I have used a 444 marlin for a while and have used heavy 30/06 loads. I'm looking for a long range elk and bear.

I can handle all the 444 had and just want to be sure I won't regret getting the 338 I like the BC on the larger bullets for downrange velocity and horsepower. I know that all is dependent on rifle build so any help on barrel profile would be great I will using an ER Shaw barrel.

I also would be open to other calibers with similar numbers.

Any help would be great.

Thanks,

Mike

If you can shoot a .444, the .338 has a bit more recoil, especially with the 250 grainers. But, it isn't going to kill you or anything. However, it does pack a serious whollop at the muzzle end. It even catches up energy wise, with the .375 H&H at 200 yards. This is, by far, my favorite plains game caliber.

Geronimo

Consider looking at the 210 Nosler Partition. Recoil is not that bad.

GVA

myates:
Load your .338 mag. with some 225 gr. Northforks and some rldr-22. One very good moose load. To shoot your rifle from the bench, I'd recommend getting a PAST recoil shoulder pad. If you use it enough on the bench, then, when the time comes to put that elk down, ya won't have any trouble at all. Just my experiences. Bear in Fairbanks

I don't think you would regret it one bit.

The 444 has a bit of recoil itself.

develop the mind set-relax and squeeze

is not as bad as some horror stories you may have heard---have fun.

I have a Ruger MK11 laminate stainless .338 win mag and shoot woodleigh 225 gr protected points from it. I previoulsy had aruger in 30/06 with the canoe paddle stock and I felt with 180 gr bullets it kicked worse than my .338 does..........................338 will be fine for you considering you shoot a .444 and 30/06, you'd be fine with a .375 H&H or a .416 for that matter.

Actually considering you own a .444 and 30/06 I don't feel the .338 is a big enough jump from what you already have, I ould look at one of the .416's and shoot 300-350 gr bullets from it, jump in recoil but still flat shooting and heaps more power, noticeable power jump over the cartridges you own already.

Rounds to look at would be a .416 Taylor or .416 Rem mag.

Another option amy be the new .375 Ruger as well.

But I really reckon the .416 bore is a great choice.

If I was restricted to three cenetrfire calibers (shotgun and .22lr are mandatory )
I would opt for;

22/250 40-60 gr bullets
30/06 125-240 gr bullets
.416 Rigby 300-450 gr bullets

The recoil of the 338 is not a problem ,,,however learning to shoot it well is the trick.........Don,t shoot it to much at any one time... Asuming you have a nice trigger in it,, 48 oz .or less , and you are friends with its length of pull ,, scope position. drop at comb and heel and cast off.....Use a bunch of 4-6" diameter inflated ballons... turn them loose 3 at a time and shoot them off hand and from kneeling.....If your range is to stoogy for that , Pin them to the target board at 50 yards .. When you can hit all them in 6 seconds or less move to 75 yrds ... When you can pop 3 for 3 @ 200 yrds in 6 seconds from kneeling or 150 yrds off hand .. your definatly ready to hunt.............Genrally its not good to shoot a bear at long range.........My end all cure all HUNTING rifle is a 416 Rem Mag I had made up .....It has a muzzel brake and is fun to shoot ... 300 gr moly coated Barnes XFB @ 2900 fps..

I have also been considering a 338 win for a little more punch. How does the recoil compare with a 300 win?

I,ve shot them side by side,, shot for shot and the difference is non existant with up to 225 gr in the 338 and the 250, 275, 300 kick less than the 375 H&H ....The heavy bullets are a little more push but not as bothersome to me as the 300 win. and nicer than the 300 Whby or RUM....by a good amount........

Hey Myates and euge, First off, Welcome Aboard!
---

If you would like to experience a "similar" amount of recoil to the 338WinMag, shoot a 12ga 3" Magnum in a shotgun with a Modified Choke while wearing a shirt(no coat). The recoil duration is different, but the "felt recoil"(to me) is a fairly close approximation.

For the 416RemMag that PC mentioned, try a 12ga 3 1/2" Mag with a Full Choke and again just wear a shirt(no coat) for a somewhat "similar" sensation.

Best of luck to you both.

That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. I guess I'll have to start looking a little more seriously for that 338.

Thanks guys.

