quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
If I were looking for a versatile hunting bullet to be used out to 350 meters in a 30-06, I would first reach for the 168 grain Barnes TTSX.

That would be one of the last bullets I would shoot at deer.

Hmmm, FYI, I've been using the Barnes bullets since 2003, and I've killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-40 deer, both mule deer and whitetails with a 168 TSX and TTSX from my 30.06. This does not include black bears, coyotes, etc. I recall one animal making it more than a step which was a black bear which happen to make it on a dead run downhill about 20 yards. So based on my experience, it's one of the first bullets I'd use with 100% confidence. And by no means am I accusing it of being the perfect bullet. It's just been perfect for me 100% of the time to date. And we have many future dates.

Another vote for the Scirocco.

Whoa Doc, you've kilt 40 deer and sundry other animals and they all (with one exception) dropped in their tracks. Did you have 'em penned up or what?

If I were Gerhard I would look for something accurate and relatively inexpensive for the volume target shooting,and that (hopefully) had the same POI as a more expensive hunting bullet.

For my purposes in the 30/06 that has worked out to be a 165 Sierra with a MV of +-2900 fps,and a 165 Nosler Partition for the hunting bullet;other quality 165 hunting bullets like a Barnes or Swift Aframe would no doubt work as well,but the Partition has worked fine for me on a variety of game from elk down.

The Sierra's tend to be accurate bullets,and are not as expensive as the Partition.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Whoa Doc, you've kilt 40 deer and sundry other animals and they all (with one exception) dropped in their tracks. Did you have 'em penned up or what?

Yes, all penned and strapped to a tree. The bullet hit them in the shoulder. To my surprise even the bear that made it some distance had a broken humerus on the offside but since the hill was so steep it made it about 20 yards downhill. It's the one we didn't get tied up very well.

I'm rather surprised at the number of game I've had drop like they do prior to breaking the shoulder. Years ago I was a "lung" or "rib" guy and aimed just as if I was bowhunting. Most deer just collapsed but a few made it a short distance.

Skip to 3:04. This is what I've been fortunate enough to have happen. DRT.

If you go with the 150 Accubond your trajectory advantage over 180 Ballistic tips will be only 2 inches at 300yds. You can lose at least that much or more in wind drift going to the lighter bullet. If you go with a bullet with a lesser ballistic coefficient than the 150 accubond the trajectory advantage will be less and the wind drift will be even more.

Trajectory is much more repeatable than wind drift. Personally I'd stick with the 180's if they shot most accurately in my rifle.

For impala sized game a 180gr ballistic tip from a 30-06 will probably work just fine. I wouldn't use the lighter ballistic tips in the 30 06 if meat damage is a concern. If you're really worried about it go with the accubond 180 gr. Your load should be identical.

Guys,

Thank you for all the info.

I have desided to go the Nosler route and bought 150gr Ballistic Tips as well as Accubonds.

Load development is still in process but have found a load that groups nice at 2750fps.

Had an oppertunity to go and visit friends last week that needed 6 blesbok antelopes for meat.

Confirmed the Accubonds shoot at the same point of impact as the BT's.

Stalked the 1st blesbok (Highveld grass is ankle lenght) gave him a hart shot at 110m and he dropped at the shot.

Idea of the terrain.



Moved him into a small bit of shade.

I saw another two blesbucks around 800m away and planned a stalk.

As I finally got with in a 150m from them I saw there were more animals lying down.

One blesbuck offered me a side on head shot.

I felt comfortable taking the shot from the bi pods.

At the shot the other blesbucks jumped up not knowing where the shot came from.

In less than 30 seconds I had 5 blesbucks on the ground.

4 of them shot in the chest. All of them dropped when shot.

I am very happy with the Accubonds meat damage was minimal.

Gerhard: Thanks for the interesting report! I haven't take a blesbok, but they appear to be an animal of perhaps 70-80 kg on the hoof, or about 150-175 lbs? This would be roughly equal to a larger N.A. whitetail buck or a medium mule deer.

Glad to hear that the Accubond performed as predicted (both ballistically and in terminal performance). Now you can swap at will between the Accubond when hunting and the slightly less expensive Ballistic Tip when shooting targets.

Not too many bad bullets in 30 caliber. They've pretty much been weeded out. Find one in your price range that shoots well and go for it. I like Nosler Partitions, CoreLocts and Nosler BTs personally.

So far I have hunted a lot with 180grs Nosler Partition and BT - both having the same POI with my rifle and so I could choose the softer or harder bullet, but the difference I had was only a bit less meat dmage with the PT - both worked great, killed on the spot and are precise enough flying for hunting (20mm groups for 5 shots)

I have shot the 150gr BT's into a sand back stop.

Was able to recover 2 of them...







Now I know sand is a tough medium to shoot a bullet into.

But these BT's are a bit to soft for hunting unless its head and high neck shots during culling...

