I have been thinking about a light-medium bore since I already have a heavy rifle and a medium. I want a rifle with punch.

I have looked at both the .338 Lazz and the .338 A-Square and find them to be virtually identical. The dimensions as follows:
Lazz and A-Square respectively.
Base: 0.581 vs 0.582
Shoulder: 0.563 vs 0.553
Case length (max): 2.82 vs 2.85
Base to Shoulder: 2.3050 vs 2.30
Base to base of neck: 2.466 vs 2.433
Shoulder length: 0.161 vs 0.133
Neck Length: 0.354 vs 0.417 (!)

Pressures (max) again Lazz vs A-Square, Lazz using 27" with a 1:12" twist and A-square using 26" with a 1:10" twist.

200gr NoslerBT 111gr Rl-25 3475fps 54,400 CUP
250gr Swift AF 103gr Rl-25 3154fps 55,900 CUP

A-Square:
200gr NoslerBT 105gr 7828 3360fps 60,900 PSI
250gr SierraBT 120gr A8700 3120 @ 61,600 PSI

Now A-square in their book lists max pressures in both CUP and PSI. They are 54,000 CUP and 65,000 PSI respectively. While I know full well there is no linearity between the different methods, at points with different methods it gives us a good "idea" of where things are pressure wise. Using A-Squares maxes I see Lazz running around 67,286 PSI for their max load with the 250 grain bullet. Max load I saw was at 56,400 CUP which is in the area of 67900 PSI.

This leads me to believe there really isn't any difference between the two. Also, since I can find Weatherby brass almost anywhere and Lazz available from only one source (expensive too) I should go with the A-Square.

I have wondered though, I thought more case capacity would give less pressures. When I look at the commercial reloading pages I see the .338/378 Weath. is not living up to expectations. It really isn't any better than the Lapua and vica versa. Also, a .340 Weath with a longer barrel would appear to be able to catch both. Consequently I am still on hold about the idea of lengthening the body of the A-Sq. a little. I had thought of going 0.05" extra body to 2.350" which would shorten the neck length to 0.367". Still plenty to hold the bullet. I would also take the shoulder out to 0.563 like the Lazz. If I did that it would be custom and cost ~$200 for reamers. If I left everything the same I could have the reamer rented for $50.00.

I was thinking a barrel around 29-30", chromoly (I don't like looks of stainless) with muzzle around 0.850" and heavily fluted. I would have the barrel in front of the receiver cylindrical for about 4 inches for extra support by bedding it. The rest floated. Should I have an extra lug installed so I can put another screw into the barrel ala CZ?

Any comments appreciated, thanks.

------------------

Take a look at the 338 Lapua. Can be had in the Sako TRG-S

hkr,
Thank you, I did look at the .338 Lapua, .338/378 Weath and .338 RUM. They are running approximately 2950-2985 fps.

Either the Lazz or A-Sq I can go 3120fps in safe pressure zones 26" tube. With the 30" I would be pushing close to 3200fps and using all the gasses made by those heavy powder charges.

Roger you have to ask yourself if the extra 300~400fps is worth a shorter barrel life.

Roger.....one note about the brass. Lazzeroni brass is expensive but with reasonable care and periodic annealing it will last you forever..60 pieces will last longer than the life of your barrel for sure.

My brother in law has shot some great groups at a 1000 yards with his 24 inch barrel 300 Win Mag. trucking along at 3100fps with a 180 grain bullet. Now that gun shoots 1/2 inch 5 shot groups at a 100 yards using Sierra's 190 BT. It is not bad on the body shooting from the bench either.

Roger - If you are relying on the Lazzeroni performance data, consider this - all of their velocity data is based on "special" diameter bullets and their bullet coating process. In the real world, your velocities will be different unless you intend purchasing all your ammo from them. ($$$$$)

However, with the Lazzeroni and the Lapua cases you get rid of the belt - this feature is much more important to me than a few FPS.

Or you can go with the 338-416 Rigby. Basically a 338-378 without the belt. All the case capacity you could ever want, and yes, 3200 with 250 gr bullets is possible. FWIW - Dan

If you are thinking of shooting from a bipod the .338 Lazzeroni and a Square are punishing. I like the .300 H&H with 200 grs bullets. If more is desired I would reccomend the 8x68. I believe that you should limit your shots to 300m so the super mags look pretty redundant. I have never seen most of the .33 cals perform well any way.

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the replies. Here are my thoughts.

I would have thought the .338/378 to be a screamer with safe pressures. From the commercial reloading pages it doesn't want to push a 250 grainer faster than 2950fps or so. The .338 Lapua is approxiamtely the same case capacity. From Lapua's page it too goes about 2985 fps. Both of these cases are quite a bit larger than the Lazz or A-Sq.

The .338 Lazz is virtually identical to the A-Sq which preceeded it. I think Mr. Lazzeroni saw a good thing and decided to run with the idea.
Both the pressures in these cases are almost the same, with the Lazz slightly higher. I think that is how it gets the extra 25fps.
Also, 3120-3150 isn't too hot at all in velocity department. Meaning, the barrel burners seem to begin around 3400.
I emailed Mr. Lazzeroni and he assured me with intelligent shooting practices and good cleaning technique the .308 Warbird would go well over 1000 rds without problems.
I looked at the .300's and my best (practical) bet would be the .300 Winnie but jeez...everyone has one of those.
I looked at a couple of "sniper" forums and there are some good recommendations for the Winchester "Stealth" rifle. I could have it rechambered to .300 WSM with a tight neck and shoot bugholes.
I am still in thought stage. I have to buy a rifle first and rebarrel. Rifle would be $650.00 or so, tricked out Kreiger ready to install another $600.00. Then $400-500 for 'smiths labor. Then dies $200.00. I will have to wait and see how things go this summer.

------------------

[This message has been edited by Roger Rothschild (edited 03-12-2002).]

There is also the 338 Excaliber, by a square. - Dan

Dan you're trying to tear me apart ,
Then I would be truly being pulled in two directions. If A-Sq was up, running and happy-happy joy-joy customers which would I get? Lazz or Excal?
At least if I go the .338 A-Sq I can walk into most any well stocked gunshop and find .378 Weath brass, run them into forming dies, cut off excess, inside ream and git to the range.

------------------

Roger, a company called Quality Cartridge is supposed to be making brass for the A-square cartridges now. At least that's what is on their site. I haven't tried any of it, but I want to build a big 35 wildcat and I'm thinking of using that brass. I mean really, for something like this, once you have a hundred brass, you're pretty much set for life. FWIW - Dan