I hand load and shoot both the 338 and the 444....

If the 06 or the 444 with heavier loads are managable to ya, then the 338 Mag won't be a big deal..

IN fact, I think between the 3, you have a good heavier game battery myself...

If you find the recoil on the 338 Mag is a little stiff... if you can give up a 100 to 150 fps of velocity, ( which you can compensate for, by two clicks up on the scope elevation) using some of the loads with the Mid Range powders.. like Varget, RL 15, IMR 4064, IMR 4895 you can cut down felt recoil... to where it will closer to the recoil you are use to on stiff 06 loads or stiff 444 loads...

some armchair ballisticians on line here might freak at the recommendation,, but work up.. and you should be fine... but use the heavier load data listed in the 35 Whelen as a starting load in the 338 Mag, with the same bullet weights and see how you feel about that recoil level.. and then work up from there...

a 250 grain Bullet moving at 2500 fps in the 338 Mag, is a pretty authoritarian load when it hits game... even the big ones...and recoil can be reduced a fair amount.. yet with the bullet weight, it is fairly flat shooting...

I think you made a good choice, and a little time under you belt with it, will prove so to you also..

cheers
seafire

Hi,

I must be getting old. Back in my younger days, I had the need for speed. Now that I'm older, I'm moving up in caliber and finding out just how dumb I was really was. I'm also finding out I don't like getting the snot kicked out of me! Both of my 300 Mags kick less than a 243 and my 338 Lapua Mag kicks like a 308. I've learned about accuracy, muzzlebrakes, and bullets in my 40+ years of shooting.

Muzzlebrales: I had to shoot a 50 BMG before I realized just how important a muzzlebrake can be. My 338 Lapua Mag scares a lot of people when I first bring it out of the case. It has a brake on it and it really tames this beast down. It's nothing to shoot 50+ rounds through this pussycay. On my 300 Win Mag, if I turn the scope down to 8x, I can see the bullets hit the dirt bank at 200yds. It sounds hard to beleave but it's true. My 22/250 doesn't move when on 24x. I like watching the varmints explode in the scope. I even use my 300 Win Mag for varmint hunting.


Bullets: On the faster and larger calibers, I've started using the Barnes TSX, Tripple Shock X, bullets. I've loaded them for several friends going to Africa and Alaska with great results. Every one was a one shot kill except for one and he admitted he hit his target wrong. This bullet will not come apart! Besides it shoots as good as any varmint bullet that I use.



Catch you later,

I think the 338 win mag is highly underrated and I don't consider any .308 caliber round it's equivalent. Having taken at least 9 different species of game (from eland to impala and leopard) with this caliber I can assure you that it's a great caliber and will handle the game you mentioned in spades. I have used 210 grain partitions but after some experience with the 225/230 gr I see no reason to use 210gr when the heavier bullets have every hunting advantage and are just better all around weights. The 250gr rounds should not be ignored either especially in the great bears are on the menu. As for recoil, I would class it with the 375 h&h when using heavier bullets i.e 338 250grs+, in fact I can't tell the difference but I'm blessed with a good recoil tolerence and to me the recoil is very managable provided you practice shooting with the same weight rounds you are going to use.My favorite bullets for the 338 are North forks, partitions and Barnes X bullets with the Northforks getting a slight edge. If you have a 30-06, to me the next logical step is 338 WM and if you need more than that go to the 416's.

myates and euge, welcome to both of you!

I have both the 338 and the 300. Both are outstanding. The 300 with 180's will drop just about anything. The 338 with 225's will drop anything. (speaking of North America)
The 300 used to be a 7mm that I rebarreled (HART) that I had put a "decellerator" pad on so I could shoot a few more shots at the range. (less trips for load development) Works very good for the 300 too.
The 338 has a decent pad and is not that bad.
Both will set you back in your seat but, taking a little time and do some shooting to get used to it will get you shooting straight and on target.
Ifin you guys reload, you can bring up the heat as you get more comfortable with the rig.

Have a blast and enjoy your choice!!


PS myates don't go to thin to try to cut down on weight! If it were me I would not go less then a 4 (probably do a 5) (my $0.02)

If I didn't have a .375 H&H Mag already, then I would have a .338 Win Mag. I think a .338 has just a tad bit "sharper" recoil than the .375, but it's not that bad.