When using the 30-06 on mule deer and elk, elk being the largest game I used an 06 on, I used 180 grain bullets with little preference for any particular make or shape. They were all hand loaded and did quite good. At the time to my knowledge Barnes' originals and Nosler PTs were the only premium bullets. Neither was thought, right or wrong, to be needed at 06 velocities.Of course all this game has gotten a lot tougher through the years. roger

quote:

But these BT's are a bit to soft for hunting unless its head and high neck shots during culling...

Well, depends on what you're hunting. Weight retention around the 60% area, which is what these exhibit even in sand, isn't that shabby. Insofar as penetration, I think you'll find that the "solid base" of jacket material on the Ballistic Tip provides surprisingly deep penetration relative to its apparent expansiveness.

For game up to the 90kg/200lb range, I have full confidence in the 150 grain Ballistic Tip. When a variety of game, some of it larger, may be encountered it certainly makes sense to use the Accubond.

We hunt with the 150 Nosler BT and AB.

the shoot to the Same POI in 2 different Rem 700 BDS and one New Mod 70 Win.

The AB is a good bonded bullet.

But

Then again, we tend to hunt with BTs

Great thread. Thanks for starting it.

TSX. If you're willing to go to 180g, A-Square Dead Tough.

Good hunting.

i agree with butchloc. 165gr partition on top of either 4350 or imr4350 will do it all.

Again,

Thank you for all the inputs.

I will keep posting here as the hunting season progress.

How about giving these a try ..?


https://cuttingedgebullets.com...&key=ESP_C130_RAPTOR

PAPI

Do the tips come in different colours so's you can colour coordinate it with your mcswirly stock?

quote:

Do the tips come in different colours so's you can colour coordinate it with your mcswirly stock?

To be perfectly honest.. I don't know for sure, as I haven't done much Highpower Shooting / Reloading / Hunting / recently, with my;
" M1 Garand or Rem 700 30/06 "



PAPI


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Visited the range again today with new loads...

1st load came close to what I want at 100m with the 150 gr BT's



2nd load hit the sweet spot @ 3050fps

Shot another group at 100m with the 150gr Nosler BT at 3050fps

I will now start to work on loads for the 150gr Barnes TSX.

Any idea if i will be able to hit 2900fps?

Work with 165 gr Partitions and Btips. I shot a whitetail at 10 yds with the Btip when they first came out just to see if they would stay together at 06 velocity up close. Got an exit wound but it was messy. My 06 will shoot 165 gr Noslers and 180 almost in the same poi at 100 yds so can switch without rezero. Looking at you landscape I believe 165 grns would be my pick. Grand old cartridge, the 06!

Never was big on using a 150 grain in the 30.06. It seemed more compatible with the 308 with less case capacity? In the 30.06 I tend to start with the 165 grain bullets primarily the Hornady 165 BTSP. MY other 30.06 likes the 165 Ballistic Tips. I don't know what kind of performance to expect because of all the fast opening and blow ups on hides, game lost ect I hear. My buddy uses a 140 BT out of his 7 Rem mag using a grain more powder than recommended max and hasn't had an issue killing deer. I will wait to see how this BT does. For bigger game may go to a 168 barnes or 180 partition.

quote:

My buddy uses a 140 BT out of his 7 Rem mag using a grain more powder than recommended max and hasn't had an issue killing deer.

That's interesting. When the balistic Tips first caame out and were 100 bullets to the boc, I shot a fair sized Desert Mule Deer at about 75 yards with a 7x57 mauser cartridge. Bullet was loaded to 2800 FPS at the muzzle and it blew up on a rib. Sad to say the deer was laost, partly because I trashed a knee climbing up to where the deer was when I shot. Dunno if the bullet even penetrated at all and my two hunting partners were more concerned about getting me off that hill and to a doctor that trying to find that deer. I could have sat where I was and waited but they didn't want to do that. However, I saw where the bullet hit and there was a wide red spot so i'm thinking the bullet blew up when it hit a rib and didn't go in. Probably just bad luck I suppose but I'll not use those bullets on agame again.
Paul b.

I don't consider the Ballistic Tip a big game bullet. It is great for fur; accurate and blows up.

I don't understand why anyone would want to use a Ballistic Tip on big game when they can use the Accubond which is just as accurate and designed for big game.

Personally my choice on deer would be either the Accubond or the Barnes TTSX. The Accubond is going to make a slightly bigger mess and that can be expected.

For moose and elk? Barnes, without question. The penetration factor is so much greater with the Barnes product and they expand perfectly for hemmorage.

I read somewhere a while back about bullet testing using the Barnes vs. other popular brands. The test was Perma Gel blocks then the end had 2 semi mud flaps. The author wanted to comment on the TTSX bullet but couldn't because the bullet had blown completely through the block and both mud flaps. He never recovered a single Barnes bullet.

Every animal I have shot with the Barnes Triple Shocks has dropped without even taking a step on complete double lung pass through's.

I've shot elk, antelope and deer with Accubond's... and elk, antelope and deer with Ballistic Tips. I've never seen any difference.

However, I've never had a rifle that shot Accubonds more accurately than Ballistic Tips.

