Just read in one of the gun mags that the next release from Winchester will be a 338 WSM - we all expect that - and a 25 cal WSM - now this has my attention - basically a 257 Weatherby in a short action affordable rifle. Now were talking something new!

I think a 358 wsm it be the cats meow

It is my estimation that a .25WSM will be a barrel burner. For many 600 rds would be 2 lifetimes of shooting but for someone that wants to send many rounds down range for recreation and practice, it might require 2 or 3 rebarrels per year. Even .264WSM wildcats are shooting out barrels in less than 1300 rds.

A wildcat .257 on the old .284 Winchester is much more sensible than a .257WSM IMO. In barrels under 30" the performance will not be appreciably less than the same bore with a WSM case.

[ 09-18-2003, 05:13: Message edited by: RuffHewn ]

Rifleman, which mag was that in?

JMag - Gunns and Ammo - latest - I think?

I have a 25-284 (since 1965) and I used it almost exclusively for 25 years in Montana and Alaska - the barrel is now about done - even though accuracy is under 1". I agree - I think it would be a fine addition to factory fodder. But I doubt Winchester will resurrect the 284 case after having invested heavily in the new WSM and WSSM cases. And you got Remington out there with its SAUM cases needing some cardiac jolt. The 25 WSM should about equal a 257 Weatherby - which many posters here swear buy - I think it was Roy Weatherby's favorite. Barrel life may be a bit shorter than some but the ballistics out of a short action light weight rifle should be pretty impressive - and the market is in need of a hot 25 cal. It would have universal appeal for easter/southern whitetails/hogs and western hunting.

If you guys thank a 25WSM will equal a 257WBY. your nuts it might be as good as my 25-06 ACKLEY 100gr bullet at 3550. But you won't see 3800fps. like I get out of my 26" barrel Accumark. It will just well lets say fall short...

Well, I wouldn't call the gentleman "nuts." He said the 25 WSM would be "about equal" to the 257 WBY. Having dinked with a 300 WSM and a 257 WBY I'd say the 25 WSM would run about 100 fps less than the 257 WBY in equal length barrels. That, my friend, would fall squarely in the "about equal" category. The 257, 6.5 and 270 are, IMO, about perfect for the WSM case.

Much obliged, I'll pick it up or (more likely) look it over at the stand.

Joe.

Been there, done that. The 25WSM is right there with the 257WBY. So far I'm getting 100gr bullets to 3580FPS out of a 25" barrel with 64 1/2gr of RL-22. the load comes right below the bottom of the shoulder in the cartridge. There is room for more powder, I just haven't pushed it yet. Ballisticly it's right there with any SANE 257WBY load. As far as barrel wear is concerned, if you don't like the 257WBY, the 25WSM ain't gonna float your boat either.

I'd heard though the rumor mill when the 25WSM was released, it would be on the WSSM format.

[ 09-23-2003, 16:30: Message edited by: TC1 ]

Like I said you have a real nice looking 25-06 ACKLEY. But it looks like you took the long way around to get 3550fps. MY 25. ACKLEY has 59gr. IMR 4831 just a little below the shoulder and it has a 24" barrel. And my 257. WBY 74gr. IMR 7828 for 3800fps. and the brass has been reloaded 12 times and still going maybe not that insane after all...

This is not intended to start and argument. I would like to have one of the 'knowing' explain to me WHY? Maybe there is some enlightenment that you gentlemen see that escapes me on these smaller based short mags in 25 caliber.

As Joe Cool from Bandon Oregon points out, he gets 3580 fps or more out of a 257 Weatherby and a 100 grain bullet. And how much powder does it take to get that?

I load a 260 Remington up with a 100 grain bullet. 43.5 grains of IMR 4064 gives me 3350fps out of a 22 inch barrel. In a 26 inched barrel Remington VLS the same load gives me 3450.
So 50% more powder with a gain of 150 fps? I fail to see any advantage to it. A good handloaded 257 Roberts will get close to that also. A 6.5 x 57 Mauser with a 28 inch barrel and a 100 grain bullet gives me 3550fps. That is with 45.5 grains of IMR 4064. The brass is fine after that load.

I have also shot a deer at 300 yds, with this load and a Nosler Ballistic tip. I watched the deer drop straight down in the scope, set on 4x on a Leupold 3 x 9 with a dot reticle. I also cut out about 10 pounds of hamburger on the far shoulder due to blood shot. So next time, I am definitely carrying the partition.

