I have recently saved from LGS lock up the big brother to my 9.3x62.I would appreciate some info on this rare find ( for NZ ).
There is a stamp 91H just before the cal stamp is this its birth date and who is the maker?.
It came with 29 loaded rounds and RCBS dies, is my 44 mag shell holder ok to use.
There is no data on the ammo but it is loaded with 270gr speers and 65.5 gr of what looks like ar2208 for avg 2500fps.The ADI handloaders guide is light on loads and velocity is on the low side compaired to data from elsewhere.Help on load data with ADI powder appreciated.
After much searching 40 RWS new cases should be on there way out of Aust in approx 2 months.
As I have never got the hang of posting photos on this site I will see if nakihunter can put some up so identification as to maker and manufacture date is possible.

Here are some photos from John

I was just working on loads for my 9.3X64.

Data is a bit scarce. If you are limited to only ADI powders, AR2206H (H4895), AR2208 (Varget), and AR2208 (H4350) would be good to start with. You are right, the ADI manual is pretty weak on this cartridge, and the velocities are very low.

There are some Varget loads on the reloading pages of this site. Start with the 63.0gr load and work up. Swift also has published data using Varget, but it seems slow to me.

If you can get it Reloader 15 (Norma 203B) is very well suited to this cartridge and is my go to powder for it. The Nosler online manual lists several good loads to work from.

My best powders have been RL15 and IMR4350. I get 2800fps with a 250gr Nosler using 68.0gr of RL15. With 74.0gr IMR 4350 behind a Lapua 285gr round nose, I get 2617fps. Please DO NOT use these loads as is, start 4-5 grains under and work up. My rifle has a 25" barrel as well.

The 4350 loads are all very compressed, and I can't fit a spitzer bullet with 74.0 grains. The round nose is just short enough to work. I have no idea how Nosler got 76gr behind their 286 Partition.

Have fun with your new rifle.

Jeremy

Jeremy

I reload for my -64 (M98) and use N150/203b with 286grs bullets, and N140 in a training load with Speer 270 grs bullet.

M

Thus far I have been very pleased with 64.0 gr RL15 and the Nosler 26 PArtition. For practice or fun, I substitute the Prvi 285.

As a -64 owner I am learning that down here nothing happens quick.

Cases 2 months if i'm lucky.

Proper shell holder 6 months +, but the 44mag holder works with a shim for now.

At least projectiles are ok speer 270 and norma oryx 285 gr and nakihunter is sending some 320 gr woodleigh's. I kind of like the idea of them.

I shot a small sick fallow doe ( dead fawn inside her that had reduced to just bones )with it. 40 yds in the neck DRT.

Can you import from the US as Huntingdon Die Specialties has a large supply of RWS brass, RCBS shell holders and dies. Was reasonably priced as well.

I shoot the 250g Barnes ttsx behind RL15 for 2780fps. Very happy with the performance!! Also use the 286 partition behind the same powder at 2700 fps with similar game performance

I tried huntingdon they cant export without an export permit which will cost $300 and the same for others.
Brass out of Germany eu 300-500 for the export permit + 60 or more postage,add the cost of the cases and its too much for 40 cases.Just have to wait at least I know what one christmas present could be.

Can you get it through an Australian company? Maybe PM a few Aussie members here.

Jeremy

One other option, if you can get to a lathe, is to cut the belt off of .338 Winchester Magnum brass and trim the case rim down to 0.495".

Neck it up, anneal the necks and you are good to go.

I made my first 50 cases this way waiting for brass to come available.

It is a lot of extra work, but it might get you going faster. Then again, .338 brass might be just as hard to get.

Jeremy

Years ago when RWS 9,3x64 brass was scarce (non-existent) here, I ordered from Reimer Johannsen. Perhaps they can export to New Zealand?

My son is in Australia and his local gun shop is getting some RWS in maybe 2 months.
I do have 28 cases that came with the rifle but no load history for them.There is plenty of old load data on the rcbs sticker in the die box for Vit powders and Tug bullets, not that common around here. I have to assume these cases have seen a few reloads.

John hm It is best to use factory brass and RWS brass is very hard to beat. You can make brass from 458 Win or 338 Win cases. It is a bit of work and you need a small lathe but you can do it. The Lyman X30 shellholder is one of the correct shellholders. I would suggest you only consider using new unfired cases only. I formed Win brand cases by using the following procedure:
1/ chuck case and cut off the belt. Dress off the base of the case so it is smooth.
2/ reduce rim to the proper size
3/ cut the groove in the case slightly deeper. Use the shellholder as a "go "{ guage
4/ If you use 338 cases you will have to expand the neck (best to use a tapered expander).If 458 cases are used use a 41 cal die as an intermediate die.
5/ Size cases in a FL size die. You should have a slight resistance when you close the bolt.
6/ Load and fireform these cases. I used Win brand brass and found the fireformed cases have the same capacity as RWS brass.

