Go easy on me fellas, as I feel pretty upset about this.
I was at the range today shooting my Kimber montana 8400.
I was getting ready to shoot my second shot, the gun was on the sticks pointing at my target, and it went off. I think I went to shoot, figuired out it was on safety, went to push it forward, and must have had my finger on the trigger and and with my wrist action of turning it on, pulled my trigger finger.
Thats the only way I see it happening or, and my reason for posting is, Is there any other way the gun couldve gone off by itself by taking the safty off.
I guess what I am asking is, is it possible to put the safty to "Fire" and it makes the gun go off.
Again, please go easy as I am sick to my stomach about this.
thanks,
W.

quote:

I guess what I am asking is, is it possible to put the safty to "Fire" and it makes the gun go off.

Yes. If YOU are negligent.

There are some here who can admit to doing the exact same! I certainly did about thirty five years ago with a Lee Enfield No4 on a night exercise. Pushed the safety off with the thum abd at the same time pulled the trigger with the finger. It did'nt much matter as getting a shot off was the point of the thing anyway. But it was not how I had intended to do it!

I warrant that you will now never ever do it agin in your lifetime. So it has been a cheap and pain free lesson to remember where your finger is!

You should hope that in fact that is what you have done. If you haven't then there is a problem with the rifle. Either the inletting hasn't been done right or the sear and bent engagement is wrong. It may be worth having a gunsmith check it out. The cost of this will be cheap compared to the cost if there is a fault.

Possible cause? The sear is binding and is not properly engaging with the bent on the bottom of the bolt. So that when you take the safety off the bolt moves away from the sear just enough to go past it. On an Enfield if that were the case it should or would be caught by the half-cock notch. On a Kimber I don't know if it has this device.

There may be a mechanical issue if the trigger pull weight has been lowered. Doing the trigger job, someone may have altered the sear enguagement to a dangerous level. If the sear is set too light, IT WILL GO OFF.

The other issue may be you. Alter your shooting discipline when placing the rifle safety into the FIRE position. Push it off safety with your trigger finger. That way it is never inside the trigger guard. NEVER put your finger inside the trigger guard till your ready to fire.

quote:

There may be a mechanical issue if the trigger pull weight has been lowered. Doing the trigger job, someone may have altered the sear enguagement to a dangerous level. If the sear is set too light, IT WILL GO OFF.

+1. So has someone worked on the rifle to do this?

Reason for the questions about someone working on the trigger is that if the creep adjustment is taken too far it is possible for some triggers to move a tad even with the safey applied but not release until the safety is switched off.

Empty your rifle. Close the bolt and put the safety on, pull the trigger and take the safety off. If it snaps, you have a problem. If it does not go off, slap the butt with an open hand, bam the butt on the floor, etc., everything you can do to see if you can jar it off. Again, if it does....

If not, be aware of where your trigger finger is at all times. Never put your finger inside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.

The thing to do now,
Is to check the safty, its not to hard.
First make SURE, both the chamber and magazine are empty, then,
Cock the rifle, and with the safty on pull the trigger, pull it prety hard, Then take the safty of and see if it fires.
Do it a bunch.
If your rifle does not fire in this manner after 20 or so tries, do it again , then with the rifles cocked and the safty off, bounce it on the recoil pad a few times , If you have a rubber mallet give the coccking piece a rap a few times.
If it does,nt fire you are probably ok.
There are a few things I would like to know as I have a kimber also.
The older kimber safty only has 2 positions, while the newer looks the same but has 3 positions. witch is yours.
2nd Do you know weather your trigger is as it came from the facory.
meaning did you or anyone else work on it ?
If you bought the rifle used , you have no way to know if the trigger is stock or alterd.
And if that is the case i would have it looked at by a good smith.
if you bought it new you should know if the trigger has beed adjusted or otherwise alterd .
One other thing to consider is , just how light is your trigger pull.
I have a Ruger with a timney trigger that was so light I accidently fired it when I put my gloved finger into the trigger guard.
3 LBS is light enough , you can buy a pull gage fairly cheap ,or just take it to a simth.
I think the Kimbers are adjustable. The factory trigger on mine is very light and I should probably check it.
please keep me posted.
...tj3006

It doesn't take any negligence if your trigger ain't right! There have been plenty of Remingtons that had this issue, and I think the Kimber trigger is Remmy geometry, but I'm not sure--doesn't matter, I won't go so far as to say it's common, but triggers firing when the safety is disengaged isn't really rare either.

Do what others suggested and determine if you have an issue best you can that way, but I also do all the above with a dummy round loaded as well, and the trigger cocked by cycling a round or two and then doing the 'tests' others recommended.

I had a mauser action once, that if the stock action screws were overtightened it would fire every time you took it off of safe. Got rid of it quickly, the smith that bought it got a great deal IHO, and IMO too!

Gun Is factory new, and I have shot it about 5 seperate times.
Thanks guys,
W.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
The thing to do now,
Is to check the safty, its not to hard.
First make SURE, both the chamber and magazine are empty, then,
Cock the rifle, and with the safty on pull the trigger, pull it prety hard, Then take the safty of and see if it fires.

...tj3006

It did this twice in about six tries.
Please tell me what needs to be done next.
Thank you guys so much.
W.

If it fires then there is a fault with it. I would contact the vendor and get it sorted out.

Maybe a call direct to Kimber might also be of use in case there are any warranty issues known.

I am sorry for you that your purchase has not turned out right for you. I absolutely would not try to fix it yourself but contact Kimber and the vendor.

about every other time now.
W.

