Yeah, you can push it a grain or two and it'll do fine but WTF-Over? Why?
Just shove any 120-177 grain bullet along as designed and it'll do what's required.

Are there some magic bullets? Yeah, try the Barnes 120 gr. if you want velocity or any vanilla-flavored 170-175 gr. bullet-o if you want better-than-similar results with more trajectory.

Actually the "old-fashioned-heavy bullet" loads perform better.

Still gets the Job Done.

IMHO in the lower 48 there isn't a more optimum cartridge. The 6.5x55 comes close. roger

quote:

With a 160gr bullet, 2500-2600fps is about all you should expect if you're wanting to stay on the sane side of reloading. If you want to endanger the weapon and life and limb, go ahead a stoke it up to gain another 1 or 2 hundred FPS.

My old Hornady book has 154gn at 2800mv, 160 at 2700. [from 22"barrel] I gather they consider that realistic and sane enough to publish.

I dont consider it hot-rodding when one loads 7x57 to say 6mmRem or .270win pressures,-in suitably strong receiver.

If you have an old mauser like a 1909 arg. you have to be cautious, a good vz24 or Persian, less cautious....just about any new modern steel bolt action- take it to 65kpsi without any real worry.

Run your 7x57 at more traditional vel. or vamp it up some,theres no wrong choice, just your choice.

Thanks guys for the information

Perhapsthe title of the thread was misleading

I really wanted to ask what range of weight have you guys shot rather than speed

Sorry to have given that impression

Ok

I will try Barnes 120 and try and locate some good old fashion RWS head and see how it goes


How about if I change the question and ask

Which is the most accurate powder and optimum speed for mordern bullets to expand properly ?

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

With a 160gr bullet, 2500-2600fps is about all you should expect if you're wanting to stay on the sane side of reloading. If you want to endanger the weapon and life and limb, go ahead a stoke it up to gain another 1 or 2 hundred FPS.

My old Hornady book has 154gn at 2800mv, 160 at 2700. [from 22"barrel] I gather they consider that realistic and sane enough to publish.

I dont consider it hot-rodding when one loads 7x57 to say 6mmRem or .270win pressures,-in suitably strong receiver.

If you have an old mauser like a 1909 arg. you have to be cautious, a good vz24 or Persian, less cautious....just about any new modern steel bolt action- take it to 65kpsi without any real worry.

What sort of test eq are you using to determine the pressure of your overloads?? Inquiring minds would like to know.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:

Which is the most accurate powder and optimum speed for mordern bullets to expand properly ?

Different bullets have different lower vel. limits for proper expansion.
a GScustom will better expand at a certain lower vel. than say a Barnes mono metal.

Well I have owned a 7 x 57 since I bought my first one in 1972, I still have that rifle and I still shoot stuff with it. I just load 50 gr of IMR-4350 in a W-W case a Fed 210 primer and a 140 gr Nosler Partition Bullet. Over the last 40 years a lot of game fell to that load. You want more that that, then buy a 7mm Remington Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Different bullets have different lower vel. limits for proper expansion.

Thank you and amen

That's exactly the point I was trying to make

In the old days construction of bucllets is so different than modern offerings they will behave if modern bullets are thrown at old speed

Forget safety in an old action,

If I have a shall we say a BAT action would you still operate this chambering at or around 2400 ?

Shall we say 200 + yards down range your projectile will be running around 1900 fps or under

Will mordern projectile open up and perform the same with a few hundred feet more behind it ?

BTW I ALSO Enjoy A 6.5x55 and have hunting successfully with it

I bought a sporterised Mauser in this chamber and just want to have some fun with it that's all

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
What sort of test eq are you using to determine the pressure of your overloads?? Inquiring minds would like to know.

I woud have to be honest and say that I did not accurately determine the pressure.
I would be like most others, in that I begin by using published book data,and observe things like primer cratering,case head expansion, and ease of bolt lift on extraction, as I increase the powder charge.

Then again several modern high intensity factory loads have shown primer cratering in my modern factory rifles,[though I still presume safe?]...so i dont really rely on primer observation.
Some modern high intensity factory loaded rounds also show slighty firm bolt lift,but not tight, in a modern factory rifle.[I still presume safe?]

In a suitably strong receiver, I dont see issue with attempting to vamp up the 7x57 using Hornady data, or to operate it at vel/pressures that other cartriges regularly operate at.
However, theres no obligation to do so.

DArcy Echols rehardens actions because of peoples propensity to load to the higher end of the vel./pressure spectrum.....people have that propensity whether it be 7x57,6mmRem,.270win,.300H&H or 338win.