I would also assume that I have to me careful about the quality and strength of the glass i put on it. Think maybe a Swarovski PV-N 2,5-10x56. Let me know if you guys think something diffrent.

Also I think I will use 225 and 250 gr bullets.

In process of looking for a high BC bullet in this range. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Mike

I've had two 338's but have only shot one head of game with them, a deer. That was a mistake!I have shot a lot of ground squirrels with them. But to shoot them as much as I did requires a lot of shooting or the recoil beat you silly. I do believe that it might well be the smallest magnum cartridge that really fills a need, but then only with the 250 gr and up bullets. There is nothing that any magnum cartridge below 338 cal does that could not be covered very well with a bunch of standard cartridges.

But when the Alaskan Brown bear get's thrown in,the 338 Win Mag walks away from even the 300 mags. It's an absolutely awsome cartridge that if you don't use it regularly will, with heavy bullet's absolutely beat the crap out of you.

It's probally better off as an African plains game cartridge. Then should you actually be attacked by some dangerious game, you'd really have a fighting chance. Awsome cartridge for which I find little use in this country.

One tip to shooting the .338 off the bench:
As already mentioned, the PAST recoil shield is a great tool. It spreads the recoil over a larger area.I always use it to practice with the bigger stuff.
The tip:
Sit up staight at the bench so that the upper torso has somewhere to go when the rifle recoils. Too many people shoot mid bores like they do their varmit or smaller bore rifles. That is they lay on the bench and into the rifle. That position doesn't allow your body to move (roll) with the punch. The more upright your shooting position the easier it is for your body to move with the recoil.
Simply build up your front and rear bags to accomodate a more upright stance and hold the forend securly to control muzzle jump. It will make a big difference in felt recoil.
The .338 is a great cartridge.

Oh yeah, regarding glass.

I'd be more interested in good "eye relief" than power range.

I have a Leupold 2.5x8x36 on mine and wouldn't change a thing. Thats plenty of magnification for anything you'd normaly use a .338 on (elk for me).
The low end of 2.5 is great for closer/brush/dangerous situations...IMO

Big scopes are an aboration to me. They take away balance and looks and add very little if anything to usefulness of the tool.

They belong on target/varmit rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktail53:
Oh yeah, regarding glass.

I'd be more interested in good "eye relief" than power range.

I have a Leupold 2.5x8x36 on mine and wouldn't change a thing. Thats plenty of magnification for anything you'd normaly use a .338 on (elk for me).
The low end of 2.5 is great for closer/brush/dangerous situations...IMO

Big scopes are an aboration to me. They take away balance and looks and add very little if anything to usefulness of the tool.

They belong on target/varmit rifle.

It's hard to reccomend a bullet as I don't know your useage. I like the Hornaday 225 gr spire point for elk.

A regular old 4x Leu, Burris,Nikon , ect,ect.ect.ect.The 2.5-8 is possibly perfact A fixed power scope has the potential to give the most eye relief.......200 gr Hornady and Speer bullets @ 2650 is a good 338 win mag plinking load.......It is a max load in most 338 06,s.. Execellent deer load as well......

I'm a recoil wimp and my .338 doesn't seem to hurt me, but then again, I try to limit my shooting to aroung 20 rounds from the bench for load development. The remainder are fired from field positions or off of sticks. You'll do great, just enjoy!

i shoot a 375 h&h, a 338 win mag, and a 300 win mag, all on m70's.... if i had to give up 2, i'd keep the 338... recoil-wise, its less than the 375, but not much... i shoot it well, 'cause it fits... the 26" bbl balances it out nicely....develope a load that give you the performance for the hunting you intend to do...

I bought a Ruger MKII M77 SS in .338__This gun will kick the crap out of you at the bench.I bought a lead sled so i can shoot all my reloads without pain.In the field you'll be fine!I mounted a Nikon 3x9 Monarch on it.

To me the 338 win mag kicks just a little (very little) too much. I reload for 7 different 300 win mags including mine and have identical rifles in 300 win mag and 338 win mag. I can shoot 300's all day but after a range session where I usually shoot 20 rounds of 338, my old shoulder will be sore for a while.