With that sort of meat damage, a cartridge 150fps or more faster will give me what, but more meat damage? Seems like a point beyond diminishing returns to me.

Barrel life etc, we won't even go there. Accuracy, the 260 gives me 1/4 inch groups if I do my part.

Anyone out there want to play Obe Juan Kenobi and enlighten me? I would appreciate finding out what I may be missing.
Thanks.

Joecool, As stated in my post above, there is room for quite a bit more powder in the case. The bullets could be pushed faster than 3580fps. I can get 70.9gr of RL-22 in the case without compressing the powder. That's almost equal with the 257WBY. never did I say WSM would out perform the WBY, it's just so close that if you're arguing #'s your "bench-racing"

I just haven't "pushed the envelope" on this one as I see no need to and keep in mind, mine has a 25" barrel on it.

As for the 3800fps out of your 257WBY, I'll just say that is the fastest one I've heard of. Most people feel good when they achieve factory ballistics with reloaded Weatherby ammo. Does your rifle wear the factory barrel? If not, do you have the extra freebore like the factory barrels? What is the length of the barrel?

Stay safe,
Terry

[ 09-23-2003, 19:57: Message edited by: TC1 ]

Seafire/B17G, You're not missing out on anything. When you've got all the bases covered on your big game rifles, A fast .25 just seemed like a fun project to me. It can be the hero or the villain, just depends on how you look at it. I honestly couldn't justify owning such a rifle if my collection was any smaller and I dought this will ever be my "go to" rifle. Sometimes we buy or build things that we don't need, we just want. A good example would be sports cars or pickup trucks with blowers (Ford Lighting.)These things aren't practical, but they are fun.

Gun powder isn't cheap, but it's never been a deciding factor in what I buy or what I shoot.

Terry

TC1

That's a beautiful looking rifle with a nice scope on it!

What action and how does it feed?

It looks like a Remington: notice the flattened bolt knob on the bolt handle and the shiny recoil lug between action and barrel. I could be wrong...

Correct Rootbeer, It's a 700BDL. It started life as a 6MM REM that didn't shoot very well. The bolt face was opened up, Sako extractor installed, action trued, Shilen #4 1in10" twist barrel installed, holland recoil pinned in and Williams floor plate installed for looks At first I thought it was going to have to be a single shot rifle, I ordered an after-market box and follower from Brownells. It just never real feed the bullets well, but since then Remington now sells the SAUM box and follower for the M700 though thier parts dept and now it feeds slicker than the 6MM ever did.

Here's another from the good side

[ 09-23-2003, 19:59: Message edited by: TC1 ]

�basically a 257 Weatherby in a short action affordable rifle. Now were talking something new!�

Let not exaggerate this. A 257 Weatherby holds 15 grains more powder and does 300+ fps over the 25WSM with it�s 26� tube. If you put the Weatherby in a 30� barrel the difference is over 500 feet per second. A 24� Weatherby is a waste of powder and is not a fair comparison as there is no way it can use its superior case capacity. It would be better to call the 25WSM �basically a short action 25-06� as the case capacities are about equal and in the same length barrels should shoot about the same.

I love a hot rod 25. It is my �go to� and has put my 22-250 and 7 Mag both out to pasture.
Here is my affordable rifle:
[/url]
$380 25-06 Ruger on sale at Bi-Mart
$80 Hogue stock
$75 setback and rechamber to 25-06 Improved.
Self done 22 ounce trigger
E-bay Leupold VX-II 6-18 for $300 NIB in Leupold rings.
It shoots Sub MOA
100 grain Partitions at 3550 and 75 grain V-Max�s at 3950
The 75 grain bullets actually shoots .4 for 5 shot groups

Hello
I know i am going to hear this is way overbore and you are right,but i have a 6mm-257 weatherby improved that i bought because i never heard of it before.Last sunday while tagert shooting at a friend's farm, i shot a groundhog with it at 325 yards.We were shooting there all day and several deer, two wild turkeys and a three groundhogs came out and walked across the long ridge we were shooting on,while we were shooting!

I have had trouble finding a bullet that would hold together as it has a 1 in 8 twist.So far the only ones that have held together have been Sierra 107 grain matchkings and the Sierra 85 grain BTHP.
Hornady amax in 105 grain blew up around 150 yards down range.