HodgdonPowder has 7mm08/162gn-2725mv 50,800 CUP...and.....>.300h&h/180gn-2990mv 54,000 CUP.


What methods or testing equip. did you use to determine that published data from the likes of Hornady[7x57: 154gn2800mv,160gn-2700mv] is deemed to be insane/risking weapon life and limb?

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
I believe Von Gruff reports about 3200 fps using a 120 GS HV bullet in his 25" 7x57.

As noted I do get 3235fps with the 120gn GS Custom bullet from my 25in barrel but it also needs noting that the design of the GS bullet allows this without hotrodding it as such. BL-C2 with the Fed 215 got it there with accuracy and as the GS will expand down to 1800fps it gives it a fair reach if you are going after lopes from a distance.
The other jacketed bullet I load is the 160gn Woodleigh at a comfortable 2700fps with H4350 and WLR. My barrel is a 9 in twist and both these bullets are long and suited to the twist so it depends what your barrel twist, throat, and to a certain extent magazine length is.I had stipulated the 160gn bullet when the barrel was chambered so throating suits.

I get 2900 Fps with a 140 grain nosler from my ruger #1 And its accurate too. I use H 414 and I would not expect any thing better to come along...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by George Semel:
Well I have owned a 7 x 57 since I bought my first one in 1972, I still have that rifle and I still shoot stuff with it. I just load 50 gr of IMR-4350 in a W-W case a Fed 210 primer and a 140 gr Nosler Partition Bullet. Over the last 40 years a lot of game fell to that load. You want more that that, then buy a 7mm Remington Mag.

George,
that same load [140np-50gn4350] John Barsness describes as a staple load for his 7x57 rifles.
He achieved in excess of 2900mv from his NULA 7x57.
He also achieved 160gn2800mv, but comfortably settled on 160gn2700+mv...from his Ruger No:1.

The slower .275Rigby 140gn2800mv did very well,[John "Pondoro" Taylor gave that load high accolades]...so why have people bothered to up it from there?

However,If ones has use for the extra vel. and the rifle is safely capable of it, then why not?

I don't see the issue with taking the 7x57 to its full modern potential.

I load ordinary Hornady 175-grain round-noses for my dad to use in his old Suhl Mauser with 23,6" barrel. Muzzle velocity is a moderate 2 350 fps.

That load flattens everything in sight! I borrowed the rifle two years ago for a black wildebeest and a shot low on the shoulder from just over forty meters away saw the big bull collaps in a cloud of dust with all four legs in the air!

No need to go very high in the original 7 unless your planning to shoot past 200 metres or so.

I have had a host of 7x57 rifles over the years. Since 1997 I have used the 130gr GSC HV bullet in one rifle for most of my hunting. It now runs a comfortable 2900fps and everything from the smallest of antelope to eland is fair game. When I developed the 120gr HV, I used a different rifle with a 10.5" twist. Accuracy with both these rifles is a given and I do not have to walk after wounded game any longer.

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/120grhvtest.html

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/galschultzfam.html

I have assembled all the bits to build a 7mm Rem Mag three times. Every time a customer twists my arm for some or all of the components and I sell them off. I have never felt the need to build something that can do "more" than my 7mm Mauser. For culling small antelope I use another caliber but for walk and stalk, the 7x57 is my goto rifle.

I have a 24" 09 argentine actioned 7x57.

120gr horndady soft point - N150, 3000fps

139gr Hornady BTSP/140gr Nosler accubond - N150, 2,800fps

154gr Hornady RN - N150 (or N160 but quite a muzzle flash) 2,600fps

175gr Swift A frame - N160 2,450fps

I suspect N550 giving the results it does with 7-08 (really high velocities) would give significantly more velocity. I don't view H414 with the same love that others do - not many book loads show the same velocity and I don't like ball powder. RL19 has some good loads and I suspect RL17 would be really good up to 140gr

I think VLDs and such a rifle is nuts.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
IMO, you've picked the wrong horse if you're interested in a race. The 7x57 has done yeoman service on every continent on every species of game. But it has been used within it's performance parameters.
With a 160gr bullet, 2500-2600fps is about all you should expect if you're wanting to stay on the sane side of reloading. If you want to endanger the weapon and life and limb, go ahead a stoke it up to gain another 1 or 2 hundred FPS. It kills so much better by red lining it.