What stinks is I am going Bear hutning with Jim Shockey in May. I hope I can get it fixed by then.
W.

Contact Kimber tommoro explain the problem, tell them of your planed hunt.
If they do anything less than solv your problem absolutly asap at no charge to you . I think they will.
let them knowYou will be posting on the internet either way.
the trigger is very model 70 ish
so they might send you to a warenty station.
...tj3006

I searched "kimber montana safety problem" and found this. Sorry to have to post it but it seems you are not alone.
From outdoorsmenfofum.ca

quote:

harv3589
11-04-2007, 09:10 PM

The issue was when you cocked the gun, put the safety into the second position, pulled the trigger and then flicked the safety off the gun fired.

That is not a simple fix. Send it back. There is trouble in the trigger, sear, and cocking piece fit. Most likely will require parts replacements.

woodsie,

Give Kimber customer service a call. They will take care of it asap.

Headache

Try dry fireing it and see if it happens again.If it doesn't then its you

Thanks guys,
The gun is on its way to Kimber as we speak, and should be there tommorrow.
I really like this gun, as it fits me great, shoots great and is very accurate.
Thanks again, and I'll keep you informed.
W.

I thumb my safety, but my finger NEVER enters the trigger guard until the shot is emminent. I'm a bit paranoid as a BIL from the old days had a 20 gauge go off in the kitchen next to my leg while he was playing with an "empty" gun.

Woodsie:
I've been very vociferous about Kimber Montanas here on the board in the past. However, in this case, I think they'll square you away just fine. One of the "issues" I had with mine when I first got it was the forearm touching the barrel. Sent it to them on a Mon. and couldn't believe that I got it back (if I had been home) the same Thurs. Go figure.
Pretty sure you'll be ok with this one.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by woodsie:
about every other time now. W.

Hey Woodsie, Darn shame about the rifle.

I've never had a Kimber centerfire out of the stock, so this is all "speculation" on my part. It sounds like the Sear Engagement Screw or Nut worked loose. That could cause it to happen more often.

Could also be some trash of some sort got into the Trigger Mechanism or a part broke.

Anyway, sending it back will get it fixed for sure. This can happen on ANY firearm in existance, so don't think bad about your Kimber because it happened.

Best of luck on the Hunt.

I have two superb rifles that I only have because their previous owners were scared of them for that exact reason.

I consider selling a rifle because of a misadjustment to be an act of stupidity.

That the rifle would fire when the safety was released
AFTER pressure had been applied to the trigger with the safety engaged.

Both are of course remingtons.

The Remington trigger IS an excellent trigger, it is "adjustable" this does not imply that the average "gun Plumber" is COMPETENT to adjust one.

USUALLY people attempting to adjust the trigger lighter set the sear engagement to the point where the rifle can easily be manipulated into firing.


That say nothing however about letting FOOLS possess, much less use a screwdriver.

there is a few tests that ANY rifle I have MUST pass before it goes into the field, it must take a 12drop onto it's butt plate without the sear falling with the safety off.

IT MUST NEVER let the striker fall when the safety is released no matter what pressure was applied to the trigger.


Behind every accidental discharge is "operator malfunction"

It doesn't matter if it's while operating the rifle, previously adjusting the rifle or failing to maintain the rifle.

Remington triggers were also prone to their 20year old factory lubricant to turn into varnish and cause a tendency for the sear to not completely engage regardless of the adjustment screw position.

Maintainance (periodic cleaning and relubrication) failures are just another form of operator malfunction.


AD

Thanks everyone.
Just wanted to let you know that I just got my rifle back from kimber (took about a week, cant beat that), and it appears to be fixed. I gave it several tests as suggested here, and it has passed all of them.
Gonna shoot it on sunday.
Thanks again everyone,
W.

I had a Jewel trigger put in my Rem 700, 22-250. I had a bullet seated out too far stick in the lands and when I extracted the case,..........all kinds of ball powder in the bolt, trigger mechanism.

Well, the next few rounds would go off when the safety was pushed forward. Scary.

I bet you just have some dirt or grit in the mechanism.

Of course, Allan thinks it is because of the stupidity of his fellow man.....

quote:

... while he was playing with an "empty" gun.

No such thing!

For me a safety has only one use - to lock the bolt closed on an empty breach with the striker down.

quote:

Behind every accidental discharge is "operator malfunction"

The Remington trigger has had enough accidental discharges that Remington modified the rifle so the bolt could be manipulated with the safety on, and now the trigger has been replaced with another design.

The original Remington trigger was a poor design, since the days of the M721. I was informed by a gray beard of two factory new M721's that put holes in the floor board of a car, when the safeties were taken off, to empty the rifles.

I think it was two hunters, two different M721’s, same car, same day.

Someone was very unhappy that they drove their car into the woods that day.

I have handled M700’s where the triggers were misadjusted by the owners. The trigger design cannot be faulted for that.

I am not familiar with the Kimber Montana 8400, however I have had two Remingtons that would drop the firing pin when the safety was put forward. One was a M700 and the other was a M721. Both had the trigger set by a very respected g-smith. I no longer have any love for Remington bolt actions. I did some research on the c-puter and found Remington has had umpteen lawsuits against them for this very reason. It even made the national evening CBS news about 15 years ago. I believe Remington got off the hook on most of the suits by saying the operator did not exhibit safe firearms practice. In answering your question, yes the gun can go off if there is not enough sear engagement. And this can happen in any rifle. This gives more credence to a three position safety under any circumstances. A three position safety locks the firing pin until the safety is released. A trigger only safety relys totally on sear engagement in most rifles and only prevents trigger movement.