I'm right on the edge trying to decide whether to put a brake on it or not. I love the caliber and enjoy shooting the gun and would like to shoot it more.

Mainly I shoot 225 gr TSX's or 210 gr TSX's. I tried the 250 gr TSX's and that was punishment! The slower powders that would lend themselves to the heavier 250 gr bullets really fill up that case and with the longer 250 gr bullets the loads were very compressed (RL22 & IMR7828).

The 210 gr loads shoot well and I'm thinking of ordering some 200 gr Accubonds. The 338 win mag should push the 200 gr bullets faster than the 300 win mag.

Ultimately the recoil depends upon the stock configuration, weight of the gun, the weight of the bullet and the amount of powder burned. There are a lot of variables to work with there, but if you get the wrong stock shape in a light gun and shoot a heavy 250 gr bullet, you'll suffer the consequences!

quote:

Originally posted by RiflemanZ:
I bought a Ruger MKII M77 SS in .338__This gun will kick the crap out of you at the bench.I bought a lead sled so i can shoot all my reloads without pain.In the field you'll be fine!I mounted a Nikon 3x9 Monarch on it.

RiflemanZ, The pad on a Ruger is junk! Do yourself and your shoulder a favor and get a decellerator or a limbsavor. (it was/is a M77 that I turned into the 300)

myates the Swarovski should be just fine. My 338 has a 2.5-10 Burris Signature and the 300 has 4.5-14 Burris Signature and both have held up to alot of trigger squeezes.

The Nosler Accubond 225grn has a (reported on website) BC of .454 and Barnes says the 3shk in 225 is .386 and the 250 is .425. Hornady lists the 225 SST and the Interbond both coming in at .430.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
A regular old 4x Leu, Burris,Nikon , ect,ect.ect.ect.The 2.5-8 is possibly perfact A fixed power scope has the potential to give the most eye relief.......200 gr Hornady and Speer bullets @ 2650 is a good 338 win mag plinking load.......It is a max load in most 338 06,s.. Execellent deer load as well......

Gumboot458,

My 338-06 chrono'd 200 grain ballistic tips at 2909 fps in a 23" and it was a standard chamber. It is a great round that has never been properly marketed, I could handle it, but hated the 338WM recoil myself.

Hmmm, I always wonder about the suggestion to use "light" - 210 or 20 grain bullets in the .338. Whats the point of using a 33 cal in bullet weights that are bested (IMO) by the 30 cal 200 grain weight and it's higher
BC and SD? If you're going to use the .338, use 250 gr bullets and get the punch the round was meant to produce. In the interest of punch, and long range, I have opted for the .358 STA. 250 gr bullets at 2800-3000 fps carry a lot of punch for a long way, and a muzzle brake thoroughly tames the beast. Unless your description of long range is in excess of 350 yards, the '06 you already have is all the elk rifle you will ever need anyway.

myates, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!
I have a .338WM built on a 1909 action. When I received the rifle it had 3 boxes of ammo with it. one box of A-Square 250gn Monolithic Solids, one box of A-Square 250gn Sierra Boat Tail (both at 2700fps) and a box of Remington 225gn PTD SP's. The recoil although "stiff" should not be that much of an increase over your .444. If a .338WM is what you are looking for, go for it. It will do anything you need it to do on this side of the "Big pond" and is an excellent choice for plains game in an area where you might need some "muscle" in a hurry. As far as scopes go, mine has an old 3X9 Redfield that will put me inside 1 3/4" at 100yds, and it will probably stay on the rifle. If money is no object, the Swarovski you mentioned is right at the top as far as quality optic's go. As far as loads are concerned I haven't loaded for the .338 yet, but I see that several loads have been listed already that should get you started. Welcome aboard, and good luck whatever your choice turns out to be. Take care and God bless. cordell

quote:

Originally posted by cobrad:
Hmmm, I always wonder about the suggestion to use "light" - 210 or 20 grain bullets in the .338. Whats the point of using a 33 cal in bullet weights that are bested (IMO) by the 30 cal 200 grain weight and it's higher
BC and SD? If you're going to use the .338, use 250 gr bullets and get the punch the round was meant to produce. In the interest of punch, and long range, I have opted for the .358 STA. 250 gr bullets at 2800-3000 fps carry a lot of punch for a long way, and a muzzle brake thoroughly tames the beast. Unless your description of long range is in excess of 350 yards, the '06 you already have is all the elk rifle you will ever need anyway.