While I agree with most of what you say, one can't argue facts, I also have to disagree with you. The main reason the 7x57 has ben kept at low pressure levels is because of the 93, 95 and some 96 Mausers being considered too weak for modern pressurse.
Seems to me, not too long ago, Kimber imported a bunch of 1916 Oviedo 93 Mausers that were chambered to 7.62 NATO (.308 Win.) and put them in Ramline stocks with a bit of bolt alterations and drilling and tapping for scopes and sold them as cheap .308 Sporters. Wait a minute, those are supposed to be too weak for .308 Win. pressure. Turns out Kimber had them pressure tested by the H.P. White Laboratory and they proofed out as safe. So much for that old wive's tale.
My point is if a modern rifle like a Winchester M70, Remington 700 or a Mauser M98 in good shape can handle loads like the 270 Win or evem 7MM and .300 magnums, why can that same modern rifle hadle load in the same pressure range as those more modern round? Back thrust from a .300 Win. mag. loaded to 60,000 PSI is much grater that the backthrust if a 7x57 loading to that same 60,000 PSI due to the greater area of the magnum case.
I agree that the 7x57 in it's present form kills quite well with the exception of one brand of ammo
Back in the mid 1970's I bought my firsy 7x57. (Wish I still had that one. ) In the small Nevada town I lived in, the only ammo I could find was the 175 gr. Federal brand so that's what I hunted with. It was about 8 in the morning when I shot a decent Mule Deer with that load. I'm positive of the bullet strike, but that deer took off at a fast pace. My wife helped me try to find that deer and we looked until it was too dark to see anymore. I found what was left by the birds and coyotes. No way to do an autopsy but I soured on the cartridge and sold the gun.
Many years later I bought another 7x57, a Winchester M70 Featherweight and as I had two boxes of that ammo I bought back in the 70's, I chased down a couple of fresh boxes of that same brand ammo load. What an eye openener. Five rounds from the original box of ammo averaged 2010 FPS. Five rounds from the fresh box averages 2010 FPS. Federal advertises 2400 FPS. Methinks they're being too conservative with that ammo. It is my firm belief that that bullet was not going fast enough to open up and just penciled though that deer.
I've only messed with 2 loads for my M70. One is the 140 gr. Ballistic Tip at 2800 FPS. very accurate BTW. The other is the 175 gr. Hornady round nose bullet that duplicates the original 7x57 load at 2300 FPS. Also very accurate BTW.
I do have other bullets to try including the 120 and 140 gr. TSX, 140 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter and game Kings, 150 gr. Nosler Partitions, 160 gr. Speer Hot-Core and Grand Slams plus my very small hoard of Sierra 170 gr. round nose bullets. Wish I could find more of those. Sierra dropped them quite a while ago.
Dunno what size antelope the OP plans on shooting but I know the 140 gr. Ballistic Tip would have worked just fine on the Pronghorn I shot in 2009.
There are definitely no flies on the 7x57.
Paul B.

Some info for you to digest. My 7x57 is a Mauser 98 with 25" barrel.

I use AR2209 (H4350). I have tried 2213sc and Varget.

I have tried the:

Sierra 140 and 175 SptBt.
Nosler 140 BT, Accubond, Partition and 175 Partition.
Woodleigh 140,160 and 175 PPSN
Hornady 154 RNSP, 154 Spt and 175 RNSP interlock.
173 RWS H-Mantle.
W-W 145 and 175 Factory
Speer 160 Spt
Barnes 140 XBT

The most accurate factory load in my 7x57 was the old Red and White box W-W 175 Silvertip at 2,341.

I have got the 140 weights to 2,780fps but only with strong new Norma brass and obscene over loads.

The Bonded 160 Wodleigh PPSN penetrates the furthest of all projectiles tested at 2,405fps.

My rifle is most accurate with Hornady 154 and 175 RNSP's. Also the RWS 173 H-Mantle.

I have hunted and shot rabbit, fox, pig, goat, red deer and camel with this rifle. There is a magic about the 7x57 but it is with conventional projectiles at established velocitys. For (under 200 yards) hunting large game try a 175 C&C at 2,400fps and for smaller game a 140 C&c at 2,700 and you will see what I mean.

Someone said if you want hot rod velocity buy a 7mmMag. I also own one and he is correct.

quote:

Someone said if you want hot rod velocity buy a 7mmMag. I also own one and he is correct.

operating a 7x57 to the same pressures people commonly run a .270win or .300Weatherby is not a radical procedure.

If things were all about traditional velocities, then folks would also not attempt develop the .300H&H to its full modern potential.
But a number of people have, and are quite pleased with what it can deliver at pressures equal/similar to other modern loaded 300 magnums [Propellant companies provide modern high intensity load data for the .300hh]....likewise some people are happy with what the 7x57 delivers- when modernly loaded in an appropriate strength rifle.