Yes this is a bit of work but it is still a lot better than not being able to shoot such a great rifle. Hope this helps

69grns of AR2209 with the 320grn Woodleighs for around 2350fps.

Try www.johannsen-jagd.de. They should be able to ship it.

ozhunter
I will shoot a few of the rounds that came with the rifle and use the cases to work up to 69 of 2209. 2350 fps was going to be my target velocity which will make the light Frankonia rifle a tad on the lively side I think.

Thanks for the contacts I have filed them but I think its easier to try across the pond in Aussie first.Making cases will be a last resort as I prefer factory with the correct cal stamp.
Huntinton Dies have accepted the order for a rcbs shell holder. The order is Queued ?? and has been for 20 days.

If I'm not mistaken your rifle is a Belgium FN made for the European trade..At any rate it appears to be a darn nice rifle..

I see quotes of 9.3x64 loads that don't even equal the 9.3x62 when in reality the 9.3x64 is the full equal of the 375 H&H, it is, in fact, the Europen answer to the .375 H&H, and a fine caliber it is...

I have owned a couple of them, and really liked them, but the availability of the 375 H&H components caused me to sell my 9.3x64s...That was some years ago and 9.3x64 was impossible to find.

My load data shows IMR-4320 as the best overall powder and 67 grs. of that will push a 300 gr. bullet to 2644 FPS in the 26 inch guns I had..same load pushed a 286 at near 2700 and 71 grs pushed a 250 gr. GS Customs bullet at 2900..those are mighty impressive figures and betters the .375 in some ways.

Hope you don't get a stuck case in your die, as the sell holder your using with a shim will no doubt slip at some point and cause you some grief, but I understand its not a perfect world and we have to improvise at times.

Those are good loads and yes I did stick a case so one down. I dont mind losing the odd one hunting but while reloading thats a bugger.

This is a Waffen Frankonia Favourit rifle
It has the modern post 1973 German proofs
Starting with the Imperial German Eagle then the Munich ( Munchen) Proof house shield and then the stacked WWF mark designating it a Frankonia gun

I have one in a 404 Jeffery. The treatment of the stock, sights etc identical

Thanks ALF any chance of a photo of your 404 please.
John

I'll go with Ray on the IMR4320, I used that with Nosler 286 PTs. It hit hard. A fella really wanted it, said the right price and with my gunwhore tendencies, he got it.

John HM,
congrats on a very nice rifle in a uncommon but charismatic caliber.

I have been waiting on a '09 Argentine in 9.3x64 which is due to land on Aussie shores in the next month or so.

I have already touched base with a few x64mm shooters here in Aus and will be loading for the cartridge this Summer. I have laid in reasonable stocks of cases and projectiles.

To begin with I intend loading the .250gn T.Shock utilizing R 15.
Eventually, I will also be working up a good load with a tough 285gn slug.

Would be good to form a contact group to share loads and performance with this cartridge as information is scarce at best.

Best of luck, good hunting.

Paul.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:


Would be good to form a contact group to share loads and performance with this cartridge as information is scarce at best.

Paul.

I would be interested in sharing 9.3x64 load data. I'm having one built right now on a ZG-47 action.

John

I have sent you an email with info about Reloading International. I found them great to deal with. They do not seem to stock 9.3X64 brass but you can bullets from them & they might even help by getting the brass from Huntington.

Another thing - ask your son to check before he tries to send you or bring brass from Oz. I think their laws are a lot stricter than ours.

Good luck.

I've had brass sent from WA to ACT and from Vic to ACT, so it seems that posting brass is OK (at least domestically).

Whether that holds for international postage, I cannot say.

To share information on this cartridge would be a good thing. Photos and hunting stories also. Not much on the internet that I can find.
Its never been an issue sending projectiles to NZ from Australia so cases (also inert)should be ok. If any one has had problems I would like to hear of them. Better to find out now rather than later after some moron postal worker has binned them.

John, and any others here that wish to correspond, exchange info for suppliers, swap hand-loads etc, feel free to contact me via e-mail;
ssahuntinfo@optusnet.com.au

Paul.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
If I'm not mistaken your rifle is a Belgium FN made for the European trade..At any rate it appears to be a darn nice rifle..

I see quotes of 9.3x64 loads that don't even equal the 9.3x62 when in reality the 9.3x64 is the full equal of the 375 H&H, it is, in fact, the Europen answer to the .375 H&H, and a fine caliber it is...

I have owned a couple of them, and really liked them, but the availability of the 375 H&H components caused me to sell my 9.3x64s...That was some years ago and 9.3x64 was impossible to find.

My load data shows IMR-4320 as the best overall powder and 67 grs. of that will push a 300 gr. bullet to 2644 FPS in the 26 inch guns I had..same load pushed a 286 at near 2700 and 71 grs pushed a 250 gr. GS Customs bullet at 2900..those are mighty impressive figures and betters the .375 in some ways.

