I have an extra Remington 700 in 7mag that has me thinking of a barrel swap. Does anyone have any experience with either of these calibers? Is the added velocity of the STA worth the increased recoil? How do they compare recoil-wise? Is forming STA brass fairly simple? Any big game experience with either? What d'yall think?

Thanks - Gib

Gib, my father has a 338/416 which is going to be similar to the 358 STA. His 338/416 is great, and you might even consider that particular combination unless you're set on the 358 bore. I can't attest to the recoil of the 358, or whether or not it's worth it, that's a personal preference and depends on how much recoil you can tolerate, but the 338/416 with a Sendero weight barrel is very manageable. Brass is easy to form, you just run some 8mm Rem Mag brass through the resizing die and voila! it comes out 358 STA, any variation in the shoulder left behind by the sizing operation will obviously be ironed out when you fire it.

Good luck!

358 Norma is base on 7 REM , 358 STA on 8 REM mag case

only problem is 357 hight energy cartridge is th ebullet most of the bullet are design for lo wvelocity cartridge as 358 WIN and you get over expansion rather penetration

Bullet BC is not amazing so 358 Norma can deliver enought of enrgy on medium lenght action even if REM700 mag is a long one .

358/338 RUM can be very nice without belt and more smooth feeding

good shooting

DAN TEC

Gib,
I'm sure that the people that say the 340WBY is worth the increase over the 338wmag is worth it would say get the STA. I have a 358 Norma. Several years ago when the STA came out I rebarreled it to STA. I used a 24" barrel. I was only able to get a 100-120fps over my 358 at the most out of that barrel. The recoil and the muzzle blast increase off the bench was very noticable. Never shot it at game. Pulled the barrel and reinstalled the 358. Since then I have switched to a 35 Gibbs. There is no free lunch. You will gain some velocity at the cost of recoil, powder and muzzle blast. What is a little velocity worth to you?

Gib, I had the same decision to make about a year ago, on a M70 action.

I went with the 358 Norma over the STA, for the following reasons.

1. The rifle all-up weighs about 8 pounds, and is meant to carry in grizzly country along streams and such while hunting moose and elk. That means it's in my hands, ready for bear (for bear!), not slung over my shoulder, thus keeping the weight down was important. I'll have nothing to do with a muzzle brake, and wasn't sure I was man enough to enjoy the STA in that configuration.

2. The animals this rifle was designed for are either shot up close, as in bear defense or hunting, OR are large animals. If the bullet drops an extra inch or two on an extended shot at a moose or elks rib cage, who really cares? Or is good enough in the field to hold to the nearest inch at 400 yards?

With my 23" 358 Norma, I can get 2800 fps with 250 grainers, which shoot pretty flat. I'd ask myself if I honestly need more speed than that for the species I intended to hunt.

As far as poor bullet selection, that's a bunch of hooey. Nosler makes two partitions designed to retain more weight than their smaller calibers, Barnes makes a bunch, Swift makes the A-Frames, and my favourite North Fork comes in several bullet weights. There are also a bunch more.

Re case forming, I use 300Win brass to feed my 358 Norma, and it's a snap. Necking up 8 mag brass for the 358 STA would be even easier.

I'm not knocking the STA, I think it's a fabulous cartridge for long range shooting at game, if the person doesn't mind a heavy rifle or a muzzle brake, or is recoil proof enough to shoot it well in a lighter rifle. And IF that slightly flatter trajectory beyond 300 yards will honestly make a difference, which will of course vary according to hunting style and shooters skill.

Gib ----- I shoot two .358 STA's, both have muzzle brakes and are a pleasure to shoot. I have taken several Elk with mine and so has my son. I will not argue the STA vast superiority over the Norma, but there is certainly substantial more powder capacity, thus more of everything that follows. I get 3100 fps from 250 grain bullets, 3200 from 225 grain bullets and 3000 fps from 270 and 280 grain bullets. If you want speed the STA has it. ----- The bullet selection is now very good, and they are not low impact bullets. Barnes, Nosler, Swift A-Frame, Kodiak, and the best North Fork, will stand up to the speeds the Norma or STA will generate. If you want a .358 that will outdo the .375 H&H in all weights, with a better SD, the STA is your huckleberry, if you want a milder variety, the Norma is the answer. Either are fine chamberings for the bigger and more dangerous game fields. Good shooting.

I have a .358 Norma Mag, and it is pretty light for such a powerful round.

This rifle kicks worse than my .375 H&H Mag (presumably the .358 sits in a stock with more drop -- that is about to be changed).

Unless you are willing to put up with a muzzle brake (I'm not), I would not go bigger than a .358 Norma unless you were also willing to haul around a heavier rifle.

The .358 Norma shoots flat enough for any range I can imagine shooting a critter at, so more velocity just pounds me more without a big benefit.

Just my view.... worth twice what you paid for it!

jpb

[ 12-03-2003, 20:38: Message edited by: jpb ]

I second the 358/338ultra.I have had the 358norma,358/300win and the 358sta.All are great cartridges but no fireform on the 330ultra case just neck up.My thinking is if your magazine will take a 3.6" cartridge use it,the recoil isn't that bad on any of those calibers.If you wanted to step up in caliber the 375 ultra is another great caliber.

If you do the RUM, use the 300 case, longer for a better neck and/or more capacity.
John Ricks has a reamer for a 358-404, no rebated rim and about 6-7 more grains more water capacity. The only difference is about $20 to open the boltface. It should get over 3250 fps with a 250g bullet.
But everything said regarding Norma vs STA applies even more so to the Norma vs 358-404. You'll want a little more weight and maybe a little longer barrel, so it will be a different rifle.
Figure out how long you want your barrel, how much weight you want to tote, and how much recoil you can handle skillfully.
Keep in mind, a 7.5# Norma will give you a beating as-is. Maybe 50 ft lb at 20 fps for 250/2800 max.
Make it 9#, and that 358-404, 250/3200 only has about 7 ft lb more. The Norma at 9# might be 40/17 or so, so gun weight is a very important factor here.
To get the benefit of the STA case and up, I wouldn't have less than a 26" tube, but you could get satisfactory performance from a 22" Norma.

Gibb

The 358 Norma works very well out of a 22in. barrel (if you like that sort of thing). You should just squeek 2800fps out of the 250 grain crowd.

The STA is a lot more gun. The question that must be asked is what are the gains? It is my opinion but I don't think the 35 bore is the best choice for long range work. The 35's are sort of like the 9.3's...they just work the way they are.

Those that call the 30-06 versatile should have a hard look at the 358 Norma.

To some of us idiots more is better...I like the STA!!

Smash those little Kansas deer to smithereeeens. .

Jamie

[ 12-04-2003, 09:39: Message edited by: x-man ]

Gib,

I just can't convince you to go the .375 route can I?? Oh well, to each his own. I'll take the classic that works, not saying a STA or Norma won't!! Save a few deer for me. Wyo

wyo-

the norma may not have quite the 'classic' reputation as the 375 H&H, but it still has that classic feel in my mind.

ps- the deer are waiting for ya. My buck tag got filled today so the rest are all yours.

[ 12-06-2003, 12:39: Message edited by: x-man ]