Hi Guys:

I just purchased a Win Mod 70 in 270 WSM. I was thinking of using the Ballistic Tip 130 grn Win Factory round for whitetail deer this year. The velocity of this particular round is about 3300 FPS.

I must admit to never hunting with a Ballistic Tip bullet before. But I was reading a thred about how poor a killer they were on deer size game.

What do you guys think? Have you used any BT's on deer size game and up? Did they perfom well or fail?

I have two other choices for the 270 WSM, the 140 grn Fail Safe & the Win Super X 150 grn, both shoot in the one inch arena. So I am not dependent on the 130 BT's....

Your two cents please...

Jim P.

I have shot Nosler Ballistic Tips and C/T Ballistic Siver Tips in practically every caliber of rifle I own and have taken several good size whitetails with them. I think that if I were to shoot them in the 270 WSM I might go to the 140 grain Ballistic Tips instead of the 130 depending how fast you will be pushing them. I have heard allot of guy's cuss them but I have found if you can do your job and put the bullet in the old boiler room or a good neck shot they are as good as it comes. The guy's that complain alway's say they ruin to much meat but if you make a poor shot with any fast moving 130-140 grain bullet it's going to tear up some meat that's why I like the neck shot it drops them like a sack of feed with now meat loss and you don't have to go look for them. This is just my opinion but I have shot game fairly close to up to 350 yards with them and have not lost an animal. I have been thinking about having a 270 WSM built, how do you like yours?

[ 10-09-2002, 01:07: Message edited by: Handloader ]

They were built with deer sized animals in mind. In my opinion, anything bigger, except Caribou and you are asking for trouble. Good shooting.

I've shot a few deer in the past with BT's from a 270 Weatherby Mag. Yep, lots of ruined meat (especially if you hit a shoulder), but the bullets did their job. I think I would move up to a little heavier bullet, like the 140's.

I had my doubts about the BT. I like the Partition. My sons 7mm-08 shoots the 140 BT very well at 2700 fps. He recently shot a Whitetail doe (abour 120 lbs on the hoof) at about 80 yds. Bullet in the rib cage and out the other side just in front of the shoulder.
Deer ran 20yds. Didn't hit much meat. Did hit a rib going in. Lungs/heart destroyed. Only one deer but it performed well.

I USE BALLISTICS IN MY 30-06, 243 AND 300 ULTRA MAG. I HAVE NEVER LOST AN ANIMAL USING BT'S. LAST WEEK IN WYOMING I USED A 300 ULTRA MAG SHOOTING 180 GRAIN BALLISTIC TIPS TO KILL AN ANTELOPE AT 220 YARDS AND A COYOTE AT AROUND THE SAME DISTANCE. THE ANTELOPE NEVER KNEW WHAT HIT HIM, THE BULLET ENTERED BEHIND RIGHT SHOULDER AND EXITED JUST FOWARD OF THE LEFT SHOULDER DESTROYING THE HEART AND LUNGS. EXIT WOUND WAS ONLY ABOUT THE SIZE OF YOUR THUMB.

My open country deer load this year is the 150 grain BT pushed to 2750 out of my 7 MM mauser. Hopefully I won't be disapointed. I have heard so much static about the bullet I had to try it.

[ 10-09-2002, 06:18: Message edited by: rickt300 ]

I don't like them on game above 3000 FPS.I have had them fail on three whitetails hit in the ribs and shoulders at close range.One 6mm 95 BT and two 7mm in 150 BT.Great for long range but if you take a shot up close beware.IMHO for what its worth.

I have used 100gr ballistic tips in my 257wby and 140 gr ballistic tips in my 7mmstw to take over 30 head of deer,pronghorn and sheep with no bullet failures.I have also used the 180gr ballistic tip out of my 300 ultramag to take two elk and two bull moose again with great results.

[ 10-09-2002, 06:50: Message edited by: stubblejumper ]

Last December I shot a huge Kansas whitetail with 100gr BTs from a 25-06. The bullet impacted the buck on the last rib and never exited. The shot was at 79yds and dumped the deer in his tracks. 4days later we boned him out and picked 92lbs if meat off him. Not an ounce was bad.

Never had a BT fail for me or my hunting buddies who use them. Never had any bullet fail for that matter. Ballistic Tips are a damn fine bullet, some people just need somewhere to point a finger, that's all.