Hope you don't get a stuck case in your die, as the sell holder your using with a shim will no doubt slip at some point and cause you some grief, but I understand its not a perfect world and we have to improvise at times.

As Ray has said IMR 4320 is very good in the 9.3x64. I have also found that IMR 4007 is very good. Slower than 4320 and faster than 4350. 4007 is a very fine stick powder that takes up less room than 4350 and works very well with 286,293 and 300 gr bullets. I just started with 4320 data and worked up. Groups in my rifle are very good with 4007. Hope that helps.

I noticed both the 5th and 6th Nosler Reloading Books have data for the 9.3x64. Both books list IMR-4350 for the 286gr Nosler Partition.

Has anyone tried RL-17 in the 9.3x64, which has a similar burn rate to IMR-4350?

quote:

Originally posted by MHC_TX:
I noticed both the 5th and 6th Nosler Reloading Books have data for the 9.3x64. Both books list IMR-4350 for the 286gr Nosler Partition.

Has anyone tried RL-17 in the 9.3x64, which has a similar burn rate to IMR-4350?

MHC My 9.3x64 is built on a Mauser 98 action. I have tried IMR 4350 and the 286 gr Partition. I cannot get anywhere close to getting 76 grs (max load in the Nosler vol 6 manual). However I have used RL 17 and IMR 4007 with the 286 gr Partition. Since you will NOT find any load data listed for either powders I started with IMR 4320 data and worked up. I used new RWS cases and watched for normal pressure signs and measured case head expansion and measure this against loads listed for IMR 4320. I worked up to 72 grs of IMR 4007 and RL 17 with the 286 partition. RL 17 produced very good groups but IMR 4007 produced even better groups. 4320 powder was very good in my rifle (as per data recommended by R. Atkinson) , RL 17 was better and IMR 4007 was best. I have not chronographed this load but 72 grs of 4007 produces 3 shot groups around 1 1/2 inches @ 200 yds. RL 17 was producing groups in the 2 to 2 1/2 inch range @ 200. I would suggest you work up carefully from a safe load of IMR 4320 in your rifle. I have some brass that has been fired 5 times with the 72 grs of 4007 and the primer pockets are still tight so I don't believe pressures are excessive. Hope that helps.

quote:

Originally posted by MHC_TX:
I noticed both the 5th and 6th Nosler Reloading Books have data for the 9.3x64. Both books list IMR-4350 for the 286gr Nosler Partition.

Has anyone tried RL-17 in the 9.3x64, which has a similar burn rate to IMR-4350?

No, but it does wonders in the 9.3 X 62. In making reference to the Nosler #6 manual, the difference between the two cartridges when loaded to the same COL (3.37") with the 286 NP is 5.5% more case volume for the X64 over the X62. That's not much. According to The Barsness 1/4 Rule, that means an increase of the Brenekke over the X62 of 1.4% in muzzle velocity with equal barrel lengths and psi, using the same component bullets.

That's about how it works for me using RL-17 behind the 286 NP. In other words, if the 2690 fps from the 286 NP is valid using 76grs IMR4350, then about 2600 fps from the same projectile should be doable from RL-17 in the X62 shooting the same 286 NP. In actual fact, it is.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I can be a lucky bastard sometimes. On wednesday the shell holder arrived from Huntington's and yesterday morning I took a phone call. A very nice chap who had seen these posts, and said " I used to own that rifle and I still have some cases and projectiles do you want them." Well does an old dog fart.He called in at home later with 20 RWS cases and 150 bullets we did a deal he looked at some of my toys and exchanged a few stories.
This morning I've been playing.
The 270gr speer with 66gr of AR2208 2540 fps which should be ok as I hear its a bit soft but the target species are Red Deer, Sambar and Pigs.
The 286gr Norma Alaska ( he had 2 boxs )to be used on the same animals shoot to the same POI as the 270's at 100 yds with 71gr ar2209 at 2485 fps.
I also tried the 320gr Woodleigh that Nakihunter sent but the groups were low and 4" at 50yds. My Husky 9.3x62 shot them ok, a bit low but the scope allows me to use the range markings and it will work. That load was 65gr ar2209 at 2280 fps.

John

For the 9.3X62, AR 2208 is the best powder IMHO. AR 2209 is too slow.

I sent you some emails with links and an excel file of my 9.3X62 loads.

Rl-17 is proving to be the best powder yet in the 9.3x62, coming mighty close to the 9.3x64 all things being equal..I started a whole thread on this here on AR sometime back and it went wild..lots of folks trying this powder in quite a number of guns...

SAFETY NOTE: MANY LOADS LISTED ON THIS THREAD FOR THE 9.3x64 AND FOR THE 9.3x62 ARE GROSSLY OVER-PRESSURE. PROCEED WITH CAUTION.