FYI, I used only 2 loads after initial work up. 200 gr B tip for deer, and a 225 partition for everything else. In a 338WM, if you can stand the recoil, a 225, 230, and 250 make lots of sense for large game.

I have found that the recoil from my 338 RUM isn't bad shooting those 210gr Nosler Partitions. I have the rifle weighting a little over 10 lbs with a leupole 4X12 scope and a leather sling. I have about 40 lbs of recoil. I think that the 338 Win shooting these 210 gr bullets at 2800 FPS has almost as much recoil weighting about 7 lbs. 39 lbs of recoil

I've used the 338 as my main allaround rifle here in B.C. for close to two decades. I shoot 250 Noslers at 2750 fps. Absolutely perfect for everything includeing deer. We have some big bodied Mulies here. Recoil with the 250 is a little stiff but nothing compared to anything that gives better performance. My barrel is 23" and my gun weighs 8 1/4 lbs with 2.5x8 leuplod. To see better performance you need to go to the .416s and thats a big jump in recoil.Go with the 338 and never look back.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear in Fairbanks:

To shoot your rifle from the bench, I'd recommend getting a PAST recoil shoulder pad.

I agree with that advice. Get the thick, magnum-type, recoil absorber.

Also set yourself properly on the bench. Get the rifle high enough that it is in front of you and you are behind it instead of hovering over it. (I see now that Blacktail gave you the same advice, above.) This will mean that it does not rise up and smack you in the face. (I absolutely detest those rifle stocks that are not straight -- that have a significantly large drop a the comb and a much greater drop at the heel. Rifle stocks should have just enough drop at the comb for the bolt to clear, and then should be straight back from there to the heel. Those rifles that have stocks that drop off like a crooked dog's hind leg always annoy me -- they may have excellent metalwork, but they are useless for present-day shooting.) Wear gloves when you shoot, and if possible wear thick clothing (i.e. it's better to shoot when the weather is cold than when it is warm.) Hold the rifle tightly with both hands and pull it tightly into your shoulder, while at the same time pushing it tightly down into both the front and the rear rests.

If you do all those things, you will minimize the effect of the kick, and the kick will tend to come back into your shoulder and you will roll with it, instead of the kick rising off the bench and slamming you in the face and the eye. Using these techniques will also minimize any effect from flinching when you shoot.

I use those techniques to shoot a .375 H&H, and, although you definitely feel it when the rifle fires, you can shoot good groups with it.

i have several rifles chambered in 33 cal one is a tc encore pro hunter that is light with the flex tech stock it is not to bad my other is my 338 lapua in a custom rifle with a 36 inch heavy ported barel its recoil is like that of a 270win i feel that if you have a 444 and a 30-06 you would benifit from the 338 winmag i like mine for large game out to 400 yds and beyondso good choice sir. if you get the rifle and it has to muck recoil have a break instaled i owne a lot of violent recoiling rifles and a break will make a big differance.

I took my Rem. 700 in .338 WM to Namibia in 2005. Shot 210 and 250 Federal NPs. Took a nice zebra with one shot, a great springbok with one shot and a nice gemsbok with two shots - first one quartering away and second at about 225 yds. I practiced from the bench and on sticks (most important). Seldom more than 20 at a time and rarely felt much recoil. Never felt a thing in the bush! I plan to take mine back again in 2008 as it really worked for me the first time.
John

Am 5'8" 165 and gettin' old, can shoot a .375, .388 and 45-70 with hot loads. Just put a good recoil pad on it.

I took my pre-64 model 70 out to the range today and shot 12 rounds thru it and am getting a little sore now but the recoil is not bad. I am shooting 200gr Combined Technology Ballistic tips in front of 72.5gr of IMR4350. I have not had the chance to shoot it thru the chrony yet but it is plenty fast enough. I took a big body whitetale with it last month and it slammed it. This gun was given to me by my father, his brother in Fairbanks gave it to him this past fall. I love this gun but as stated in the other post you need good eye relief, this gun has a vari x II in a 2x7x32 and that is plenty of scope.