Hi Guys:

Thanks for the replys.

Hanloader look further down in this thred, aka (Medium Bore Rifles) and read the 270 WSM part. I REALLY like the 270 WSM.

As for the Bullets, I will give the 130 BT's a try. My concern was at close range. According to my calculations, with a muzzle velocity of say, factory specs, 3275 FPS....bullet will still be traveling at 3041 FPS at 100 yards, 2820 at 200 yards. If I wacked a deer at 60 yards, will the BT hold together or just blow up. Will it still break a shoulder and push on through to the boiler room?

I guess we shall see..... I will take a whitetail this season with it. I even have a doe permit this year for my county, so I hope to fill the freezer with some more venison, antlers or no antlers.

Once again, I am not locked into this specific bullet. The 140 fail safe, not a BT, super penatration, and the 150 grn Super X, both shoot in one inch catagory.

Remember I am specifically talking Winchester factory 130 BT's.... they shoot very well, and I see no need to hanload for this caliber. I all ready handload for eight calibers!

Any other BT shooters out there???

Jim P.

[ 10-09-2002, 16:59: Message edited by: PAHunter ]

One of the things I like the most about ballistic tips is their accuacy. I've got a couple of very accurate .308's and have found that I really can't see but a tiny bit of difference between groups from the 168 Sierra match bullet and the 165 Nosler ballistic tip. Excellent accuracy for a hunting bullet. Also have noticed excellent killing power on deer, even at 3200 fps mv from a .300 Win mag. I think that these may be some of the best mid - long range deer bullets ever made. Up close or on heavier animals the situation changes somewhat, but based merely on my observations, the bullet will still cleanly take deer, even up close.

Regarding the bullet failures cited in the posts, everything fails eventually, if it's tried often enough. Hunting game is full of variables, hard to predict exactly what any particular bullet/cartridge combo is going to do in a variety of situations. Pretty clear though that Nosler developed the partition for penetration and the ballistic tip for rapid expansion & accuracy. Regards, and good luck with that new rifle! Guy

I love them out of my 6.5x55 at 2,900fps and have shot a lot of small and medium sized deer with this combination (in xs of 100)I do sometimes wonder if the oft quoted failures are due to foliage and misjudgement of shot angles.

Year before last I shot a 150# whitetail with 165 grain ballistic tip out of my 30-06. Less that 60 yards distance. It exploded and there were three small exit holes. However the deer fell over like a pushed over lawn ornament, and was very dead by the time I walked the small distance. Performance probably be more normal at a longer distance. The ammo was winchester premium, not a handload. However this particular cartridge shoots really well in my 30-06.

I usually prefer tougher bullets, but I have had good success on game up to Whitetail and medium size hogs with Ballistic Tips in .308, .243, and 7mm Rem Mag. I have recently started using them in my .270 WSm and am happy so far. As long as it's not a steep quartering shot, I think they are fine for deer. When well-hit, they'll fall as if struck by lightining.

Ballistic Tips are accurate and the bullet does kill, no doubt about it. My problem was pushing the bullet so fast from the Weatherby Mag and the range being closer than I had anticipated and didn't have a shot except for a shoulder... all of that together creates a lot of wasted meat. I have shot game with 7x57 and Ballistic tips and they perform very well, with not so much destruction, of course the bullet is traveling quite a bit slower too. I don't fault the bullet at all, just not designed for the set of circumstances I introduced it to. I current shoot the FailSafes from both my 338 and 7x57 because they shoot so good in my rifles. I wouldn't hesitate to use a BT in the 7x57 for Deer, sheep or goat, but thought when pushed to the velocities of the Wby Mag they were more destructive than other bullets and ruined a little too much meat. I really like the meat from the animals I hunt and utilize it fully that's why I switched.

I have nothing but praise for the BT bullet. I use them in my .300 mag and have never had one fail at any range.

From what I have seen the only one I would trust to deliver what I think is good bullet performance is the 260gr 375 cal.

I have loaded them in 30-06, 270 Win, and three 7mm calibers, and they have worked fine for me, even if a shoulder is hit. They didn't always exit hit there, but the bullet did make it to the far side of the deer and most didn't move from their tracks. On the other side, has anyone tried them in a lower velocity rifle, such as a 30-30 loaded single shot? I am thinking about trying 150 grainers starting at 2400 fps. Has anyone done lower vel. expansion tests or took game with that?