The load i have been using is 68.5 grains of BMG 50 powder,Fedreal 215M primer,With the 107 grain BTHP matchking,in Remington brass.

The gunsmith i bought it off of told me that he figured around 600-750 rounds through the barrel and it will be done with.Its a heavy douglas stainless steel barrel on a mauser action.
He built two of them for a couple of buddies,then the one died and his widow asked him to sell his guns off and i bought it.It has made the summer a lot of fun, playing around trying to find the right combination in it.

Muskrat
live to shoot-shoot to live!!!

I reload gun powder and have never tried water.

My regular 25-06 holds 66.7 grains of RL-22.
As an AI it now holds 72 grains of RL-22 in Winchester cases.
Weatherby brand brass for a 257 holds over 80 grains of powder.
How much powder will the 25WSM hold?

I don't have a 25WSM, but you do, so based on your post of 64 grains coming to the bottom of the shoulder I made the guess it holds less than the 25-06 AI. This is further proven by your current performance of 3580. I had over 3600 safely with my AI but chose to back down to make sure that even on the hottest days it would stay a happy load. They sound very similar and sure they are comparable to a 24� Weatherby but they currently come in 26� barrels and are a solid 200 feet per second faster than what we are doing. A Weatherby Mark V synthetic can be had for less than $600. About the same as my current Ruger. All said and done I wish I would have bought the Weatherby. Then I could have used factory brass and wouldn�t have to fire form or anneal anything.

Sure they all would go faster in the 30" barrel but the Weatherby would kick them all with a top speed of 4300+. I don't think a 25WSM or 25-06AI would get anywhere near that. What we can answer right now is that the new 257 Weatherby�s will shoot 3800 comfortably with a 26� barrel. I�d hate to see anyone expect to go buy a commercially built 25WSM with a 24� barrel and try to even get close to a what a Weatherby will do. It really much closer to the 25-06AI.

Your reaction is pretty strong. Just how much did you spend to equal my Ruger? It sure looks nice.

Hired Gun, Water is used in measuring case volume, not to reload with. Since water doesn't compress like gun powder and has a way of filling up the entire case it's one the best ways known to figure case volume. I don't reload with it, but rest assured if I ever find a way to fire it off in a case, I'll share this knowledge with other AR members (for a small fee).

The problem in your comparison, is you're comparing your compressed load to my non-compressed load. Like I stated in my earlier post, 3580fps is as far as I've gotten, That's not to say it's anywhere near the max. What is the maximum load for a 25WSM? I don't know, I haven't been there yet. With only a 6.75% difference in case volume, I'm sure it's not very far behind the 257WBY. You gotta keep in mind also, the law of diminishing returns. You can't just subtract 6.75% from your 257WBY to figure the the velocity of the 25WSM. It takes a lot of gun powder to achieve a little velocity once you get to these volumes.

You're right about barrel length being the key to higher velocity, but since the 25WSM is a true wildcat, the potential owner can specify any length barrel he or she desires. So comparing a 24" barreled 25WSM to a 30" 257WBY is like apples to oranges. When the barrels are the same length, The velocities are gonna be close. Like I said earlier I never made any accretions of the 25WSM being faster, just very close to the same performance.

The rifle pictured cost me about $1700.00 if I remember correctly. This wasn't a "cost is no object" rifle, If it was it sure as hell wouldn't have been on a Remington action but I wasn't on a budget either. The Fleur De'Lis W/ribons checkering job was $250.00, The Williams floorplate was $200. The wood was in the price of the rifle that I bought used. If you're into that sort of thing you know, good wood ain't cheap It has a few extra's on it, some for looks and some for performance.

You could build the rifle much cheaper if you wanted to, Simply buy any rifle chambered in a short mag and have have it rebarreled in this caliber.

Yes my reaction was strong but only because I strongly disagree with your post Don't be offended just because the words are typed and not spoken. It's just the internet, have fun

Peace,
Terry

Thanks Terry, I know it's all in good fun. It would really be boring if no one had a different opinion. This is how we learn by testing and proving.

Keep us posted on how it goes with your 25. I really think Winchester is missing out as I really do believe this would be a good/popular commercial round. Much better than some of the others that really do have to struggle just to equal their competition. Now if Nosler and Swift could just make us some nice bonded plastic tipped 25 caliber bullets for us.