Triple Shoks are great... right up to the time they don't open. And I didn't "read" anything to know that.

Ditto on the BTs for deer sized stuff. Work great. Haven't tried them on anything bigger.

Btips are some of the most accurate hunting bullets available. To date, I still have more experience with those bullets than any other. 100% success on deer and smaller. Wouldn't hesitate to continue their use.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
I've shot elk, antelope and deer with Accubond's... and elk, antelope and deer with Ballistic Tips. I've never seen any difference.

You really need to give more information. What caliber and at what speeds?

No doubt a 30-06 with a 180 grain Ballistic Tip for example, is going to perform nearly identical to a 180 grain Accubond from the same gun. Now push that bullet to 3300 from a 300 Ultra and the results are going to be different.

The Accubond was designed to have the accuracy of the Ballistic Tip yet retain big game expansion qualities at magnum velocity.

quote:

However, I've never had a rifle that shot Accubonds more accurately than Ballistic Tips.

Are you saying they are the same in accuracy?

quote:

Triple Shoks are great... right up to the time they don't open. And I didn't "read" anything to know that.

TTSX bullets open perfectly. I have read your experiences with the Barnes in the past and am inclined to believe you have vested interests to bash Barnes.

quote:

No doubt a 30-06 with a 180 grain Ballistic Tip for example, is going to perform nearly identical to a 180 grain Accubond from the same gun. Now push that bullet to 3300 from a 300 Ultra and the results are going to be different.

Cory hit on a couple of important items here. The Accubonds are designed to be as accurate as the BT's, but I find the BT's to shoot a little better then the accubonds. I think it's something in the bonding process.

With BT's it's more important to watch your impact velocity. If you expect to have impact velocites over 3k, the Accubond is the way to go.

The heavy BT's are extremely deadly. They are accurate, open fast, and have the enough mass to penetrate. They leave big deep holes, and wide, short, blood trails...

I have hunted another 4 blesbuck the last month or so...

This is a Accubond 150gr recovered from a blesbuck ram. Shot at 200 meters



Never got to weigh it lost it from my pack during the last stalk...



I will not use BTs on game unless I can take a head shot like this one

At your velocities the BT's will work fine.
But there is no arguing with your sucess with the AB's. Both are great bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
At your velocities the BT's will work fine.
But there is no arguing with your sucess with the AB's. Both are great bullets.

No doubt BT will kill an antelope... But BT are way to soft and will cause a lot of meat damage unless high neck shots or head shots are taken.

A bonded bullet will word a lot better. I will test Barnes TTSX 150gr as well as expect even better results.

Just a side note here:
For years I used a Sierra 180 Gameking bullet out of my 30/06, load was 56 grains IMR 4350, WW cases, CCI primer going about 2750fps from my 22" barrelled 30/06. The load killed tons of Mule Deer, Antelope and Elk as well as a Bighorn Sheep and a Mountain Goat. All exits no recovered bullets to weigh and everybody claims Sierra's are "too soft". One year I switched to the 180 grain Accubond when they first entered the scene. Accuracy was good so I used them on a bull elk, broadside 180 yards, I killed the bull but was shocked that I recovered a 114 grain bullet on the offside, then I helped my son put his elk down by taking a raking shot at 35 yards or so, it entered behind the last rib and lodged in the base of the neck when recovered it was a bullet base and fragments never weighed it but a guess would be 60 grains? maybe.
I then went back to the Sierra's 180 grain Gameking because I always expect it to exit from 35 yard impact to 425 yard impact, it has never let me down.

Sierra's wont work on Africa game

Don't be afraid to try the 165gr Hornady BTSP or the Nosler Accubond if you can use them in your competition.

I found in my '06 the BT (Accubond should fly the same) bucked the wind very well and was very accurate, my second choice would be the Hornady BTSP. They shot well, have a high B.C. and didn't drift quite as much in wind.

"If I were Gerhard I would look for something accurate and relatively inexpensive for the volume target shooting,and that (hopefully) had the same POI as a more expensive hunting bullet."

While I know you've already picked what you think you want to use, just a thought. You rifle sems to really like 180 gr. bullets. You're shooting game and apparently some target competition as well. I'm wondering just how well loads with the 180 gr. Sierra Game King and 180 gr. Siera match bullet would work?
A couple of years back I shot a Pronhorn Antelope using a .270 Win. and the 150 gr. Sierra Game King at 2950 FPS muzzle velocity. The shot was taken at 75 yards after about a half mile stalk. The bullet entered the lft side at thesecond to the last rib, breaking it and exited just behind the right shoulds. The antelope wheeled around, staggered in a 30 foot half circle and expired. Now that bullet was vey accurate but my pointwas is was a lot faster than an 06 would push the also very accurate 180 gr. Game Kings and if the 180 gr. match bullet worked with basically the same load? Might be worth looking into. Meat desruction from that .270 was minimal which surprised the hell out of me. I've always heard boattail bullets were more destructive of eating meat. Probably might have been if I'd hit the shoulder and an example of one doesn't mean very much.
Paul B.