I've seen and heard of hundreds of deer sized game killed with Ballistic Tips. I've used them on dozens of deer myself. Usually very good performance, but occasional problems, the same as all bullets. There is no substitute for bullet placement. Put the BT where it is supposed to be and you shouldn't be disappointed.

A Nosler 165BalTip has been my standard whitetail bullet (30-06) for more than 2 decades. I've killed probably 25 deer with this bullet, pushed at around 2700-2800. If I've made a proper chest shot, I never have to trail a deer more than 30-40 yards, and usually the deer falls right where it's hit.

Out of 25 or so deer, I've only had one bad experience with the 165BT and that was on a spike buck hit at about 30-40 yards. The deer fell, but laid there breathing for 10-15 minutes and didn't seem to be bleeding out. After 15 minutes, I shot him again, still from my stand, because I was afraid he was going to recover, get up and take off. After the second chest shot the deer still refused to die and was lying there breathing after another 10 minutes. At that point, I was feeling all kinds of horrible, so I climbed down from the stand and cut the deer's throat. Needless to say, I wasn't happy about that kill, but wasn't sure what I'd done wrong.

When a properly placed BT fails on a close shot, the most likely reasons are: (1)the bullet hit a rib or shoulderblade and "exploded" shallow, doing little damage to the vitals, or (2)the fast-moving bullet hit a spot in the abdomen where it met almost no resistance and, thus, it never expanded, simply punching a caliber-size hole straight through the animal. With the deer described above, there was no gaping surface wound, so I believe either one or both of those bullets simply punched straight through without expanding properly.

Since too much velocity is more a problem for the BT than too little, I agree with the guys who suggest you use the 140 rather than the 130. If you can move that 140 at around 2700-2800, it's definitely a good whitetail load out to at least 200-250 yards.

I've had mostly outstanding results. The BT is the only bullet I use in my 6.5-06AI at about 3000 fps. I have never had a deer take more than a few steps. I did have one 165 308 fail to expand, but it was from a VERY early lot that Nosler promptly replaced. No other problems.

BT bulletts in my 280 140 grain noslers worked great on a CO antelope three years ago it was about 200 yards away. Since then I 've taken 6 whitetails with this same combo. On the 100 yard and less shot they didn't exit but always made mince meat of the vitals. Lat year I shot a 224 lb dressed 14 point at about 100 yards. The bullett went in behind the shoulder then as far as I can tell came apart and fragmentswent through the lungs, liver and heart. Defiffinatly a quick kill but I'd pefer a bullett exit at that range. Same thing happened on a doe that same morning. They are verry accurate in my opinion but I've switched to a 150 grain nosler part. I want a bullett to exit and not come apart. Just my preference.

I loaded up some 180 gr ballistic tips for a buddie to use in his 300 win mag.
He just got back today from Colorado and killed a 340 class bull elk at 200 yds and the bullet exited with a chest shoot.
Ballistic tips work great,they have acounted for coyotes,whitetail,mule deer, carabou, black bear,elk,antelope,ground hogsand a few fox.
Plan on using them on a up and coming Africa hunt next year!

I think a lot of the misconception about Ballistic Tips come from the varmint hunters. The smaller calibers are designed for very rapid expansion. Because they are so good at it, some guys assume that ALL Ballistic Tips react that way. Not true. The heavier, larger calibers are built & designed for larger game. They are superbly accurate, and will do the job with any good shot placement.

When the Ballistic Tip first came out, 17 or 18 years ago, it utilized a thinner jacket than it does now. There were a lot of close range (high velocity) failures and Nosler made the jackets heavier. So, the B.Tip now is not the same one that got a so,so reputation to begin with.

I use 165 gr BT's on pigs etc in my 30/06 and they give good results. As with everything just use them for there intended purpose and they will perform great. They do give good accuracy as well.

POP can you please tell me more about the 260 gr .375 gr BT's perfromance or any one else with experience with this BT??

I keep tellin' ya and tellin' ya, the .25-06 and 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips "kill like chain lightnin'".