As one of the biggest fans of the "Quarter Bore" caliber I guess a .257 WSM is in my future. Hopefully I can get one with a 24" barrel, blued barreled action, box magazine(no detachable magazines for me) and a REAL wood stock. Then I'll have to see if the "Honey, I couldn't help it, it followed me home." bit works on her. Lawdog

TC1 my 257 WBY has the factory 26" free bore barrel and if you thank 3800fps was fast it was up to 3950fps. with 76gr. of IMR 7828 and no real signs of pressure but I back it down. the primers look fine bolt open fine and closed back on the fired brass fine and no extractor marks. I have a buddy that getting 115gr bullets out of his 257WBY over 3500fps. factory barrel

And buy the way I hope they do come out with the 25WSM. Maybe some better hunting bullets will soon follow as the speed of any of the hot 25s are hell on bullets

other than this is in the wrong forum....

I have a 257wsm... i had the reamer cut the DAY winchester released final drawings.. me and probably 50 others...

it's a 26" doublas barrel on a national ord. 1903a3 action... thumbhole stock, nice looking gun..

but, I hadn't worked with it, till about 10 days ago.. as I found that one could get 270 wsm brass, and one pass it to 257 wsm, about 1/3 the trouble of 300 wsm.

I just got 300wsm neck dies, dropped the right collet in it, and used 300 wsm for seating... universal 25 caliber neck expander... I think i had 60 bucks in the dies.

no recoil.. none, zip nada... but i haven't gone past 65 gr of rl22, yet... think i will in the short term..

the 257 jamision, which is within 1 grain of the 257 wsm, matches factory weatherby, at about the same pressure and barrel...

i bit... i think lots of quarter bores... and one that can be zeroed at 200, and not care as far as you can shoot (which is 250 for me, but 400 for others)

i think the old 140 gr hornady 257 bullet would make this a golden BB

jeffe

Ya Know: I often think a lot of magnum guys are nuts!

However there are different versions of nuts. While I really get a lot of flack from 300 mag guys, I have really "met" a lot of 300 Mag guys on here who are really an enjoyable bunch of guys. Some gave me a lot of name calling, but then they also were a wealth of info, and were a far cry from the nimrods who own a high powered magnum, and don't know a thing about it.

After reading all of these posts, I have come to the conclusion: There are sure a bunch of "lovable" nuts on this thread. So you fry a BARREL in 600 rounds. I think that is really stupid, unless you throw the FUN factor in there.
Of course if being able to do something stupid wasn't so much fun, no one would do it.

A couple of fellow Oregonians on here, Will look forward to possibly running into you guys in the hunting fields this fall. Would like to see those hotrodded 25 cals in the flesh ( or is that in the Steel?)

For someone who mentioned a 140 grain Hornady in 25 caliber, You could always bore your barrel out .007 and get a lot of 140 grain bullets, and even some 156 and 160 grain bullets for it then.
Then you have one of my favorite bore diameters, 6.5mm!

Seafire,
you might think i'm more nutz if you read the bigbore forums...

300 mags are less than 22's, in recoil

and FUN

but, think about it... 600 rounds "and shot out" doesn't mean you can't still fool around with it, or spend the whole of 125 bucks for a new barrel, if you do you own work...

that's a WHOOPING 20 cents onto the cost... which you beat reloading...

let's look at costs
20 bucks for a # of powder... 100 rounds a #, more or less...
20�

25 cal bullets...(11bucks, 100 bullets)
11�

primers
1�

32 � before barrel
52� with barrel...

(change to 300 wsm, no reloading)
<cheap bullets>
$25 for 20
$1.15 each!!!

reloading 300 wsm
20� powder
1� primer
17� cheap hornady 180s...
38� for a non wild cat...

I'll take my 14� and have something just about NO ONE else will have

i'll also take the marginal SD improvemnt.. yeah, it's just numbers at that point

jeffe

Seafire,
You will have to look fast cause at 3500+ fps these 25's aren't out for long. Once the deer show up the season gets pretty short. Maybe if I shot a slower gun my hunt would last longer? haha. Ah well. I love to show mine off so if you see us, don't hesitate to ask to see it. I carry my Pact Chronograph with me at all times as well.

The last two posts is why I LIKE YOU GUYS>

that comradery is what hunting should all be about.