PC,
Check with Aspen Hill Farm on the African Hunting section. She just got back and used the 260 BT's with very good results.

I shot a whitetail doe with a 150gr 7mm RM last year at 20-30 yds. She dropped at the shot but jusmped up and ran. I had to Texas heart shoot her. When I looked at where I had hit her the first time there was a baseball size hole on her ribs.Looked as if I had hit a rib on entry.This was not the first time this happened.I will be shooting a 180 BT this year at 2900 from my 338-06.

Pahunter,I just bought a Win Featherweight 270 WSM,did'nt have my dies yet so I bought a box of the 130 gr Ballistic silvertips.I went out and attempted to sight in sat. and they were pretty dismal in my rifle,out of 10 shots at 100 yds one went where I wanted it to.Gave up at that point but I ran 3 more thru the chronograph.The first clocked 3242,the second,3286 and the third 3211!Just a bit of a spread!I got my dies that night and loaded up some Scirocco 130s and RL19 and yesterday shot 5 five shot sub MOA groups.I gave the rest of the factory stuff to my brother in law to try in his rifle, he got about the same results or lack of.Now I wish I would have weighed a few of the powder charges.Could be my rifle did'nt like them,but I think more likely a bad box of ammo,poor quality control?I'v used the Bts in both my 30.06 and 25.06 (handloads) and they did a fine job on deer,but as Nosler says they'r to be used when impact velocity is below 3100 fps.Thats sometimes a tough one to call,which is IMO why some hunters have had disasters with them.And they'r not built for breaking shoulders.I prefer the Sciroccos.
Jeff

[ 10-14-2002, 22:11: Message edited by: jsr ]

Hi JSR:

As you know, every rifle barrel and setup are different. I probably just have a lucky rifle that shoots all the factory offerings that Winchester makes in the 270 WSM around MOA.

That's fine with me since I all ready reload for 8 calibers. The only time I don't reload is if I can't get at least 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. Sometimes I get lucky with the first powder and bullets I try, sometimes I went through four or five different powder and bullet combinations.

I think the 270 WSM is a hell of a caliber, I am glad you got yours to shoot. I'm not crazy about the Sciroccos, even though I am a BIG Swift A Frame fan. They just seem to long, and the angle to far forward. But I was using 180 grn 30 calibers.

Good luck with the new rifle and let me know how you make out on live game.

Jim P.

The Nosler ballistic tips were designed to expand easily at the longer ranges resulting in more hydrostatic-shock value (knock down) yep they are a bit destructive close in. Their design will allow the western hunter a good advantage for game such as high desert mulies.

I love the accuracy of BT, but I hate them for hunting except at handgun velocities. I have heard several reports of them exploding on impact with little damage to the vitals. They work wounders on chucks though.

I've been using the BT for years in the .30 caliber and load for a friend taht shoots a .270 Win. We love them, South Dakota prairie whitetails and mulies hate them. It's almost not fair, if they get hit in the right spot with the BT, they go down, no questions asked. I shoot 165 gr. in my 20-06 at about 2850 and it penetrates one end to the other, the 270 with 130 gr. does the same. I also load for a friend that shoots a .30/.378 Wby magnum, I tried to talk him out of it, but he just had to have the best and fastest, convinced that it will kill deer better, I won't mention the fact that we hunt together, I shoot more in the off-season and I won't say which of us kills more deer on the first shot, which is what counts. Anyway, I load his wby. with 165 gr. that rockets out at unmentionable velocities, last fall he shot his buck at 75 yds, a big 7X8, hit it square in the shoulder, the bullet destroyed the onside shoulder, took out the chest cavity on the way through and skinned the other side of the deer. I shoot the same bulelt at at about 700 fps. slower and it does great. Just trying to give you an idea of how the BT's work out of the really fast cartridges, I also load this guy's brother's stuff for a .338/.378 (had to outdo his brother), and he like the 180 gr. BT, we've recovered two of the bullets on the offside of the deer, one at 200+yds., the other at less than 100 yds., both were peeled down to the base and did awesome damage to the insides of the deer, needless to say, they don't do their own butchering and aren't really meat hunter, but we sure like to get their loins and roast from their deer, they have apparently found a tasty recipe for antlers, but they keep it a secret. Just my .02.
Willie